I was wondering with regard to straights, the pros and cons of honing on a stone versus sharpening with paste on a strop. I'd really appreciate the help, thanks.
Honing vs. Sharpening paste/paddle strop
- Thread starter Lucky7
- Start date
That depends on the edge you start out with. If you have a dull razor, it is best to use a stone like a Norton 4K/8K to get your razor shaving sharp. Then you can move on to a finishing stone like a coticule, eschers, 12K chinese, etc. to give you an even finer edge. Pastes and diamond compounds are used after a finer stone by some individuals and also to maintain a sharp edge when your razor begins to pull.
hones - take a dull edge put back on the bevel and hone it up to sharp. needed for heavy work on any kind of restorations, dings, ebays etc etc.
pastes - almost always finer grits, used for putting that very delicate and sharp finishing touches to your edges so that they feel velvety smooth. pasted are also often used as "touch up" honing after 10'ish shaves when you start to feel that velvety goodness has started to fade.
pastes will keep your already shaving sharp blade very sharp for a long time. but eventually you will need to take it back to a stone to hone that bevel back into condition. couple times a year.
hones/stones do the big work. create/restore/produce and refine your bevel/edge
pasted are used very much as a finishing ultra fine step to produce that smooth and velvety feeling...and this included touch ups.
~J
ps. the pros/cons to them as per your question. its really more of - they are used in conjunction with one another to produce the edges people are wanting.
pastes - almost always finer grits, used for putting that very delicate and sharp finishing touches to your edges so that they feel velvety smooth. pasted are also often used as "touch up" honing after 10'ish shaves when you start to feel that velvety goodness has started to fade.
pastes will keep your already shaving sharp blade very sharp for a long time. but eventually you will need to take it back to a stone to hone that bevel back into condition. couple times a year.
hones/stones do the big work. create/restore/produce and refine your bevel/edge
pasted are used very much as a finishing ultra fine step to produce that smooth and velvety feeling...and this included touch ups.
~J
ps. the pros/cons to them as per your question. its really more of - they are used in conjunction with one another to produce the edges people are wanting.
Its all about the grit baby.
Seriously though, you can get hones in every grit/coarseness from too coarse to use on a razor to as fine as any paste.
If you have a razor in need of serious work - e-bay special, new razor without a great factory bevel, etc., you're going to want to go to a stone the "standard" stone in North America is the Norton 4000/8000. Lots of folks use Begian blue 4000 and yellow 8000 (approxmiate grits). Natural stones sharpen differently than synthetics and use a slurry, which some believe provides a smoother edge - I make no comment either way. There are also lots of other waterstones, ceramic stones, among others in a dizzying array of grits and each with their own pros/cons.
As for keeping an already sharp razor, most people seem to like pasted strops (paddle strops as oppsed to hanging strops generally). You can get a wide variety of pasts, but for maintenance, the favoured pastes tend to be 0.5 and/or 0.25 micron diamond paste and chromium oxide (which is about 0.5 microns). Again there are fans of both.
Less used are barber's hones in extra-fine grits, some examples include Swatys, Apart, among others. Barber's hones are a little less predictible in the sense that, unless you know exactly what you're getting, you won't necessarily know how a hone will work - which is why the Swaty is often mentioned, as its more common than lots of others, but there are lots of good finishing hones out there.
If you're just starting out, the pasted paddle is often easiest since it uses the same technique as daily stropping. Honing is a completely different technique and its easier to screw up the edge since its an edge-leading stroke.
I suspect I've just made things more confusing, but if you're a newbie and have a razor that's been honed/made shave-ready by someone who knows what they're doing, I would suggest a paddle strop - some of the best are made by Tony Miller (thewellshavedgentleman.com) and he sells two and four-sided strops in a variety of widths and will pre-paste with the diamond and/or chromium pastes of your choice.
Seriously though, you can get hones in every grit/coarseness from too coarse to use on a razor to as fine as any paste.
If you have a razor in need of serious work - e-bay special, new razor without a great factory bevel, etc., you're going to want to go to a stone the "standard" stone in North America is the Norton 4000/8000. Lots of folks use Begian blue 4000 and yellow 8000 (approxmiate grits). Natural stones sharpen differently than synthetics and use a slurry, which some believe provides a smoother edge - I make no comment either way. There are also lots of other waterstones, ceramic stones, among others in a dizzying array of grits and each with their own pros/cons.
As for keeping an already sharp razor, most people seem to like pasted strops (paddle strops as oppsed to hanging strops generally). You can get a wide variety of pasts, but for maintenance, the favoured pastes tend to be 0.5 and/or 0.25 micron diamond paste and chromium oxide (which is about 0.5 microns). Again there are fans of both.
Less used are barber's hones in extra-fine grits, some examples include Swatys, Apart, among others. Barber's hones are a little less predictible in the sense that, unless you know exactly what you're getting, you won't necessarily know how a hone will work - which is why the Swaty is often mentioned, as its more common than lots of others, but there are lots of good finishing hones out there.
If you're just starting out, the pasted paddle is often easiest since it uses the same technique as daily stropping. Honing is a completely different technique and its easier to screw up the edge since its an edge-leading stroke.
I suspect I've just made things more confusing, but if you're a newbie and have a razor that's been honed/made shave-ready by someone who knows what they're doing, I would suggest a paddle strop - some of the best are made by Tony Miller (thewellshavedgentleman.com) and he sells two and four-sided strops in a variety of widths and will pre-paste with the diamond and/or chromium pastes of your choice.
Very debatable subject based mostly on subjectivity and the experience level of the user. I think of honing as honing and the differences I see are:
Its easier to back hone on a stone
Its easier to learn on a paddle strop
A paddle strop often comes with a leather strop on an opposing side
Its cheaper to buy 4 grits for a paddle than 4 grits of stone
A stoned edge lasts longer than a paddled edge (this one may depend on user abilities)
In my opinion, in a perfect world, you would be patient enough to learn both and hone on the stone followed by a little paste of very high grit to perfect the edge and/or use the paddle on a shave ready razor as you learn the more complex art of honing on a stone.
That said, I only use a stone.
I should also add, while I'm here, that using a paddle with a high grit paste can compensate for what would otherwise be lower quality stropping on the finishing leather. I find that stropping takes much more skill than we give it credit for and that having a paddle strop with a light paste compensates well for this deficiency, as this is a stropping action as well.
Its easier to back hone on a stone
Its easier to learn on a paddle strop
A paddle strop often comes with a leather strop on an opposing side
Its cheaper to buy 4 grits for a paddle than 4 grits of stone
A stoned edge lasts longer than a paddled edge (this one may depend on user abilities)
In my opinion, in a perfect world, you would be patient enough to learn both and hone on the stone followed by a little paste of very high grit to perfect the edge and/or use the paddle on a shave ready razor as you learn the more complex art of honing on a stone.
That said, I only use a stone.
I should also add, while I'm here, that using a paddle with a high grit paste can compensate for what would otherwise be lower quality stropping on the finishing leather. I find that stropping takes much more skill than we give it credit for and that having a paddle strop with a light paste compensates well for this deficiency, as this is a stropping action as well.
- Thread starter
- #6
Wow, guys those were awsome replies. I've picked up alot. I gather that I'm eventually going to need both. I've taken a look at thewellshavedgentleman foursided prepasted strop, and it looks like a good deal. And the norton 4k/8k seem the way to go as well. Does anyone have tips for getting tthese so I don't have to sell a kidney, other than sending it out. I only have one razor, so sending it out would probably mean not shaving w/ a straight, which I want to avoid, since I tend to get rusty real fast.
I would seriously consider getting another razor so you'll have a backup in case the one you have suddenly fails or you have to send it out for honing. Unfortunately there are no discount places I'm aware of who sell Norton's. There are some cheaper alternatives, some chinese stones and I think Shapton sells a glass hones with a abrasive coating on it. but in the end you get what you pay for.
If you are going to be shaving with a straight for the long haul it would benefit you to learn to hone and get the right gear.
If you are going to be shaving with a straight for the long haul it would benefit you to learn to hone and get the right gear.
A couple of suggestions (in some case you've heard it before).
1) Buy one more shave-ready razor - keep an eye out on the buy/sell forums here or SRP, lots of folks sell shave-ready razors for $35 to $45.
2) Buy a practice razor - you will more than likey screw up the edges of your "good razor" if you try to hone it without practicing first on another razor - honing is not easy - this will only cost you a couple of bucks and if you ask real nice, the person you buy a shave-ready razor from may have a junker or two lying around that they'll throw in for a nominal fee and for the same shipping (usually costs the same to ship two razors as it does one).
3) If you can shave with the razor you have, a paddle strop is all you need for now - especially if you get a 4-sided one. Even if you keep one side with plain leather for daily stropping, you'll still get three grits and you can do amazing things with 3, 1 (diamond) and .5 (chromium) - send Tony a note and he'll hook you up.
So, if you're trying to do this on the cheap, you just need a pasted strop for now - you might be able to get a used paddle from someone cheap - so long as they can put some fresh paste on it, you're in business and you won't have to wory so much about wrecking a brand new paddle (its very easy to nick or cut a strop before you get the hang of things ). I would still recommend a second shave-ready razor.
If you decide to take the plunge and buy a hone, I would strongly suggest practicing on a junker before you take your shaving razors to the hone. A Norton 4/8 and a pasted paddle are all you need to keep your razors in shaving condition indefinitely. Most of us have more, but that's got nothing to do with need.
Hope this helps.
- Thread starter
- #9
Thanks , it surely does
let me throw out a suggestion:
get a hanging strop for your normal daily stropping needs. Tony's are wonderful.
get a 2 sided pasted bench hone. (1.0 and 0.5) this will allow u to get slightly larger width while keeping cost down. Tony used to make pasted bench hones. which to me look very much like this 2sided paddles but without the handle. to keep your costs down, call tony and ask him if he has any left or if he'll make ya one and the cost. i bet it will be cheaper then that handled version for the reason of less hardware. i have one and love it. and no, i personally wouldn't want a handle on it. i use it just like a hone, lay it down, it sits on one of those no slip rug foam vented pad things, get in front of it and hone (ofcouse edge trailing though). these wide bench hones make it so very easy to do.
ya, a norton combo stone can do alot of things and is consistant. if you want to learn to hone razors and be self sufficient, its a good idea also.
~J
get a hanging strop for your normal daily stropping needs. Tony's are wonderful.
get a 2 sided pasted bench hone. (1.0 and 0.5) this will allow u to get slightly larger width while keeping cost down. Tony used to make pasted bench hones. which to me look very much like this 2sided paddles but without the handle. to keep your costs down, call tony and ask him if he has any left or if he'll make ya one and the cost. i bet it will be cheaper then that handled version for the reason of less hardware. i have one and love it. and no, i personally wouldn't want a handle on it. i use it just like a hone, lay it down, it sits on one of those no slip rug foam vented pad things, get in front of it and hone (ofcouse edge trailing though). these wide bench hones make it so very easy to do.
ya, a norton combo stone can do alot of things and is consistant. if you want to learn to hone razors and be self sufficient, its a good idea also.
~J
Could I suggest a Wapienica NOS from Woj on ebay? It's a fantastic value at about $11.00! At that price, I bought 2 and do not regret it at all. There are plenty of threads about these great razors on StraightRazorPlace.com to back me up on this one. The only gripe is that the scales are made of Carbon Steel creating a bit of an imbalance weight wise. They hone up easily and shave great. Great for practice and daily use IMHO.
I looked for these at a number of places. The local retailer wanted $120 for a 3" wide 4/8K, which is a bit stiff, so I searched the web and got mine from a place which sells fine woodworking tools. the Norton stones are highly regarded for sharpening chisels. The Norton 4/8K in 8"x3"x1" size is $65 - very reasonable. Try www.craftsmanstudio.com
Daedalus
Daedalus
With the cheapest shipping added, that place cost me $78 shipped. Holbren.com sells it for $72.95 shipped here. It used to be $62.95 shipped but they raised their price.
- Thread starter
- #15
Thanks guys. I really appreciate the time you took researching that. As soon as I get a handle on st8 shaving in general, I'm probably throwing down for the stone and a double sided paddle. Everyone's gotta start somewhere. I figure I should get my feet wet with the honing, sooner the better. As for the hanging strop, I actually have a small Col. Conk (did I misspell that?), that's what one side reads, with canvas on one side, standard on the other. Danke!
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