Hone Issues

[JoeScho]

Gentlemen:
Got a few small issues with a 12000 Naniwa stone and wondering if someone else has similar issues. First, the stone is less than 1/2 inch thick which makes it relatively thin. I frequently notice that its no longer flat because I think its thin makeup makes it bow slightly while using. I'm using the plastic case that comes with it which may have more give than it should. This makes this stone a little unreliable for me.

The second issue is the very right edge of the stone. While honing, I have the tang on the right side of the stone as I run it across the stone, and it seems to catch frequently on the right edge. I think this is disrupting the honing process as well as taking small bits off the edge.

Either I've got it all wrong, or this stone wasn't the best choice due to it being a bit thin.

 

[Darth Scandalous]

The warping is a known issue. There have been a few threads about it.

The second thing, lapping a wider chamfer into the edge of the stone will help.

 

[Christian1212]

So the thick version of this stone is the better version because of the warping. The work around other members have found is gluing it to a solid base (I think thick glass or tile) so it does not warp as easily.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

How much is the warp? May not be as big an issue as you think as long as it is smooth.

The edge snagging is a problem, as said bevel or round the edges.

More importantly, how are your shaving edges off the 12?.

 

[JoeScho]

How much is the warp? May not be as big an issue as you think as long as it is smooth.

The edge snagging is a problem, as said bevel or round the edges.

More importantly, how are your shaving edges off the 12?.

Well, every time I finish using it I flatten it so its flat the next time I need it, plus to clean any metal off of it and the middle part of the stone - about the size of a half dollar always needs attention.

 

[JoeScho]

So the thick version of this stone is the better version because of the warping. The work around other members have found is gluing it to a solid base (I think thick glass or tile) so it does not warp as easily.

I found a Shapton model K0705 which is about 1 1/2 thick. Is there a better 12K stone?

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

Yea, 10k Shehiro, the same or better shaving finish, without the warp or swarf loading issues.

 

[JPO]

I found a Shapton model K0705 which is about 1 1/2 thick. Is there a better 12K stone?

I don't think it is a finer stone then the Naniwa.
Just glue it to something flat and stable. I did this with my 8k SS.
There are better stones, but it is still a grate stone. Just avoid loading on the surface and round off the edges.
I would rather spend the extra money on a good 5 to 8k stone.

 

[Gamma]

The thicker version can warp too. I've seen the warp cause the entire surface to be uneven, not just 'curved' as imagined. The center of one 12k SS was loaded with very small holes, like bubbles that got caught in the batter. 40 minutes of lapping and it still wasn't flat. I don't know that gluing it to something would solve all or any of the issues.
I was able to use it but it was annoying.

 

[J B Addis]

My SS8k (the thick version by the way) warped abominably no matter what I did, so I ended up throwing it into my soaking-stone bucket figuring that it would either fix the problem leaving me better off, do nothing leaving me no worse off, or destroy the stone, liberating me from the yellow albatross aggravating my neck. It stopped the warping, or at least lessened it it to a few seconds of lapping before use. It's lived in that bucket for about a year now, apparently none the worse for it.

Sample size of one however and rumor has it these stones are very individually variable, so I don't necessarily recommend that you try it. Maybe as a last resort if you've otherwise given up on it.

Yes, the gummy rubbery texture of superstones means that the vertices like to eat edges, I put a ~1/8"+ chamfer on them all then rounded it off, which fixed it.

 

[JoeScho]

My SS8k (the thick version by the way) warped abominably no matter what I did, so I ended up throwing it into my soaking-stone bucket figuring that it would either fix the problem leaving me better off, do nothing leaving me no worse off, or destroy the stone, liberating me from the yellow albatross aggravating my neck. It stopped the warping, or at least lessened it it to a few seconds of lapping before use. It's lived in that bucket for about a year now, apparently none the worse for it.

Sample size of one however and rumor has it these stones are very individually variable, so I don't necessarily recommend that you try it. Maybe as a last resort if you've otherwise given up on it.

Yes, the gummy rubbery texture of superstones means that the vertices like to eat edges, I put a ~1/8"+ chamfer on them all then rounded it off, which fixed it.

I think I'm going to chamfer it and keep it but just have to keep flattening it - maybe secure it somehow to something that won't give. In addition, look around for a 10K+ thicker stone and try my luck.

Honing is tough enough to learn without having to fight the equipment too.

 

[Christian1212]

Is a shame the naniwa stones have the warping problem or they would be really nice. I think people enjoy the suehero 10k stone to replace the SS 12k. Shapton glass stones are nice as well

 

[Seelector]

A few months ago I bought a 20mm thick Naniwa SS 12k that I returned to the vendor because of excessive warping. I think I started a thread on it. The vendor was good about it and exchanged it for another 12k SS, which warped less but it still warped. I glued the new stone to a 3/8 piece of aluminum plate which solved the warping issues.

This was the first stone I purchased after learning on film, and it left a bad taste in my mouth for Naniwas. I bought two Shapton glass a couple months later, I didn't even consider buying another Naniwa.

Edit: while messing with the first stone I learned that you can influence the warp by wetting one side and controlling how it dries. If you wet the concave side (just wipe some water around with your fingers, you don't need much) it will soak in a bit and push it back to sort of flat. Maybe put the wet side down against the counter for 15 minutes then set it on its edge to finish drying. But gluing it to a solid base is a lot easier than screwing around wetting one side trying to get it flat.

 

[Steve56]

BTW, you should not be running the tang/stabilizer/shoulder up on the hone. Those don’t need to be sharpened, refine your technique a bit to prevent this.

 

[JoeScho]

A few months ago I bought a 20mm thick Naniwa SS 12k that I returned to the vendor because of excessive warping. I think I started a thread on it. The vendor was good about it and exchanged it for another 12k SS, which warped less but it still warped. I glued the new stone to a 3/8 piece of aluminum plate which solved the warping issues.

This was the first stone I purchased after learning on film, and it left a bad taste in my mouth for Naniwas. I bought two Shapton glass a couple months later, I didn't even consider buying another Naniwa.

Edit: while messing with the first stone I learned that you can influence the warp by wetting one side and controlling how it dries. If you wet the concave side (just wipe some water around with your fingers, you don't need much) it will soak in a bit and push it back to sort of flat. Maybe put the wet side down against the counter for 15 minutes then set it on its edge to finish drying. But gluing it to a solid base is a lot easier than screwing around wetting one side trying to get it flat.

Is it worth going to film for touch ups? I have a set of Norton stones (1K,4K,8K) and they haven't warped in 5+ years which I use for bigger jobs, but the 12K seems to be the issue, and of course once you get a razor shaving nice, short of dropping it or banging it you only need the 12K so I'm wondering if a flat piece of glass and a decent piece of film will work as well

 

[Seelector]

Is it worth going to film for touch ups? I have a set of Norton stones (1K,4K,8K) and they haven't warped in 5+ years which I use for bigger jobs, but the 12K seems to be the issue, and of course once you get a razor shaving nice, short of dropping it or banging it you only need the 12K so I'm wondering if a flat piece of glass and a decent piece of film will work as well

Yes film will work very well for touchups. I touched up with 1um film on 3/4" thick lexan for months and months before I bought my 12k. There's nothing wrong with a film edge.

But you already have the Naniwa 12k so I'd glue it to a tile or something similar and be done with it. After a while you'll get sick of wetting out the film and squeezing all the bubbles out, then wondering if your film is used up or has some life left in it.

 

[Calou]

torsion problem encountered on 8K and 12K.
Since gluing on glass, torsion problem gone

 

[Seelector]

torsion problem encountered on 8K and 12K.
Since gluing on glass, torsion problem gone
View attachment 1664457

Double sided! That’s a good idea!

 

[Herrenberg]

torsion problem encountered on 8K and 12K.
Since gluing on glass, torsion problem gone
View attachment 1664457

What did you use for glue? I've used rubber cement to glue balsa and basswood onto acrylic, for The Method, but it seems possibly a little underpowered for stones.

My 12K has sat, unused, since I bought it. I have thought of using it many times, then picked something else, for reasons buried in my subconscious. At some point, I need to either use the darned thing or sell it or something. But despite it being 13/16" thick, and therefore the thicker version, I'm wondering whether I should take advantage of its unwarped newness, and glue it to something before I actually use it.

 

[Calou]

glue with 2 tubes for epoxy.

for this to work you need a "stronger" support than the twist of the stone. I chose 5mm glass
without this very rigid support the stone twisted continuously despite the surfacing