Honing Newbie, basics!

[mmrmm]

Sharpie is great for my own practice for sure! I want to do it a few more times before I start with the real deal. Perhaps even sometimes during the process just to ensure I am covering the surface with the same pressure. Sharpie addict now!

The bevel is non-existing, does not cut paper. I believe I will need to spend some real time with either 40u/30u to get the burr I want to ensure I am doing the right thing and get the feeling of what I am doing. Even for this stage you really recommend honing in the “air” instead of in the bench right?


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[rbscebu]

When I set my first few beveles, I did it all hand held. As my honing skills developed, I went to bench mounted but only for the initial rough setting. I suggest that for now you stick with hand held only.

Don't forget that you are in no rush. Just take your time and don't use too much pressure. This is not knife sharpening. You are sharpening a precision instrument with which to shave your face.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Sharpie is great for my own practice for sure! I want to do it a few more times before I start with the real deal. Perhaps even sometimes during the process just to ensure I am covering the surface with the same pressure. Sharpie addict now!

The bevel is non-existing, does not cut paper. I believe I will need to spend some real time with either 40u/30u to get the burr I want to ensure I am doing the right thing and get the feeling of what I am doing. Even for this stage you really recommend honing in the “air” instead of in the bench right?


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I can see from here that you don't have a bevel yet. Read the thread "Newbie Honing Compendium" from start to finish. ALL your questions are answered in there, mostly in the sub-threads linked within. Read all, start to finish. Read it all again. Especially the one about setting the bevel by the burr method. You don't have far to go so I suggest you do not start any more coarse than 600 grit. It's not a Gold Dollar, after all.

Yes, always hone in hand.
Read the threads, and understand.

 

[rbscebu]

@Slash McCoy, he stated that he has read it all, however I feel that he has not fully comprehend all that he read. Otherwise he would not be asking questions that are already covered in the compendium. If so, he should reread it all again, and again if necessary.

I don't mind helping out when he has resource access problems, but I am not about to teach him that which he should already know from the compendium.

 

[mmrmm]

Thanks gents, today’s plans are:

- Read all again, focus on stage #1 (burr)
- Glue 30u on one of the plates I got, test grip, find comfort
- Setup material, working area
- Perhaps play with the sharpie like yesterday

I will take my time because I am normally quite good in starting a craft but only when taking my time. Rushing is the root cause of all my misfortunes when trying something new.

 

[mmrmm]

Did all that, and gave it a go with the 30u.

Lot of work, 500 laps until a felt a burr all over the edge. Then 500 laps on the other side, burr felt on both sides. Removing burr by alternating sides took a lot longer than what I was expecting. I suspect this 30u Is pretty much gone....

Now the problem, that must come from something I did wrong. The edge looks awful. Not symmetric in any way. Check bellow....

Obvious mistake would have been uneven pressure, but if so then completely different on either side!

Will wait for inputs before I even look to the 15u...

 

[Slash McCoy]

What's wrong with it? Does it easily shave arm hair? If you are worried about the bevel width not being exactly the same up and down the edge and on both sides, I have to ask, why do you think that would matter the slightest bit?

There are two possible ways that the bevel width can be 100% consistent width along the entire edge and on both sides. Either the razor is ground perfectly symmetrical, or you have spent a lot of time and care to make it so, without worrying about whether the bevel is flat and true and meets at a good apex or not. Remember, your goal is to end up with a razor that shaves great, not a razor that is artificially forced to have a perfectly consistent bevel width.

If you look, REALLY LOOK at the razor and at the bevel on both edge and spine, you should come to the conclusion that the blade is slightly twisted. Are you assuming that the razor is ground with perfect symmetry? It's not, and few are until you get up into top shelf razors.

Before you jump up in grit, give it a half dozen pull strokes. This is where you lay the razor on the hone and pull it directly to the side instead of up and down the hone, with only about 3/4" of travel. One stroke one side, one stroke the other, back to the first side, etc for 6 laps. This helps to strip any artifacts from the edge and eliminate any fin edge. Next, give it 20 very light, very short x stroke laps. Travel should only be about 4". This will peak the apex back up. Now you are ready to move up a grit.

Keep your pressure pretty light as you move up the progression. About the weight of your hand at first, gradually getting lighter and at the final grit, only the weight of the razor. Remember at each stage to do the pull strokes and the very short x strokes.

You will feel the difference at each stage when you are done with that stage. The razor will sort of stick to the film and there will be a resistance to the stroke. You will feel it more at finer grits, and it will be faint and subtle at coarser grits. Remember that each stage must completely obliterate the scratches left by the previous stage, and that you must not advance in grit again until you know that you have done this and there is no fin edge.

 

[global_dev]

i agree, razors are mostly not 100% straight and even across the length or width, as the hone abraded areas become larger, it becomes more apparent. It's typically only an aesthetic issue until it becomes a geometry issue, but thats usually a long ways away.

As you learn to hone better, you'll understand how minimize that type of wear. For example some honers adapt the blade to the honing, i like to adapt the honing to the blade.

all you care about now is if the apex on the bevel is set/complete. follow the guidance above on moving through the progression.

 

[mmrmm]

Will do!
Great feedback.

Will take the little of what is left out of the 32u piece I used...

Are you surprised that it is pretty much gone after what I did this morning?

 

[global_dev]

Indeed, my personal challenge for now is just to get an edge!

Here are the pics, looking forward for some comments. I fear that that “thing” I picked up is so messed up that it would not even do for learning to hone and getting an edge...

Not a significant issue, but looking back at some of your initial photos, (specifically the last 4) I think from those original pictures you can already see the bevel was already not even and i think your honing just brought it out more, as it should once you get to that level of honing wear. THIS is a level of razor that has the qualities of THAT type of level of razor, if that makes sense.. at least you don't have stabilizer intrusion to deal with. Some of the initial issues are grind related in terms of hollowing and others in terms of OEM edge creation.

however once you get the edge to shave well, you might love the way it feels on the shave versus how the bevel looks, it'll have sentimental value and shave great which should not be undervalued.

 

[global_dev]

Will do!
Great feedback.

Will take the little of what is left out of the 32u piece I used...

Are you surprised that it is pretty much gone after what I did this morning?

I can't answer that, i don't have much experience with 32u or film in general

 

[mmrmm]

Finished the progression. Hate the adhesive. Lost more time with that than with lapping.

Now I am trying to understand how to used this kit for the last step.

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What I read so far is not enough for me to do it. Don’t want to ruin everything now.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I recommend you do NOT put any paste on a leather strop. READ THE THREADS and you will see how it is done. The information has been placed right out there for you to take and use. I am starting to feel like I am wasting my time in this thread and not helping at all. Read the recommended threads. If it says do, then do. If it does not say do, do not do. Pretty simple. But you keep wanting to freestyle it. If you know more about making a razor sharp than the collective membership of this forum, then please ignore this post. Otherwise I have to say you need to follow a method with a proven track record, and this one gives the best results the fastest and the cheapest. I[m outta here, did my bit.

 

[mmrmm]

@Slash, like I said: I felt I didn’t knew enough about that CrOx topic and therefore I had to read more. I did. And concluded exactly what you said. So I did no such thing, all good.

Thanks for the help. I finished the process, looks ok but I need to shave test it.

I am incredibly frustrated with the material part. Like I cannot even explain. The glass plates worked great, feel no need to find replacement. The PSA film is really really bad. Good thing I had 4 plates to play with since I had to glue that stuff, but still...

Will not redo the process, on this or on the new razor (GD) when I get it, until I am able to get my hands on some decent film. Like I said before, not that many options out there to get it shipped here. Frustrating, as it should be something easily available, shipped in an envelope, etc..

 

[mmrmm]

I was so annoyed (still am!) by that sticky PSA 3M film that, honestly speaking, did not appreciate the process like I should. But it was kind of cool, after a few laps started to be at ease with the grip even if taking it slow.

The burr method was challenging as I said above, but 100% bullet proof indeed. Without it I would have no idea whether or not I had an edge. Funny how I got a burr after a few (perhaps 100) laps on some sections of the blade, but then had to go up to 500 to really get it across the blade.

Will deepen my search for non-PSA film, so far only 1 vendor that may ship over here will email them. Really not looking forward to ship it in from outside Europe, shipping times and fees completely crazy nowadays.

Again, thanks a lot!

 

[global_dev]

Funny how I got a burr after a few (perhaps 100) laps on some sections of the blade, but then had to go up to 500 to really get it across the blade.

This is where experience & exposure comes into play. Sometimes you work only a third of the edge at a time instead of all of it all the time, but depends on your style and preferences.

 

[jaro 101969]

So how was the shave with it ?

 

[mmrmm]

Really good!

 

[CCR]

only advice I can give would be.......

pay particular care to the bevel set. spend extra time during this initial stage making sure you get that right.

if you dont have a good foundation to work off of.........the rest of the progressions will be a waste of time. there are no magic stones in later progressions that will make up for a deficiency with this. this is what I have learned through listening, working, and hard knock learning.

camo

This has me thinking starting out i might go 1000 to 2000 before jumping to a 4k or 6k? That way if i miss just a little on 1000 the 2000 might recover a slight off bevel? Or would be considered to much honing on a rough grit for to long and degrade the life of the razor? I have noticed a lot of the rock sites carry a 1k to 6k combo but i would think that is a big jump from 1k to 6k. So i would probably want a 4k/8k combo to go with it? Then a slurry stone and a lv4.5 shohonyama?
Reason i ask is that is what i put in my ebay watch list, less the 2k just wondering if i need it?

 

[camoloc]

This has me thinking starting out i might go 1000 to 2000 before jumping to a 4k or 6k? That way if i miss just a little on 1000 the 2000 might recover a slight off bevel? Or would be considered to much honing on a rough grit for to long and degrade the life of the razor? I have noticed a lot of the rock sites carry a 1k to 6k combo but i would think that is a big jump from 1k to 6k. So i would probably want a 4k/8k combo to go with it? Then a slurry stone and a lv4.5 shohonyama?
Reason i ask is that is what i put in my ebay watch list, less the 2k just wondering if i need it?

right now i go either 1k or 1.5k to 3k to 8k then 12k.

aftetwards:

balsa progression
or
12 Cnat
or
blk hard extra fine arkansas.

camo