Honing marks

[chagovatoloco]

Gentlemen of I may, I would like to talk about honing marks or spine ware.

I know that ideally it should be little to none. If a new razor was purchased and properly maintained it should go a lifetime with almost no hone ware. But too often this is not the reality. Especially with estate razors. Often they are in properly honed, chipped or otherwise in need of serious attention. This type of service results in obvious hone ware, but is this bad? Lets face it, the spine will never ware out and the ware helps maintain the original angle of the blade.

I have read of techniques to avoid this but ultimately maintaining the ascetic sacrifices the blade angle. Isn't it better to have a comfortable razor over a good looking razor? Am I missing something? Many of my restored razors have hone ware, but they shave nice and thats the goal, no?

Here is a pax razor of mine - I love pax razors - it once had a frown. I bread knifed it then honed it out.

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[kcb5150]

The spine is meant to wear as you hone it to maintain everything in good geometry. I could care less if I have a wide flat on the spine if it is shaving great vs a sharp crisp spine that looks freshly ground but is shaving not so comfortably because I taped the spine to hone out a chip on an improperly stored blade. I tend to measure everything with calipers and see where I stand beforehand but more and more I don't tape. I got a Korean blade recently where I needed to thin out the spine as it was much too wide for good geometry. It was shaving horribly and now it is great. The thing I actually tend to clean up are stabilizers that ppl honed into. I will hand sand those sometimes to pull them out of the way a touch and blend away the wear. Pax are awesome. I have a big one that is in regular rotation.

 

[Jnatcat]

In a perfet world a spine would wear evenly if it was ground to perfect precision and the end user was to apply the perfect pressure all the way across the blade during each and every honing session, I have several NOS razors that have been honed more times than I can count the the spines on some are slightly unven which in turn makes the bevel slightly uneven, I used to obsess about this over and over and finally realized that in order to get it perfect I would have to remove alot of steel and life from the razor, some razors just will never be perfect, I have several that the spine is more worn in the middle than the ends and some with the ends more than the middle but they hone up perfectly and the shaves are outstanding so I quit worrying about it.

The are methods during honing that can be applied that will even out the spine and give that perfectly even bevel all the way across the razor but at what cost in the amount of steel will have to be removed to acomplish this.

 

[Doc226]

With regular use the wear on the spine should be minimal

If you need to remove a chip or dings then you will incur several honing sessions of spine wear in one sitting.

It is a tool, use it and don't worry about it

 

[chagovatoloco]

Thanks, that was my understanding. I just wanted to see if you guys feel that way as well.

I no longer use tape, just don't see the need unless the spine is ornate. Otherwise I just hone.

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[chagovatoloco]

The spine is meant to wear as you hone it to maintain everything in good geometry. I could care less if I have a wide flat on the spine if it is shaving great vs a sharp crisp spine that looks freshly ground but is shaving not so comfortably because I taped the spine to hone out a chip on an improperly stored blade. I tend to measure everything with calipers and see where I stand beforehand but more and more I don't tape. I got a Korean blade recently where I needed to thin out the spine as it was much too wide for good geometry. It was shaving horribly and now it is great. The thing I actually tend to clean up are stabilizers that ppl honed into. I will hand sand those sometimes to pull them out of the way a touch and blend away the wear. Pax are awesome. I have a big one that is in regular rotation. View attachment 780979

That is a nice razor!

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[Jarrod]

Records and meant to be broken, and razors meant to be consumed.

I'd rather have another great shaver than the world's purest unobtanium trophy case queen any day.

Enjoy your fine vtg Solingen shaver in good health.

 

[Jnatcat]

@Doc226 finally broke me of worrying about it, as long as the shave is good it's not a concern and if you are not honing the same razor over and over you are not gonna wear one out and if you want practice buy yourself some GD's or ZY's

 

[Disburden]

Spine wear is a part of a razors life that can only be avoided by using tape.

Some people set a bevel with tape to avoid wear and then remove tape after for the rest of the honing.
Honestly hone wear doesn't bother me.

 

[Slash McCoy]

What they said. It's a tool, not jewelry. Proper honing wears the spine and the edge in proper proportion. Normal wear to the spine is not something to dwell on.

 

[Razorfaust]

I have a henckels that I brutalized with spine wear myself due to warp and frown correction sometime ago. Not pretty but shaves great, depends whats important to you really. Most of my other razors are not worn much because they were in good shape to begin with but I only have a few beauty queens that I refrain from putting significant wear on them. Depends on your mind set really shouldn't hurt the razor unless its excessively unbalanced geometrically. Many of us myself included have a sort of mania in regards to honing our razors. I believe we probably hone them too much for the sake of edge chasing and trying new stones, what have you, in any case a lot of honing is done not because the razor needs it but for the experience and satisfaction pursuing our hobby.

 

[Bobski]

True, it's not jewellery, however, every now and then you get hold of something that is cosmetically lovely. I recently spoke of a Thiers Issard 7/8 Spartacus that had beautiful goldwash. I was reluctant to put spine wear on it. I ended up honing it with 1 layer of tape. I even coated the goldwash with acrylic nail polish to protect it. Sure, not something you would normally do. I learned a valuable lesson in honing, the ethos of it and the practicality of honing styles. A member and vendor mbrando, who I bought two 7/8 Uno razors off that were really super edges when I opened the box. Well, Mike (of Brandonisio and bros .) explained his honing process. Now not everyone likes this, but I admit to being a believer. He sets his bevels with the idea that it's a one time job. Not ever needing to be repeated, so he uses a DMT 325 plate and sets a bevel real quick, and there is of course some spine wear but it's not as much as you'd imagine. He then goes up through polishing stones. At the end of the day when I shaved with an edge created that way it was brilliant. So, I have ordered two new additions to my honing process. I already had a DMT 325 but it had seen better days, and a similarly worn Atoma plate #400. Well I'm expecting any day now an Atoma #600 plate, and a replacement sheet#1200 grit which I will use on the other side of the #400 plate, so it's a double sided plate, and a #1200 plate as well. Yeah I'll lap hones with the lower grit plates, but I am mainly going to use the #600 and #1200 as bevel setters. Now I hear the nay sayers, and I think about beautiful spines on some razors, but for 90% of razors that are new, I reckon, set the bevel once, and do it right, and it should hold its geometry for a long time. I was converted by using Mike Brandonisio 's edge on one of his brand new Uno's. I did get that Thiers Issard shaving well, but it was a lot of work. I know for sure the next razor that I get will get the diamond plate bevel set. Righto, attack fellas...lol

 

[eKretz]

Using diamond hones isn't really a big deal as long as you take some precautions. I wouldn't use a brand new plate on any razors I valued because they almost always have diamonds that stick up beyond the mean average abrasive particle height until they are well worn-in. After that you are good to go. I also prefer to use the coarsest plates edge trailing, as they tend to occasionally tear chunks out of the edge otherwise. Any burr or wire will be removed subsequently anyway.

 

[sfeile]

I've used a worn diamond plate to remove small to medium chips before. One layer of tape while on the diamond letting the tape wear out, then onto my 1K with no tape setting my bevel and removing any remaining micro-bevel caused by the tape. Then just normal progression.

In my simple thought process, the tape prevents too much excess wear that you may cause by removing the chips, but letting it wear and not constantly changing it keeps it from getting too far away from the original angle. Then setting the bevel with no tape brings you back to roughly where it should be.

I don't do all the angle math as it just confuses me.
I may not be completely correct in my thinking, but so far I have had good results when I am finished with them.

 

[Jnatcat]

I cannot imagine using a diamond plate to set a bevel, i would think it would tear chucks out but have never tried it, i use a chosera 1K and that seems to be good and on the ocassion I need more i use a Atoma 1200 plate and work up a slurry on the 1K and this greatly speeds up the cutting process.

 

[Steve56]

I've used both DMTs and Atomas to correct and set bevels on new Gold Dollars. The 320 DMT is a little less aggressive than the 400/600 Atomas. I still use them to thin Gold Dollar spines. But lately I've been using a Shapton Pro 320 and or double thick Shapton Glass HR 500 for rough bevel work. The latter is an aggressive stone that can tame a factory Gold Dollar edge, the former even coarser but maybe doesn't cut as fast as the HR 500.

Cheers, Steve

 

[migralda]

Look at Dr. Matt's video's on youtube. There is one in particular where he explains about using the diamond plates to correct razor alignment faults and also setting a bevel then "converting" it on synthetic stones. I have to say my edges have never looked back.