Honed a couple of razors last night.some trouble with a 1/4 hollow

[denvernoob]

I am by no means an expert honer, but I can generally work around most problems with good results, even bevels, and I usually have little trouble maintaining my fleet of razors...be they new or vintage, with excellent edges and shaves.

So with that in mind....I honed 2 razors last night...one full/extra hollow (vintage Fili 14 Medallon Taurino 1st Gen (Dancing Lady scales) that I just acquired, and my Portland Razor Co Leviathan I received about 1 year ago now...which needed a refresh beyond high grit.

Like most of my full hollows, I really had no trouble with the Fili. Noo story to tell there...it arrived mostly ready by my standard...but I hit the 1k and up I went, no issues.

The Portland razor (1/4 hollow), however, took a bit more effort. I started with 1 layer of tape at the 1k level and could just not get the bevel to reset to my liking. I tried the entire playbook....45 degree circles with pressure (call it medium) and torque, J strokes, rolling x strokes, 90 degree x strokes...the whole thing. I then started looking at tape specs, and it seems that the vinyl tape I use is not quite at thick as what they use for initial honing at Portland Razor Co, so I added a second layer, went down to my diamond 350, reset the bevel, then went 1k and up.

End state is that the edge is pretty good, not perfect. I was losing some patience towards the end of the cycle and probably should have spent a little more time on the 1k...so I will revisit this one.

I guess to make a short story long...is it normal to need to use a second layer of tape for a heavy grind in this context? I feel like I should have been able to get this done on 1 layer...

I also typically have a bit more trouble on the heavier grind razors. Rarely am I really resetting a full bevel, but should I hit the diamond plate briefly to really get at it for a few circles to knock the metal off? It just seems like on the 1/4 and heavier grinds, it takes a lot more work on the 1k than it should.

Thanks for the advice!

-Ted

 

[kcb5150]

Weren't some of the early Portland razors made with excessively thin spines?

 

[denvernoob]

Weren't some of the early Portland razors made with excessively thin spines?

Yes, however mine is second gen, which they state they hone with 1 layer (I should have been more specific).

 

[bluesman 7]

IIRC PRC uses 01 steel, which can be a bit tougher to hone IME. The grind per say shouldn't really matter except that a heavier grind will tend to get a wider bevel more quickly as the razor wears. Wide bevel reveals create additional steel to be removed at each stage of the honing. Adding tape will help reduce the bevel width at the expense of a more obtuse bevel angle.

 

[denvernoob]

IIRC PRC uses 01 steel, which can be a bit tougher to hone IME. The grind per say shouldn't really matter except that a heavier grind will tend to get a wider bevel more quickly as the razor wears. Wide bevel reveals create additional steel to be removed at each stage of the honing. Adding tape will help reduce the bevel width at the expense of a more obtuse bevel angle.

They state out of the box, 1 layer, they are getting a 16.5 degree angle out the factory...so one extra layer of thinner tape shouldn't have a huge impact in theory. The bevel is much wider on these than most of my other razors for sure. I have managed to keep it evenly worn and straight which is a good thing for sure (meaning pressure is even, blade is straights, hones are lapped). I guess I will just need to keep grinding at it longer.

I really shouldn't do two at the same time...especially with a heavier grind. I just seem to get a bit impatient.

 

[147_Grain]

IIRC PRC uses 01 steel, which can be a bit tougher to hone IME.

Does a higher tempering temp alleviate this, or is it rich enough in carbides that it's going to take about as long at 58 HRc as at 63?

 

[bluesman 7]

Does a higher tempering temp alleviate this, or is it rich enough in carbides that it's going to take about as long at 58 HRc as at 63?

I answered in a new thread in 'razor making' http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...eel-abrasion-resistance?p=8151490#post8151490 to not take this thread off topic.

 

[Bayamontate]

The 1st and 2nd generation Portlands are fine razors when you figure out the spine/bevel relationship, once you get to the apex of the edge they are not any easier or more difficult to hone than any other razor. On the 1st generation razors achieving the optimal bevel angle can be tricky.

 

[denvernoob]

The 1st and 2nd generation Portlands are fine razors when you figure out the spine/bevel relationship, once you get to the apex of the edge they are not any easier or more difficult to hone than any other razor. On the 1st generation razors achieving the optimal bevel angle can be tricky.

I think that is where I landed with the second layer of tape. Once that was applied, the apex seemed to come together better for sure. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't off my rocker and taking the "easy" way out to the detriment of either the razor or my honing technique. Many thanks.

 

[denvernoob]

2 layers (3M 35 tape) was the magic combo. I honed from start to finish again and got a stellar edge back on it....shaving brilliantly as ever. Thanks for the advice and help all!

 

[BobLH]

If you had to use 2 layers of tape I'd bet the spine is a tad on the narrow side for the blade size. Had to use 2 layers on a couple of vintage heavy grind blades with a good amount of hone wear. Whatever works.

Bob

 

[denvernoob]

If you had to use 2 layers of tape I'd bet the spine is a tad on the narrow side for the blade size. Had to use 2 layers on a couple of vintage heavy grind blades with a good amount of hone wear. Whatever works.

Bob

The first gen Portlands were even more narrow. I do know the tape I use is somewhat thinner than the super 88 they use...but yes to your point, I think it is still a bit narrow. My hone maintained the factory bevel and didn't move it much at all, so I am pretty sure I landed extremely close to what they did at the factory. This was the first hone of this razor since it was delivered...so no wear to speak of in this case. It was certainly more tape than I like to use....1 layer is typically my thing.

 

[BobLH]

The first gen Portlands were even more narrow. I do know the tape I use is somewhat thinner than the super 88 they use...but yes to your point, I think it is still a bit narrow. My hone maintained the factory bevel and didn't move it much at all, so I am pretty sure I landed extremely close to what they did at the factory. This was the first hone of this razor since it was delivered...so no wear to speak of in this case. It was certainly more tape than I like to use....1 layer is typically my thing.

Just mike the spine and blade then run the numbers. That will tell you if the spine is too narrow in the first place. I did that with those vintage ones with hone wear and the math suggested 2 layers to start with to get an acceptable bevel angle. The excel file makes it real easy to do.

Bob