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Discussion in 'Hones/Honing' started by learnintheropes, May 13, 2019.
I know this is done to test speed but really... it is not necessary in any form.
Wow. That... just wow.
No, I don't hone like that unless I'v'e a concussion.
You cannot tell exactly from that angle but I'm fairly sure the first stone - the coticule - is convexed, which is the Solingen grinders' guild way of doing razor honing. This was also practised in Sheffield I'm told (I did once come across a cache on convex stones down South, including the SIC stone used to make them).
The honing technique in Solingen is evidently... ahem... "modified" for this type of stone. The second stone is, I assume, a Thuri of some sort, or maybe a hard Ark from way back. Whatever it is it's a whopper, but looks flat, unlike the first one.
They do it like that at Dovo as well (see vid). I have occasionally tried the "lopsided X stroke", sortof like the one he does in the original video.
Might explain why so many say their Dovo is not shave ready
The first looks synthetic to me, but maybe a coticule. The second does look suspiciously like a giant Thuri. I’m jealous.
I don't see it that way at all.
We all know there are many ways to hone and many who are actually experts (meaning they do it a lot and/or their edges are always super sharp). Many of these experts from the videos we can watch showing what they are actually doing when they hone do everything in ways which conflict with how their peers do things. Their strokes are different, the stones they use are different, what they say about what they're doing is different. Everything is not the same but the edges are sharp.
"Honing’s about what you’re feeling with any one part of the edge at any one time on any one part of the stone."
What I hear Jarrod saying here resonates with me because I think he's describing something which seems correct and true to me. I don't hear very many people saying this, but, reading between the lines of what some experts say, I think they're saying feel is one of the ways they monitor what they're doing when honing.
Of more importance to me is what I notice as I hone. Part of what I notice and think I should pay more attention to is exactly what I believe Jarrod is talking about.
If it is gospel it's because it's true and not because some expert said it. Some of what experts say is too idiosyncratic for me to believe all they say could possibly be gospel. I'm interested in what works, either universally or for me. My guess is you agree and are interested in the same.
I’m saying the same as your last paragraph. You said it better.
Not everyone who has a honing video is an expert - far from it! I have seen many horrible honing videos.
I'm not sure anyone else feels this way romanticizing about how one particular part of a razor feels on any one particular part of a hone at any one particular time. Its kind of silly to me. Most people who are actually good at honing and have a lot of experience show many of the same characteristics while honing. Using different stones is irrelevant, fact is, many who have honed for a long time use many different hones as the razor will dictate this much of the time.
Yes ,it has to make sense to you for you to be able to see value in it.
Who quantifies this?
I have a book used for training Barbers how to hone and shave patrons and it is incredible how many people dismiss what's in it. How is this not Gospel? It was written for the Barbering trade.
Fact is, there is an obscene amount of crap information out there. Poor technique and still getting passible results is still poor technique that would not work for most so where is the value in that?
Got my attention.
Whats the title of this book?
The Standardized Textbook of Barbering. I have the forth edition. 1950. Started in 1931, first edition.
I have referenced it many times on this forum. Great book. With so many opinions nowadays with the internet the way it is, its hard to find good proven text that was used to teach those who used these tools for a living.
For me it is the undisputable truth (the gospel if you will) in terms of how to do the things we do. This particular edition was the one my own Barber used in school back in the 60's. As with all books for school, the classroom and hands on training go with it. But this book was used to teach Barbers.
I have this book (above).
The book you mention sounds like it's worth owning, too, but not easily found at a good price. I may have a digital copy but I can't find it right now. I know I've read a good bit of old barbering stuff. Much of it is very good. Some seems less good, but who am I to know what's good.
I decided to find a print copy of the book you suggested. Found one that wasn't out of sight in cost and ordered it. I like these old barber texts.
Thanks for the review of it.
Seems to me we're mostly in agreement here.
I'm not sure that anyone is romanticizing how one part of the edge feels on the stone at any time during the honing. Certainly I'm not. I don't believe Jarrod is either, but I don't know the gentleman. All I know about him is he has a good reputation as a professional honer, he sells shaving stuff at his store in Jacksonville and online, and he puts out the occasional video. I talked to him on the phone for a minute once trying to order a coticule and got the quick impression he's far from romantic about anything in life (I think he's cynical but it was a quick conversation).
To me the tactile feedback provided by my fingers and hands tells me a lot. Mostly it gives me some information about what's going on between the various parts of my edge and the stone. It's nothing more than feedback which guides the honing.
Sellers are going to promote their opinions and products as they should. At least with the gentleman you mentioned, he’s a known seller. It’s the eBay sellers of stones and razors that trash retailers that we must hold with suspicion. I’ve heard good things about and from Jarrod. He’s in a tough business and his name is on the line 24/7.
I like the old books too!
There is no online version of mine. I have found 2 copies from "Abes books" for quite reasonable. One still had the barbers studying papers in it for tests, - awesome.
Standardized Textbook of Barbering, Part 1-2.
I have purchased and reviewed briefly this book.
The 3rd edition.
I found precious little in the book which helped me in terms of the things I was interested in - honing, stropping, and shaving myself - and am surprised you recommended the book.
Most of the book - from about page 79 though about page 330 - is concerned with "Barber Science," which is more or less the low level basic science of the barbering trade. It's not too bad for what it is, but what it is is quite dated.
The first section of the book, up to about page 75, concerns "The Practice of Barbering," but only the first 43 pages are concerned with anything I believe would be interesting to most of us (we're interested in shaving, not hair cutting and such). I see almost nothing not generally known in the B&B community.
In my opinion, this book was a waste of my money, but I would like to ask why you think it is valuable much less gospel? Perhaps there are nuggets I failed to pick up.
I am certainly not saying that barbers don't learn a great deal in their training, probably a huge amount more than this textbook might lead one to believe. I suspect much of what is learned is communicated by the on the job training involved and not by book learning.
As I mentioned it went hand in hand with classroom work.
Yes all of this is known to B&B but there is so much crap as well that is perceived to be "gospel".
Indeed it has nothing to do with shaving yourself, why would a Barber be taught how to shave himself as opposed to a patron? You are missing the point of the book!
It is not hugely in depth by any stretch when it comes to honing or stropping and you won't find it published in that depth by any Barbering association, but the basics are there.
You won't see any "circles" while honing'.
From proper prep of the face, the hair structure itself to the reason for stropping in the first place, why you hone the way that is shown, how to test an edge both after honing and stropping as well as the history of the barber profession are interesting.
This although known is in print for the student. It is the ONLY book known to be used for the profession and written by the Barbering Association specifically for teaching. THIS makes whatever is in it "Gospel" to me.
I've seen books referenced here written by no Named author spouting incorrect information about how to prep and shave yourself.
Where is the value in that? Should that be taken as legitimate good information? I don't think so.
Yep its all on the internet and maybe you forget the time we live in but what sorts fact from fiction?
The Barber science I find quite interesting. The nerves in the face and head that the Barber presses during the shave has purpose.
Skin condition was indicative of possible problems so helping with that was part of what they did. From facials to light therapy to diet as well as giving natural treatments for such things has value.
Sorry you did not like it. I like mine very much.
Mine looks nothing like yours by the way but if it is the 3rd edition it should be basically the same.
While you may not want to learn to cut hair, that is what the majority of Barbering is.
Finding a book by the Barbing profession for Barbers based solely on honing and stropping does not exist. This is inclusive to everything.
This book would have the same information. A.B Moler was instrumental in the founding and had the first Barbering school.
The only online version I have found is here :
The barbers' manual
I have this book also. The same as pictured.
I suspect this is much like deciding to read a book and then trying to tear down and rebuild a diesel engine. Much of what we are doing as shavers is learn. Often the posts are a hinderance or confusion. Not everyone has the capacity to teach. Others can mentor and make what appears complicated, simple. Teaching is an amazing skill. Still others appear to purposefully show out with the knowledge they've acquired.