Holding An Edge (Stropless Shaving)
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rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
There you go spilling out secrets again, just like the goat manure and fermented salami paste
.
There you go spilling out secrets again, just like the goat manure and fermented salami paste
Shhh... mmmm. N’duja
Already retired actually and puttering in my workshop mostly for fun now days
BTW, way back when I used a replaceable blade razor I could go a month or more before switching to a new refill. The dull one worked just fine for me.
I think much of our tolerance to sharpness and the need to strop or stone is a blend of how tough or soft our whiskers are vs. how tough of soft our skin is. With a disposable I was always a hot water, no lather shaver with little to no skin irritation.
Over honed/stropped razors do irritate my skin more than dull ones do. For this reason I try to talk guys out of pasting the back or cloth side of their strops and over sharpening by using it for every shave and creating a harsh edge.
Tony
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- #85
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
Shave No. 18 T.H.60 (Vesperum)
Seventeenth shave using this SR without stropping. Standard pre-shave prep and passes.
This eighteenth shave with Vesperum was actually done yesterday (Saturday). I used this morning's shave with my normally maintained Solis as a criterion shave to compare it with un-stropped Vesperum's result the morning before. There is still very little difference between the two. The only difference that I can feel is that Vesperum is just the slightest bit tuggy when going ATG on the upper lip (Fool's Pass) and does not quite give me a BBS finish there. Other than that, I find both SR's the same in comfort and closeness.
Just to reiterate, all my shaves in this exercise have the same pre-shave prep and all shaves are two passes; first pass WTG and second pass XTG, except the upper lip which is ATG on the second pass.
I think I will take a pause in this exercise for a couple of weeks as I would like to get the edges of my second M7DS up to standard. That set has already been given B&B Method edges. They now just need to be even further refined by more very light work on diamond pasted balsa strops.
Seventeenth shave using this SR without stropping. Standard pre-shave prep and passes.
This eighteenth shave with Vesperum was actually done yesterday (Saturday). I used this morning's shave with my normally maintained Solis as a criterion shave to compare it with un-stropped Vesperum's result the morning before. There is still very little difference between the two. The only difference that I can feel is that Vesperum is just the slightest bit tuggy when going ATG on the upper lip (Fool's Pass) and does not quite give me a BBS finish there. Other than that, I find both SR's the same in comfort and closeness.
Just to reiterate, all my shaves in this exercise have the same pre-shave prep and all shaves are two passes; first pass WTG and second pass XTG, except the upper lip which is ATG on the second pass.
I think I will take a pause in this exercise for a couple of weeks as I would like to get the edges of my second M7DS up to standard. That set has already been given B&B Method edges. They now just need to be even further refined by more very light work on diamond pasted balsa strops.
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- #86
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
Shave No. 22 T.H.60 (Vesperum)
Twenty-first shave using this SR without stropping. Standard pre-shave prep and passes.
For this last week I was going to shave with my English M7DS but I could not resist the temptation of continuing this experiment with Vesperum. So, this week was Vesperum (non-stropped as usual) for Monday, Wednesday, Friday and today (Sunday). On the alternate days I shaved with the fully maintained Martis, Iovis and Saturni of my Latin M7DS.
During this week I noticed that Vesperum was just starting to noticeably deteriorate, not in smoothness or comfort but rather in closeness. Monday's Vesperum shave was as close as normal and about the same as Martis the next day. Wednesday's Vesperum shave was not as close as Martis or Iovis. The Friday and Sunday Vesperum shaves were getting less close each day. I will now call it quits shaving with Vesperum non-stropped.
Now don't get me wrong, Vesperum is still giving smooth comfortable shaves. It is now just not giving me DFS+ shaves like its matching SR's in my Latin set. If I was not comparing it with the matching others in the set, I would still consider Vesperum a great shaving razor.
Now for a summary of this, the first have of my strop-less SR shaving experiment:
This coming week I will finish refining the edges of my English M7DS before starting the second half of this experiment to test the edge-holding ability of my Titan 1918 ACRO T.H-70 SR.
Thank you to all those who have stayed with me. Your interest has helped me remain focused on this bathroom experiment.
Twenty-first shave using this SR without stropping. Standard pre-shave prep and passes.
For this last week I was going to shave with my English M7DS but I could not resist the temptation of continuing this experiment with Vesperum. So, this week was Vesperum (non-stropped as usual) for Monday, Wednesday, Friday and today (Sunday). On the alternate days I shaved with the fully maintained Martis, Iovis and Saturni of my Latin M7DS.
During this week I noticed that Vesperum was just starting to noticeably deteriorate, not in smoothness or comfort but rather in closeness. Monday's Vesperum shave was as close as normal and about the same as Martis the next day. Wednesday's Vesperum shave was not as close as Martis or Iovis. The Friday and Sunday Vesperum shaves were getting less close each day. I will now call it quits shaving with Vesperum non-stropped.
Now don't get me wrong, Vesperum is still giving smooth comfortable shaves. It is now just not giving me DFS+ shaves like its matching SR's in my Latin set. If I was not comparing it with the matching others in the set, I would still consider Vesperum a great shaving razor.
Now for a summary of this, the first have of my strop-less SR shaving experiment:
- All shaves have been with exactly the same pre-shave prep.
- All shaves, both Vesperum and criterion shaves, were two passes (WTG & XTG) except the upper lip which was WTG and ATG.
- Vesperum received no maintenance during the experimental period other than a wipe clean with moist chamois and oil after each shave - no stropping, and put away.
- My criterion razors, against which Vesperum was compared, where my Latin M7DS and all identical to Vesperum, including bevel angle at about 19deg.
- All razors in my Latin M7DS where maintained as normal - before each shave, 60 laps on the same clean leather strop, and after each shave 5 laps on a clean denim strop to clean the edge, wipe with a moist chamois, 50 laps on the same 0.1um diamond pasted balsa strop, oiled and put away.
- After about the first two or three shaves with Vesperum, the faintest of tugging was experienced when doing a Fool's Pass, and this remained the same for most of the subsequent shaves with this non-stropped test razor.
- It was not until about shave 20 with Vesperum that I started to notice any further deterioration in the quality of the shave that it was providing.
- After Vesperum shave number 22, I decided that Vesperum had deteriorated enough to call it quits with that razor and start the second half of this experiment.
This coming week I will finish refining the edges of my English M7DS before starting the second half of this experiment to test the edge-holding ability of my Titan 1918 ACRO T.H-70 SR.
Thank you to all those who have stayed with me. Your interest has helped me remain focused on this bathroom experiment.
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Not to rain on the parade or short circuit the experiment, but from conversations with blacksmiths, I think the steel property you're testing is referred to as "abrasion resistance". As I understand it, a lower resistance makes it possible for a strop to maintain an edge, while a higher abrasion resistance makes it harder or ineffective at maintaining an edge. Iwasaki tamahagane blades are supposed to have such a low resistance that 1,000 shaves are possible before honing is needed
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- #88
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
Maybe, but I have no way of measuring "abrasion resistance", only hardness. My metallurgical studies and training did not go much into "abrasion resistance". Remember that this experiment does not include any stropping.
Ah, right, my bad; didn;t quite read before posting. Gotta quit drinking & posting 
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- #90
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
PART 2
With "Vesperum" put away and my English M7DS all set up, this morning's shave was the start of part 2 of this bathroom experiment. The test SR is the "Evening" razor of my English M7DS. This is a Titan 1918 ACRO T.H-70 with a measured hardness of around 68 RHC. It is basically identical to "Vesperum" except for the steel composition, heat treatment and hardness. Like part 1, "Evening" will get no maintenance except for a wipe clean and oil after each shave - no stropping or honing etc.
Shave No. 1 "Evening"
The razor received its last stropping of 80 laps on clean leather. Prep was my usual; wash face with bar soap/cold water, cold water rinse, face lather with Proraso green cream and Chinese synthetic pure badger brush. Two passes (WTG & XTG) including a Fool's Pass.
The result was a DFS+ all over with the edge being comfortable and smooth to use in all areas and passes. After this shave the blade was wiped clean with a piece of moist chamois, oiled and put wway. The quality of this shave was the same as my "Sunday" shave yesterday.
I will only be reporting back here about once a week, unless there is a development that needs reporting.
"Vesperum" to the left and "Evening" to the right.
With "Vesperum" put away and my English M7DS all set up, this morning's shave was the start of part 2 of this bathroom experiment. The test SR is the "Evening" razor of my English M7DS. This is a Titan 1918 ACRO T.H-70 with a measured hardness of around 68 RHC. It is basically identical to "Vesperum" except for the steel composition, heat treatment and hardness. Like part 1, "Evening" will get no maintenance except for a wipe clean and oil after each shave - no stropping or honing etc.
Shave No. 1 "Evening"
The razor received its last stropping of 80 laps on clean leather. Prep was my usual; wash face with bar soap/cold water, cold water rinse, face lather with Proraso green cream and Chinese synthetic pure badger brush. Two passes (WTG & XTG) including a Fool's Pass.
The result was a DFS+ all over with the edge being comfortable and smooth to use in all areas and passes. After this shave the blade was wiped clean with a piece of moist chamois, oiled and put wway. The quality of this shave was the same as my "Sunday" shave yesterday.
I will only be reporting back here about once a week, unless there is a development that needs reporting.
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For whats is worth my own stropless test concluded at shave 16 using a 6/8 Kropp. Tugging primarily and not close enough anymore. 75-100 Laps on suede and she’s back to shave ready.
My Dorko Barber’s Pride is on shave 41 since last hone with suede and leather stropping only (30/70). Previous test subject was Dovo BQ 6/8 that got to 77 that was still perfect before it was sold and (re-honed). I believe that was good for at least 100+...
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- #92
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
@ajduplessis, thanks for the results of your stroppless test. About on par with my part 1 result. For me, it wasn't so much tugging that finished the first razor, it was more about not being able to get a close enough shave result compared to identical SR's that were properly stropped.
BTW your 20 to 30 guess was pretty good.
Many seem to find that their SR's can go 50 to 100 shaves or more with just clean stroppping. That is good to know, particularly for a n00bie SR user with a truly shave-ready SR waiting for his whetstones to arrive.
BTW your 20 to 30 guess was pretty good.
Many seem to find that their SR's can go 50 to 100 shaves or more with just clean stroppping. That is good to know, particularly for a n00bie SR user with a truly shave-ready SR waiting for his whetstones to arrive.
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- #93
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
Shave No. 6 "Evening"
Yesterday (Saturday) was the 6th shave with "Evening" and its 5th without stroppping. This morning I shaved with "Sunday" to give me a comparison.
The result was no discernable different between the non-stropped "Evening" SR and the normally maintained "Sunday" SR, both in shave quality and comfort. This was so for both passes (WTG & XTG) and the Fool's Pass.
Over the next week I give "Evening" another six drives and report back.
Yesterday (Saturday) was the 6th shave with "Evening" and its 5th without stroppping. This morning I shaved with "Sunday" to give me a comparison.
The result was no discernable different between the non-stropped "Evening" SR and the normally maintained "Sunday" SR, both in shave quality and comfort. This was so for both passes (WTG & XTG) and the Fool's Pass.
Over the next week I give "Evening" another six drives and report back.
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- #94
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
Shave No. 11 "Evening"
Yesterday (Saturday) was the 11th shave with the "Evening" SR from my English M7DS and its 10th without stropping. On shave No. 9 with "Evening", I noticed just the faintest bit of tugging when performing the Fool's Pass. This remained the same with shave No's 10 and 11.
This morning I shaved with the normally maintained "Saturday" from the same M7DS to give me a comparison. The only difference between shaving with "Evening" and "Saturday" was the very faint tugging on the Fool's Pass with "Evening". It was hardly noticeable and still gave me a very smooth close shave. This faint tugging was also observed with "Vesperum" in Part 1 but at about shave No. 4. I wonder if this means the "Evening" will take about twice as long to deteriorate to the same level as "Vesperum".
I will report back here next weekend, unless something drastic happens beforehand with "Evening".
Yesterday (Saturday) was the 11th shave with the "Evening" SR from my English M7DS and its 10th without stropping. On shave No. 9 with "Evening", I noticed just the faintest bit of tugging when performing the Fool's Pass. This remained the same with shave No's 10 and 11.
This morning I shaved with the normally maintained "Saturday" from the same M7DS to give me a comparison. The only difference between shaving with "Evening" and "Saturday" was the very faint tugging on the Fool's Pass with "Evening". It was hardly noticeable and still gave me a very smooth close shave. This faint tugging was also observed with "Vesperum" in Part 1 but at about shave No. 4. I wonder if this means the "Evening" will take about twice as long to deteriorate to the same level as "Vesperum".
I will report back here next weekend, unless something drastic happens beforehand with "Evening".
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- #95
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
Shave No. 16 "Evening"
Yesterday (Saturday) was the 16th shave with the "Evening" SR from my English M7DS and its 15th without stropping. I did not notice any change during the week with this "Evening" SR in either closeness or comfort.
This morning I shaved with the normally maintained "Sunday" from the same M7DS to give me a comparison. Again, no noticable change between "Sunday" and "Evening" except for that faintest of tugging with "Evening" when going ATG on the upper lip (Fool's Pass). Other than that, they are still equal in performance.
I will be taking a break for a couple of weeks with this little bathroom experiment while I work on getting all the SR's in my Japanese M7DS up to about the same shaving standard as each other in that set. Next report here should be in about 3 or 4 weeks time.
Yesterday (Saturday) was the 16th shave with the "Evening" SR from my English M7DS and its 15th without stropping. I did not notice any change during the week with this "Evening" SR in either closeness or comfort.
This morning I shaved with the normally maintained "Sunday" from the same M7DS to give me a comparison. Again, no noticable change between "Sunday" and "Evening" except for that faintest of tugging with "Evening" when going ATG on the upper lip (Fool's Pass). Other than that, they are still equal in performance.
I will be taking a break for a couple of weeks with this little bathroom experiment while I work on getting all the SR's in my Japanese M7DS up to about the same shaving standard as each other in that set. Next report here should be in about 3 or 4 weeks time.
That's a new (to me) and interesting idea. That as the stop cleans iron oxide off the razor, some iron imbeds in the strop. In a tiny way, all our strops become pasted strops over time.
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- #97
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
Shave No. 19 "Evening"
I finished up on my Japanese M7DS last Wedensday, earlier than expected. For Thursday, Friday and Saturday I was able to do some more shaves with the "Evening"SR.
Yesterday (Saturday) was the 19th shave with the "Evening" SR from my English M7DS and its 18th without stropping. Again I did not notice any change with this "Evening" SR in either closeness or comfort.
This morning I shaved with the normally maintained "Sunday" from the same M7DS to give me a comparison. Again, no noticable change between "Sunday" and "Evening" except for that faintest of tugging with "Evening" when going ATG on the upper lip (Fool's Pass). Other than that, they are still equal in performance.
Now for the bad news. For the past few days a fellow has been hounding me for a shave-ready Titan ACRO T.H.70, the same as my evening razor. I had none spare except for my "Evening" SR. Yesterday he made me a financial offer that was too good to refuse as he needed it by next Saturday. If he pays me tomorrow (Monday), I will refresh the edge on "Evening" and pass it on to him. I will then order another Titan ACRO T.H.70 to replace my loss.
Once my new "Evening" SR arrives, I will then decide if it's worth restarting Part 2 of this edge longevity test. What do you think, is it worth it?
I finished up on my Japanese M7DS last Wedensday, earlier than expected. For Thursday, Friday and Saturday I was able to do some more shaves with the "Evening"SR.
Yesterday (Saturday) was the 19th shave with the "Evening" SR from my English M7DS and its 18th without stropping. Again I did not notice any change with this "Evening" SR in either closeness or comfort.
This morning I shaved with the normally maintained "Sunday" from the same M7DS to give me a comparison. Again, no noticable change between "Sunday" and "Evening" except for that faintest of tugging with "Evening" when going ATG on the upper lip (Fool's Pass). Other than that, they are still equal in performance.
Now for the bad news. For the past few days a fellow has been hounding me for a shave-ready Titan ACRO T.H.70, the same as my evening razor. I had none spare except for my "Evening" SR. Yesterday he made me a financial offer that was too good to refuse as he needed it by next Saturday. If he pays me tomorrow (Monday), I will refresh the edge on "Evening" and pass it on to him. I will then order another Titan ACRO T.H.70 to replace my loss.
Once my new "Evening" SR arrives, I will then decide if it's worth restarting Part 2 of this edge longevity test. What do you think, is it worth it?
