Honing/fixing a bent blade (not warped)

[JPO]

Some time ago i got a new Dovo 6/8 blade that was a little bent. I was not able to make contact in the middle on the concave side of the razor, even on a shapton gs seven. It seems like this is a common problem with some of these razors, and it is probably a common beginner blade.
I eded up honing in a little smile, and moving the heel inn a bit. It shaves good now, but the blade is still bent.
Part of me wanted to put the razor in a wise grip before i honed it to straighten it a little, but i was afraid of braking the blade. If this had been one of my first blade when i got started, i would probably have jacked it up quite badly.
The wear on the spine was also not even at the start of the stabilizer.
What is the best approach for this type of problem?

 

[stone and strop]

Pictures!

 

[JPO]

Pictures!

I did not take any pictures before i honed the blade. I was just interested in what‘s the best way to handle this type of blade in general. Basically you end up with a fat bevel at the heel and toe on the concave side of the blade, if you hone on a flat surface. On the bellied side you can use a rolling x stroke. The concave side is the issue.
I am considering getting a new razor. My boker razors have all been grate, but two out of two Dovo‘s have had some geometry and grind issues.
The issue i have with my boker razors is the scales, but the blades are greate. Some of the scales are also a little bulky, which throws off the balance a little.
The 6/8 boker abalone models looks good, but they are also extra hollow ground, which i am not sure is for me.

 

[stone and strop]

You keep honing until the bevel is full length. The wear will oppose each other on the spine.
Using a narrow hone will help to not make the wear so pronounced.
It will never be a looker but should be relatively easy to hone after the initial bevel is set. It does not matter if it is uneven.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Some time ago i got a new Dovo 6/8 blade that was a little bent. I was not able to make contact in the middle on the concave side of the razor, even on a shapton gs seven. It seems like this is a common problem with some of these razors, and it is probably a common beginner blade.
I eded up honing in a little smile, and moving the heel inn a bit. It shaves good now, but the blade is still bent.
Part of me wanted to put the razor in a wise grip before i honed it to straighten it a little, but i was afraid of braking the blade. If this had been one of my first blade when i got started, i would probably have jacked it up quite badly.
The wear on the spine was also not even at the start of the stabilizer.
What is the best approach for this type of problem?

A bent blade can often be fixed by clamping the blade in a bench vise with three pieces of nickel/silver pinning stock arranged to push the outside of the bend back in line with the ends of the blade. Proceed carefully. Better to have a dozen goes at it than to try to do it all in one take and either break the razor or turn a simple bend into an "S" or even "W" shape LOL!

But let me address one thing... not every bend or twist or warp needs to be fixed, and having a bevel surface width that is consistent from one side or one part of the blade to the next is absolutely-tootley NOT required and it serves no purpose at all apart from cosmetic. Remember, a razor is not jewelry. It is a tool. It is all about function.

But you say that there is no contact in the mid part on one side. That obviously is a problem. Was this one of the notorious entry level blades like the "Best Quality" or "Special"? That sort of quality control is expected from that maker and that price range. Until you get up over the $140 or so mark, you are only getting the blades from Dovo that any other maker would have scrapped as a matter of course. Even the Gold Dollar 66 is never sold with a bend in it like that, and this is a razor that wholesales for $1.50 or so and can be had as a single for about $4 with free shipping from China. So you see what an un-value the lower grade Dovo razors are. The better ones are pretty good and I have several Bismarck types that I really like. That razor should have been immediately returned. Dovo will NOT take back a razor that has been honed. They say so in their "guarantee". So you are stuck with fixing it or taking the loss, unfortunately.

The wear and more importantly the unwear areas will give you a clue on where to put the pins to push the steel into alignment. Sometimes this DOES break or crack the razor. Often it works pretty good. Take your time. If you break it at least you will enjoy doing it. You could make a nice youtube video!

Oh, and all the bending is done to the spine. Straighten the spine, and the edge will follow, maybe lagging just a bit. Remember though, that you have honed the bent razor and the spine will appear straight. You will therefore be straightening it beyond straight, and once again have to hone it straight. It ain't gonna be nothing purty. But I bet you can make it shave. The steel is good. I have never seen a Dovo, no matter how crappy, that didn't have good metal.

 

[Frank Shaves]

As an experiment, you might want to ping Dovo and ask for guidance. Who knows? They might offer to remediate the issue. The cost is only a few minutes of your time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[JPO]

As an experiment, you might want to ping Dovo and ask for guidance. Who knows? They might offer to remediate the issue. The cost is only a few minutes of your time.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Might be worth the effort, i don't know. By giving me a method of fixing this type of problem, they then have to admit there is a problem in the first place. To some degree you get what you pay for. If i had been looking for different dovo razors at different price points, i would expect the difference in price was related to the use of more expensive scales, or some other feature that made the razor more expensive to produce. I am not sure what the philosophy is. They do offer the same 6/8 razor in an masters series, which is advertised as being blades that are chosen for best workmanship. Maybe some of the lower end models are only satisfying the lower end of their production standards.

 

[JPO]

A bent blade can often be fixed by clamping the blade in a bench vise with three pieces of nickel/silver pinning stock arranged to push the outside of the bend back in line with the ends of the blade. Proceed carefully. Better to have a dozen goes at it than to try to do it all in one take and either break the razor or turn a simple bend into an "S" or even "W" shape LOL!

But let me address one thing... not every bend or twist or warp needs to be fixed, and having a bevel surface width that is consistent from one side or one part of the blade to the next is absolutely-tootley NOT required and it serves no purpose at all apart from cosmetic. Remember, a razor is not jewelry. It is a tool. It is all about function.

But you say that there is no contact in the mid part on one side. That obviously is a problem. Was this one of the notorious entry level blades like the "Best Quality" or "Special"? That sort of quality control is expected from that maker and that price range. Until you get up over the $140 or so mark, you are only getting the blades from Dovo that any other maker would have scrapped as a matter of course. Even the Gold Dollar 66 is never sold with a bend in it like that, and this is a razor that wholesales for $1.50 or so and can be had as a single for about $4 with free shipping from China. So you see what an un-value the lower grade Dovo razors are. The better ones are pretty good and I have several Bismarck types that I really like. That razor should have been immediately returned. Dovo will NOT take back a razor that has been honed. They say so in their "guarantee". So you are stuck with fixing it or taking the loss, unfortunately.

The wear and more importantly the unwear areas will give you a clue on where to put the pins to push the steel into alignment. Sometimes this DOES break or crack the razor. Often it works pretty good. Take your time. If you break it at least you will enjoy doing it. You could make a nice youtube video!

Oh, and all the bending is done to the spine. Straighten the spine, and the edge will follow, maybe lagging just a bit. Remember though, that you have honed the bent razor and the spine will appear straight. You will therefore be straightening it beyond straight, and once again have to hone it straight. It ain't gonna be nothing purty. But I bet you can make it shave. The steel is good. I have never seen a Dovo, no matter how crappy, that didn't have good metal.

It could be an interesting thing to try. From one of the dovo production videos you do see a guy hammering out some of the defects on certain blades after the tempering i would assume. I am not sure what the effect of this drop forging method they use have on the blade. I have heard that thiers-issard uses a different method for producing the blanks and the honing/grinding (one vs two wheels sinning in opposite directions).
Do you know what the approximate steel yield limit is on these razors whit the hardness they use?

 

[Frank Shaves]

To some degree you get what you pay for. If i had been looking for different dovo razors at different price points, i would expect the difference in price was related to the use of more expensive scales, or some other feature that made the razor more expensive to produce.

The price of a new razor usually depends on the width of the blade, blade finish, spine decoration, and scale material. Go to The Invisible Edge and sort the 7/8 inch TIs by price.

I would like to think that you get what you pay for but due to QC issues this is not always the case. I paid almost $300 for a new TI that was a mess (see Share your most dissapointing straight razor purchase - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/share-your-most-dissapointing-straight-razor-purchase.613040/post-11427095) and then bought a new TI with stain finish and plastic scales from a large knife retailer with a near perfect blade for just over $100. Go figure!

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Post a pic, it may another issue. bent warped razors can easily be honed by hanging the heel off the stone and honing in 3 parts, toe, heel and blend the middle.

Post a pic, both sides.

 

[JPO]

Post a pic, it may another issue. bent warped razors can easily be honed by hanging the heel off the stone and honing in 3 parts, toe, heel and blend the middle.

Post a pic, both sides.

This is how it still looks after some correction work on the spine and the bevel. There is still work to be done if i want to reduse the heel a little.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Well, that one doesn't look TOO bad. I have fixed worse than that by just honing. Sharpie test? Your stones are lapped, right?

 

[JPO]

Well, that one doesn't look TOO bad. I have fixed worse than that by just honing. Sharpie test? Your stones are lapped, right?

My stones are lapped. I was able to hone it as it is now by working the concave side in sections. I did not want to remove more material. It shaves good, but it is not nice to look at. It was finished with a full nagura progression. I can't feel anything at the heel or the toe out of the ordinary.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Yea, that is not that bad, and you seem to have even spine wear.

You should be able to hone that warp with just a rolling X stroke. Roll the concave side, (high middle) rolling down. Hone the convex side, rolling up, lifting the heel.

The tip of the razor starts on the lower left corner and ends just past the middle of the top, you don’t need to do an exaggerated corner to corner stroke.

The trick is to drop the heel off the stone within the first inch of forward travel, this allows the middle of the razor, (spine and bevel) to make full contact. Ink will quickly tell you if you are making full contact. I like red or blue ink, it is easier to see.

You only need to drop the heel the amount of warp, in your case about the thickness of a couple sheets of paper.

Hone the convex side with the opposite roll, rolling up, lifting the heel by the same amount.

Do not use a lot of pressure and do not exaggerate the amount of roll. Really you almost just need to think about it and your hands will do it. Use as much ink as needed to ensure you are making full contact on the bevel.

If the razor is really warped or twisted, you can hone it in three parts, toe, heel and blend the middle, but a simple rolling X will get yours honed nicely.

Most razors have some warp from heat treating and should be at least finished with a rolling X stroke.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Taking a second look at the photos, you have been honing on the stabilizer, (red arrow).

Honing on the stabilizer will lift the heel half of the razor off the stone. Most new honers see they are not making contact and use more pressure, making an uneven bevel.

Just watch where you start your stroke and make sure the blade is flat on the stone. You also may want to reshape that heel corner to a smooth radius to prevent cutting yourself.

 

[JPO]

Taking a second look at the photos, you have been honing on the stabilizer, (red arrow).

Honing on the stabilizer will lift the heel half of the razor off the stone. Most new honers see they are not making contact and use more pressure, making an uneven bevel.

Just watch where you start your stroke and make sure the blade is flat on the stone. You also may want to reshape that heel corner to a smooth radius to prevent cutting yourself.

View attachment 1324259View attachment 1324260

Thank you for your observation. This was not done during honing. I started with the so called dr matt method, where you tape the edge and adjust the spine using a dmt plate. Then you tape the spine and adjust the edge. Remove the tape, and reset a new bevel. Half way through i realised this is not smart. So i stopped and honed as best as i could that geometry. This razor now shaves good, but the next time i hone it, i will round of the heel a little.
That brute force method is really the last time i will do with my razors. At least i stopped before it got to bad.
I understand if you hone on the stabilizer, you effectively hone in a warp.
In my case i had a high point on one side of the spine where the stabilizer starts. Part of the stabilizer was sort of collateral damage, but this was done when the edge was taped.
When Dovo grinds in the bevel on a spinning disk, it seems like they approach the wheel at an angle, resulting in a high point on the spine after the stabilizer.
There really should be a step by step guide for this, as it seems to be a common problem.
At least i did learn something, and stopped before it got bad.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Here are four good videos on honing a rolling X stroke. The first two are of Charlie Lewis, one at hone level and another from above.

Charlie is rolling the razor to hone a smiling blade, he is lifting the heel to hone the smile. The video is great to see the rolling action and how the heel comes off the stone quick. If he dropped the heel, it would be a better representation of what we are talking about, he lifts to hone the curve of the blade. At about 2:50 he is honing with the heel off the stone.

The second Lewis video taken from above and better demonstrates the heel coming off the stone early and where the toe ends on the stone.

Charlie Lewis hone level Rolling X
Charlie Lewis Rolling X 2

Robert Ortiz comes closer to what we are talking about at about 4:30 in the video where the blade is flatter on the stone to hone the middle and toe.

Robert Ortiz Rolling X

The third video is Sham, from Razor and Stone. Sham is honing the toe, his technique is the best representation, again note how the heel comes off the stone early and the middle and toe are flat on the hone as they slide off the edge. Starting at about 1:50. Note where the tip ends on the stone.

Sham straight razor honing stroke

 

[JPO]

Here are four good videos on honing a rolling X stroke. The first two are of Charlie Lewis, one at hone level and another from above.

Charlie is rolling the razor to hone a smiling blade, he is lifting the heel to hone the smile. The video is great to see the rolling action and how the heel comes off the stone quick. If he dropped the heel, it would be a better representation of what we are talking about, he lifts to hone the curve of the blade. At about 2:50 he is honing with the heel off the stone.

The second Lewis video taken from above and better demonstrates the heel coming off the stone early and where the toe ends on the stone.

Charlie Lewis hone level Rolling X
Charlie Lewis Rolling X 2

Robert Ortiz comes closer to what we are talking about at about 4:30 in the video where the blade is flatter on the stone to hone the middle and toe.

Robert Ortiz Rolling X

The third video is Sham, from Razor and Stone. Sham is honing the toe, his technique is the best representation, again note how the heel comes off the stone early and the middle and toe are flat on the hone as they slide off the edge. Starting at about 1:50. Note where the tip ends on the stone.

Sham straight razor honing stroke

Thank you for sharing. The best way to get people into this is to have good mentors. Anyone who is willing to spend their time sharing their experience should be encourage. But they should also be open for constructive feedback. I am not referring to any of these references, but there is some misleading information out there.

 

[Bowmaker]

Narrow hones are the easiest way for me to deal with warped blades. They can be really helpful in preventing or correcting frowns too. I have a well worn Smith's DCS4 that I use quite a bit for heavy lifting. It works for me, a modern version of a narrow paddle hone.

 

[Steve56]

You basically have 2 choices: 1) hone to a smile and accept the wider bevel at the toe and heel (image of a Dovo ismarck below, and the other side has a straight bevel), or 2) hone the irregular shape as-is with narrow hones, the corner of a hone, or sliding the heel off the hone and working in sections. Option 2 can keep the bevel a more even width but is a pain to do every time that you need a touchup.