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Honing Newbie, basics!

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
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Not with a Sharpie but I think it will do, please check the pics below.

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@rbscebu, I spent days reading all those posts, followed all the links, etc.

I know that the adhesive back is not ideal, just did not notice it when I made the purchase.

Where I live it is really hard now to get access to any material.

BTW, just a few minutes ago I got the DHL deliver, I got all that material.
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
@rbscebu, I spent days reading all those posts, followed all the links, etc.

I know that the adhesive back is not ideal, just did not notice it when I made the purchase.

Where I live it is really hard now to get access to any material.

BTW, just a few minutes ago I got the DHL deliver, I got all that material.
OK. I understand. I am in a similar situation in not having ready access to materials. Can you access suitable acrylic?
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
No...

Got this just now:


In your opinion, can I use it?


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You can use the glass as a lapping plate with wet & dry sandpaper to flatten things like whetstones and balsa strops. For the films, you need a smaller and lighter substrate, like the acrylic I mentioned above. This was all stated in the lapping film thread. That's why I asked if you really read it.

I'll ask again, can you access suitable acrylic?
 
Only local store I found only sells really thin acrylic.

A piece of floor tile or so could eventually be easier.


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rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
Only local store I found only sells really thin acrylic.

A piece of floor tile or so could eventually be easier.


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What do you call "really thin"? Can you get 5mm or 6mm thick?
 
Best thing I found is 12mm thick, 60 cm x 20 cm.

It is a pre-cut acrylic shelf of some kind.

Say the word and I will run out to the store. ;)


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rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
[Buy it!QUOTE="mmrmm, post: 10809219, member: 125141"]
Best thing I found is 12mm thick, 60 cm x 20 cm.

It is a pre-cut acrylic shelf of some kind.

Say the word and I will run out to the store. ;)


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[/QUOTE]
Buy it! Also buy some light weight timber like pine about 300mm x 75mm x 10mm or larger and some rubber glue (about 300ml). The timber will be glued to the underside of the acrylic to give it all some thickness to protect your delicate manicure.

I'm going to bed know. More tomorrow morning.
 
On my way there now, they are not very helpful on the phone.

Mission to find acrylic 300mm x 75mm x 20mm like you mention on your post.

As alternative, if they can cut glass on demand, would it also do if with that same size?


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rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
On my way there now, they are not very helpful on the phone.

Mission to find acrylic 300mm x 75mm x 20mm like you mention on your post.

As alternative, if they can cut glass on demand, would it also do if with that same size?


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Glass will be too heavy, fragile and too thin. Get the acrylic.

Good night.
 
Thank you for the support so far, without this I would surely find an alternative hobby. ;)

Did my last round of searching for appropriate acrylic, the only places in which perhaps such pieces could be cut are overwhelmed for the next months building all sorts of acrylic protections for stores and factories due to the pandemic. The available ones are at most 4mm thick, really flexible and with questionable quality, and unbelievable expensive. :(

Not ready to give up, and unwilling to wait weeks or months for any sort of online alternative that could eventually exist, I found alternatives. Alternatives, as in “with compromise“. ;)

A couple of pictures of what I have ready as of today, hopefully close to enough to start having fun... :)

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There you can already see it. Found some nice quality pre-cut glass shelves that look incredible flat. Really light weight. Of course it is fragile. I will probably take the advice of glueing some light weight “something” underneath to add on the comfort but I think this is as good as I will get in terms of equipment. It was really cheap too, so I got four. :)

Got that heavy glass plate that I am now not sure if I will ever use :(, sanding paper that I should not need, spray bottle for the water, and of course the films.

Here is what I am thinking:
- Should not need to use the 100u and the 40u.
- The 30u, 15u and 9u are adhesive backed and as far as I read the main problem is to get it perfectly flat. As I have several glass plates I may for example glue the 30u and 15u on both sides of a plate and name it “building the bevel”. And glue the 9u to a second plate. Will need to really take my time in gluing to get it right, but at least I would only need to do it once.
- The 3u and 1u are not adhesive backed, so I can use them on and off with the third plate.
- The fourth plate would be a backup. ;)

For the Cromium Oxide, if and when I shall use it, I got a bundle that comes with a strap, so I have no intention of getting my precious strap dirty as per someone‘s hint. ;)
 
Getting the PSA backed film down flat, and without capturing any bits of dust and debris, is the hard part. This is hard enough without the PSA. Dirt and debris will show as black spots on the film when using the finer grits.

I've never dealt with PSA backed film, but my understanding is that people have had good results removing the adhesive with Simple Green or some other solvent.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
BTW: does it help to have some kind of magnifying device to check the progress? If so, anything out there that does not cost an arm and a leg?

I guess a microscope would be an overkill...


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A small microscope of around 100 or 200x magnification is certainly NOT overkill. They are also pretty cheap on ebay or amazon. However a microscope gives a very narrow field of view. It is great for studying scratch patterns but overall bevel condition is generally better viewed through a 10x or 20x loupe or very large and strong magnifying glass, in conjunction with a VERY bright light. The Belomo 10x Triplex is a very popular and fairly inexpensive loupe made I think in Belarus that seems to be comparable to the high end Bausch & Lomb loupes. I would lean more toward getting this loupe if you are on a tight budget, and get a small handheld USB or straight optical microscope later. There are also microscopes that clamp on to your cell phone over the camera lens so you can use your phone for viewing or for taking pics.

100u film would be useful only in limited situations. 60u or 30u are handy for doing the initial heavy lifting of setting a bevel. 15u for completing the bevel. Then 9u. 3u, and 1u film make up the rest of the progression.

PSA film can be used but plain back is better. I recently revisited the use of PSA film and my final determination is that there are a few very good reasons to stay with plain back film. First, the edge of the film wears the most, due to hard contact with the stabilizer and the thickened area adjacent to the stabilizer that is often found on all but the highest quality razors. If the film is plain back, it is a simple matter to slide the film over 1/8" and cut the overhanging part off with a very sharp knife or SE blade ran down the side of the plate. Can't do that with PSA. If you only have one or two plates, you will need to change film sometimes. Plain film is simple to change. PSA, not so. Third, the adhesive layer's thickness is somewhat variable and the adhesive is a layer of more compressible material. This is not usually good because it can inhibit the development of a flat bevel and a precise apex. Third, it is a one shot thing, applying PSA film. Difficult to remove bubbles and impossible to remove dust, lint, hair, etc from between film and plate. So sure, use what you got, but next time I suggest you order plain back film.

A thicker plate such as a 1" or 3/4" thick piece of acrylic is much better. You can more easily hold it in hand and not have your fingertips exposed to the razor's edge while honing. Honing in hand is superior to bench honing for a beginner, certainly. Bench honing magnifies common newbie mistakes. You could maybe glue your glass plate to a large aluminum head sink such as the type used on many very large motor controllers. I suggest NOT using wood as it will warp. If you use wood anyway, be sure that you attach it with a very resilient adhesive and check the plate often for flatness.

If you want best possible results, you must use best possible technique and tools. You must do your homework, read read read. Then read it all again. DETAILS ARE IMPORTANT, unless you just don't care what kind of edge you get. See the Newbie Honing Compendium.
 
I take the opportunity to show the only thing I did today - marked the edge with a black sharpie and then I ran it a few times over 1500 grit paper on top of the big glass plate.

I know I scratched the razor a bit, I guess it is fixable with the following steps.

I was still really worried on whether or not this razor would be a candidate to play with. And a few of you suggested this test. I guess also interesting for me to get a feeling on how to make it flat against whatever surface I will use.

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Not sure what you take from this. Does not look that bad...?
 
Thanks!

Besides those small scratches there, there are a few minor irregularities on the blade. Can I use 0000 steel wool all over? Or any better alternative? Sanding seems extreme, perhaps something closer to polish?


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rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
The Sharpie results look good provided it was obtained with just two to four very light laps. If not, do it again and preferably on finer film like the 9um.

Forget about the scratches on the blade for now. You will probably make more as you learn and might be able to polish them out later.

Next job is to make a/some substrate(s) for your films. Slash is right about using timber under thinner acrylic. I only had access to 6mm thick acrylic. To prevent timber warp affecting the acrylic flatness, I glued a piece of 6mm thick ceramic tile between the acrylic and the timber. This gave me a complete overall thickness of about 30mm which is plenty. If you use light, as in weight, enough timber this can be even lighter than one of all acrylic, even with the tile.

After assembly, sand the sharp corners off of the timber to make it more comfortable to hold. To help prevent moisture being absorbed into the timber, give it three coats of acrylic paint after assembly. That is what I did. Be careful to keep the top surface of the acrylic absolutely clean, undamaged and paint free.

I only have and use one lapping film substrate about 300mm x 75mm for all my films, but none of my films are PSA.

All my honing beyond initial rough bevel set is done hand-held, so substrate mass can be important. It gets tiring holding a heavy substrate.
 
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