Hones, lapping film, coticules and the Spyderco UF.

[Sullybob]

Gentlemen,
I have some honing questions and I need some advice. First a little back ground.
I currently have water stones ranging from 225, 400, 800, 1200 and 8000 grit. I need to pick up a new lapping stone as the one I have has given its life keeping my stones flat. I discovered that their is a Woodcraft near me and they have granite surface plates for a pretty good price http://www.woodcraft.com/Product/2004864/7535/Granite-Surface-Plate.aspx
They also have Norton lapping stones. I primarily use my stones to keep my knives sharp and I am thinking of keeping my knife sharpening and razor sharpening equipment separate, for the sake of convenience.

I am thinking of getting the surface plate and lapping film to keep my razors sharp and some wet dry sand paper to keep my water stones flat.

Could I use this kit
http://www.woodcraft.com/Family/2004014/2004014.aspx
to keep my razors sharp? Or would I need to avoid micro mesh? I have a small amount of lapping film now, but I will need to replace it.


My primary straight razor is a Le Grelot 1/4 grind, I have used my stones to sharpen it but I don't care for the edge that they produce. I have stropped it with chromium oxide and I don't really care for the edge it produces either. I am looking for a smoother edge, its plenty sharp now but it's a little rough for me.

I am also considering just staying with my stones and getting either a coticule or the Spyderco UF hone to finish with. If you were going to get one of these hones which would you chose and why? If you have both which one do you prefer? I know that lapping the Spyderco UF is not going to be fun. Or should I go with something else entirely?

 

[superbleu]

I don't think the Micromesh will work for you. The micromesh abrasive is on a cloth/fabric like material that will have too much give in it and won't be completely flat when you lay your razor down on it. You will end up with a round edge (this is all assumption)

If you decide to use the stones you should get a 4K stone. going from 1200 to 8K is a big jump. I am guessing the 8K wasn't enough to wear down(smooth out) the grooves from the 1200 and that is why your edge doesn't feel smooth.

For a lapping stone look into the DMT XXC or XC stones (they come in various sizes)

For a nice finishing stone consider the Naniwa 12K superstone, it's relatively cheap, fast and leaves a great edge.

If you go the lapping film route, the granite slab at woodcraft is nice, but big and heavy. You can see if your local glass shop can cut you a piece of glass (1/4 inch is probably thick/durable enough) Make sure they will sand the edges too. (this will cost a lot less too)

 

[JonnyAngel]

Im gonna say you really need a 3-5k mid range stone before anything else. Then, answering the original question, the UF is a good stone, better than the coti for finishing, but yes, the UF is hard to lap. Yet, have you considered a Tony Miller 4 sided strop? I have a the strop, a Nakayama and a Shapton 16k. The strop is cake compared to getting good results off the hones. Just a thought.

 

[leighton]

Hard to lap? Thats an...understatement.

The UF unlapped might work for you. And it will fit nicely after the 8k stone. But the edge is going to feel pretty similar to crox. What medium are you using with the crox? It makes a huge difference. I would try experimenting with different mediums before shelling out the cash for a stone.

That said, the coticule is going to give you the edge you desire. Its not going to feel as sharp and harsh as the edge off a synthetic, but thats what you want. The UF is the crox in hard stone form. More or less.

 

[LessLemming]

Hi Shawn,

if you are not satisfied with the edges you get,
maybe your finishing method isn´t to blame!

Besides good equippment sharpening a straight takes a huge amount of skill and time to master.
But like already said I have to make clear ones more:
You will need an intermediate hone!
You are totally overpacked in the coarse range,
wich may be good for sharpening other things than razors.

A razor needs a 1k hone for initial sharpening (if needed)
a medium hone for maintaining the bevel, a 3.000, 4000 or 5 to 6.000 might do that
then you will need a polishing stone, something like 8000 (wich you have, but what brand?)
A finishing method if needed would be Cr2O3, Diamond or a high grit stone.

What I guess that happens when you sharpen a razor is that you get a very sharp bevel on the 1.2k level.
Then you jump to an 8.000 grit hone, wich is way too fine to erase all the teeth left by the 1.2k
The edge seems sharp but feels absolutely harsh to the face.
So maybe a medium hone will treat you better, than a high grit stone?

I would not use MicroMesh either, I tried it and it didn´t work at all for me.
Keep your stones, add one medium and see if you like the edges you get then.
If you don´t, you can think of a coticule or a nakayama to finish off

Edit: have you tried finishing on 0.5 diamond on felt instead of Cr2O3? It won´t solve the medium hone problem, but is worth a try

 

[Sullybob]

Well, I'm noticing the trend. I'll pick up an intermediate grit hone first, something along the lines of a 4k stone.

I purchased my current sharpening set up years before I discovered wet shaving, B&B and straight razors. I sharpen a lot of kitchen knives, most of them are as dull as a table leg. When i put my kit together I wanted something that would really set a bevel on a kitchen knife fast, thats why I have all the coarse stones. I don't use anything coarser then my 1200 grit stone on my straight razors.

I use the crox on a TM practice strop.

How is finishing on a coticule going to be different then finishing on my 8k stone? I was under the impression that most coticules were in the 4-8k grit range.

 

[Chimensch]

How is finishing on a coticule going to be different then finishing on my 8k stone? I was under the impression that most coticules were in the 4-8k grit range.

Grit size isn't the whole story. I've tried almost everything and I still keep coming back to the coticule. I think it has to do with the shape of the garnets ... In any case, the coticule will give you an edge that's both sharp and smooth, very comfortable and, IMO, can't be beat. Also, the edge lasts longer than the edge off of CrOx.

 

[leighton]

The coticule is a very versatile stone. With slurry, it cuts quickly. Thin the slurry out, and you get a more refined edge, use only water and the edge is very fine. You actually don't need a 4k stone if you buy the coticule.