Historical Retrospective: B&B Shaving Soap Perspectives from 15 Years Ago

[PLANofMAN]

Interesting thread. I've only been here six years, but started using traditional shaving soaps and creams rather than the can o' foam well before that. IMO, the biggest change over the years has been the proliferation of new DE razors, including at the top of the high end. Trends in soaps as seen at B&B seem to be more of a fashion thing, much like, pardon the unmanly reference, perfumes. I found and tried Proraso early on as it was for sale locally on the shelves (no longer) and for only $5 (again, no longer). When I joined here, Proraso was still considered great stuff, especially for shaving soap beginners. Not so much any more, though I still like and use it. The artisan soaps seem to have taken over most of the discussion.

I've noticed other trends. For example, sandalwood soaps once were very popular, or at least provoked much discussion. I rarely see them mentioned now. That's fine with me, as the only sandalwood soap I've tried that has what I consider the genuine scent is the Mysore brand from India, and that is only available as bath soap. But I'm sure they will return to fashion some day.

Proraso red (as far as I know) still contains real sandalwood oil. It's just a smidgen, given the price of Proraso, but there nonetheless.

Between the rising cost of sandalwood oil, EU perfume restrictions, and the tendency of synthetic Sandalwood scents to cause allergic reactions, I'm not surprised to see Sandalwood falling by the wayside as a scent base.

...disappointed, but not surprised.

Edit: It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Proraso sells more soap and cream than all the American "artisans" combined. Just because it doesn't get hyped up, doesn't mean it doesn't get used by millions of traditional wet shavers who just don't care enough about wet shaving to make it a hobby like we do.

 

[nickm]

MWF is one of the staples I haven’t tried yet. Almost finished with a puck of Tabac and I probably won’t buy another. I found it too pasty. Even with tons of water. The scent is interesting but I can live without it.

Haven’t seen MWF. I would encourage you to keep some of the tabac sticks around. You might appreciate them more in a few years. Stick for you might be easier application.

 

[nickm]

You serious, Clark? Not sure if you’re being sarcastic.

Caswell Massey and I recall one of the US Presidents stocked it exclusively in the White House because he liked it so much

 

[Darth Scandalous]

Just because it doesn't get hyped up, doesn't mean it doesn't get used by millions of traditional wet shavers

Proraso Red is the most used soap in my rotation, partly because it's cheap, smells ok, and performs well, but mostly because my skin likes it better than any soaps I've tried. Which is odd considering how much residue it leaves on EVERYTHING. My chin is prone to breakouts but I've had basically none since I started using Proraso regularly.

 

[PLANofMAN]

Proraso Red is the most used soap in my rotation, partly because it's cheap, smells ok, and performs well, but mostly because my skin likes it better than any soaps I've tried. Which is odd considering how much residue it leaves on EVERYTHING. My chin is prone to breakouts but I've had basically none since I started using Proraso regularly.

It's the only soap I have that aggressively marks it's territory. I keep a can of scrubbing bubbles around almost exclusively because of that one single soap.

On the flip side, it's also about the only soap I tried in the first few years of wet shaving that I still re-order. It wasn't around when I first got into wet shaving. IIRC, Proraso Red was some sort of oatmeal based soap/shave cream. Good stuff, as I recall. Discontinued shortly after I tried it, and replaced shortly after with the sandalwood.

There was some grumbling in the forum when they discontinued the red, but it mostly subsided when they re-booted the red and introduced the white.

 

[PLANofMAN]

His name is Joe G. I still talk with him on Facebook. He's doing well.

"People" made him quit the business, unfortunately. It's kind of a long story.

That caused a few neurons to fire in my brain that had been dormant.

Let me see if I get the TLDR version right.

Joe wasn't great at communicating with his customers, so when some kind of emergency (family, personal, or otherwise) ended up with him not being able to ship orders out for about two months, no contact from him to his customers resulted in a ton of PayPal charge backs/refunds. This caused PayPal to suspend his account, effectively cutting off his money and ending his business.

His website also went offline for a bit, which exacerbated the problem.

That about sum it up?

 

[mozartman]

Proraso red (as far as I know) still contains real sandalwood oil. It's just a smidgen, given the price of Proraso, but there nonetheless.

Between the rising cost of sandalwood oil, EU perfume restrictions, and the tendency of synthetic Sandalwood scents to cause allergic reactions, I'm not surprised to see Sandalwood falling by the wayside as a scent base.

...disappointed, but not surprised.

Edit: It wouldn't surprise me in the least if Proraso sells more soap and cream than all the American "artisans" combined. Just because it doesn't get hyped up, doesn't mean it doesn't get used by millions of traditional wet shavers who just don't care enough about wet shaving to make it a hobby like we do.

Yes, no doubt that's true. I also suspect that shave soaps in general, and soaps in general, contain only a smidgen, if any, of any expensive fragrances, not just genuine sandalwood oil. But to be clear, I've long been a Proraso fan and user of their shave soap for sensitive skin, aka Proraso white, as well as the aftershave balm or cream. It doesn't matter to me if it is too common for hobbyists.

On the other hand, I'm fine with artisan soaps too, and think their often higher cost is at least in some cases justified. This is not because of any rare and exotic ingredients, but because the vastly smaller production quantities, and the additional time and care that generally goes into artisan products compared to mass-produced ones, almost inevitably results in higher unit costs. Whether the results are worth it is in significant part a subjective thing.

 

[steelwindmachine]

I joined nearly 12 years ago, probably lurked for a year or so before that after getting fed up with the irritation and ingrown hairs from my Gillette 3-blade cartridges and Edge Gel. I remember Google searching, "how to get a better shave"...somewhere in the results was Mantic59, badger and blade and a few other forums that I checked out.

As others have surmised, the options now completely eclipse that of what was available then. A vast range of quality vs. price on all fronts. It's dizzying and overwhelming. I do wish I had found all this sooner, but no one else in my life wet shaved or taught me anything about shaving. I owe a lot to the initial group of forum strangers who advised me on how to treat my face better.

I went dark on the site for several years and recently resurfaced several months ago to investigate some more efficient hardware.

I've gone through ups and downs with numerous products, but am in a great sweet spot.

thank you!

 

[Wgg2017]

Excellent summary by @Lane101. A great trip down memory lane!

 

[tankerjohn]

As others have surmised, the options now completely eclipse that of what was available then. A vast range of quality vs. price on all fronts. It's dizzying and overwhelming.

So true! And yet we tend to get more worked up about stuff like the discontinuation of Floid Blue.

 

[htownmmm]

So true! And yet we tend to get more worked up about stuff like the discontinuation of Floid Blue.

And the many other shave products that have been discontinued since I've been here(2006):

C&E Sweet Almond Oil and Sandalwood SC
Gillette Swedes,7 O'Clock Blacks, 7 O'Clock Blues
AOS, MWF, Tabac, Penhaligon's, Speick shave soaps removal of tallow
Williams SS
Sir Irisch Moos
Erasmic SC

I'm pretty sure I left many off but this is from the top of my head without going through my stash. Now, when I find a product I like, I stock up on it automatically!

marty

 

[DesertIguana]

It’s quite amazing to think how recently premium artisan shaving gear arrived on the scene - soaps, razors, brushes, and aftershaves. We’re probably just at the start of it.

Just for interest, is there a good thread anywhere explaining what happened with tallow in soaps? When and why so many tallow soaps were discontinued or replaced, and why we still have plenty of tallow soaps on the market? I missed all of that.

Maybe people in USA need think long term v/s how they think in recent years.

Have to h add be latest greatest, no more keeping up with family down block, it keep up with the ultra wealthy.

Got to have latest, greatest, because they buy into advertising.

They are like golfer who know a new super driver will turn from duffer to tour pro.

Can’t by game, you get game by paying dues with work.

 

[CzechCzar]

I started posting in December of 2006, I think. I love to reminisce. There weren't so many choices.

In the old days, artisan soaps were made of mostly glycerine. Mama Bear, Honeybee, Gentlemen's Quarter, etc.

Artisan Hot process soaps (B&M, GD, DG, WK, ZM, GN, NO, etc. ) simply did not exist.

Creams ruled the forum because, in most cases, they worked better than soaps. They were usually European. TOBS, Trumpers, T+H, Crabtree + Evelyn, Proraso, Nivea, Erasmic, Speick, Florena, Omega, The Body Shop, etc.

There weren't tons of retailers. superlather.com. Tryphon. Smallflower. ebay. Westcoastshaving showed up relatively early considering it's still around. Italianbarber was definitely on the early side too.

Italianbarber was a gamechanger for me because I quickly became fond of Italian soft soaps. (P160, Valobra, Figaro, Fitness, 3P, Prep, Cella, etc) I bought 2 kilos of P160 back in '09 or so. I still have quite a bit of it. It still shaves great. IB also introduced me to milled steel razors which kind of ruined vintage DE razors for me.

Speaking of, Vintage razors were interesting back in 2006 because they were DIRT CHEAP, and they shaved better than modern razors. The only modern razors in '06 were Merkur. I really don't even remember Edwin Jagger being available until 2008 or so. Around that time, I had a "Goodfella" razor from New Zealand. I still have it, actually. It was a little, zamac, open-comb razor. Super mild, but great handle design.

Speaking of gamechangers, the second chapter of my shaving career that reinvigorated my journey was Mr. Fine. I 3017'ed 3 pucks in a row. I still like the pucks and the splashes. Simple, and perfect.


Overall, the quality has gone WAY up on almost everything. Prices have come down on quite a bit of stuff due to the abundance of choices. Blades used to be VERY expensive. I paid $40/100 for Gillette Platinum Russians without a second thought, and that was in 2009 dollars MUCH earlier in my career.

The biggest disappointments over the years:
P.160 going out of business.
Valobra going out of business
L'Occitane discontinuing Cade splash, then releasing the EDT that smells nothing like the splash. This store is shadow of its former self.
Floid discontinuing Blue
Proraso slowly reducing the menthol on everything with each reformulation.
Omega moving production from Proraso to somebody else.
Vito's aftershave splashes disappearing. Colonia, amber, Acqua, etc.
Fine discontinuing their hard soaps.
Gillette discontinuing Russian Blue 7OC blades

That's all I have to add right now. This was fun. Great thread idea.

BTW, my first soap post was on page 640 (the 7th page EVER in this forum)

As a Williams aficionado it's funny how many folks now revere the soap and bemoan that it was discontinued. See folks trying to sell it for $15 $20 on Amazon and Ebay.

What is also interesting is, that as @taffy noted above, Mitchell's was and still is considered an excellent classic soap and yet has many similarities to Williams. I use and like both in part because they are very similar. I've found that they are both great soaps with very similar lathering characteristics from an ease of use and performance perspective. They are my only two soaps that work best with a good stiff boar brush. Not surprising since the top three ingredients of MWF and Williams are the same. The main differences between these soaps are in the areas of aroma (I like both) and MWF does provide a slightly better post shave feel - likely due to the lanolin.

I became intrigued by MWF while using Williams after reading all the B&B MWF reviews that in many ways sounded just like those of Williams (mixed perspectives with some who use nothing else combined with lots of mentions by others of lathering difficulty).

While YMMV always applies I suspect that many of these historical perspectives stem from how the soaps are sold. In marketing first impressions matter and a 99 cent naked Williams puck of soap in a plain box on the supermarket shelf will often be perceived as inferior to a $15 more luxuriously packaged (paper wrapping inside with both and inner and outer box with nice "old school" logos & copy) MWF puck that is imported from the U.K.

With Williams discontinued I'm glad B&Bers have MWF to fall back on.

Add MWF to the dead list.

 

[Lane101]

Add MWF to the dead list.

Just another example of a key theme of this thread that change in our shaving choices and preferences is ongoing. Likely accelerated over the past few years due to the effects of the pandemic.

Would draw a different conclusion on MWF - like many other soaps that have been reformulated it is now different. Up to each of us to decide if the new formulation is something we prefer. Per the recent test comparison thread on the new MWF formulation YMMV clearly applies. Same with the recent Tabac reformulation, that works well for me, there there are a variety of valid perspectives due to YMMV.

Happy July 4th everyone!

 

[tankerjohn]

And the many other shave products that have been discontinued since I've been here(2006):

C&E Sweet Almond Oil and Sandalwood SC
Gillette Swedes,7 O'Clock Blacks, 7 O'Clock Blues
AOS, MWF, Tabac, Penhaligon's, Speick shave soaps removal of tallow
Williams SS
Sir Irisch Moos
Erasmic SC

I'm pretty sure I left many off but this is from the top of my head without going through my stash. Now, when I find a product I like, I stock up on it automatically!

marty

Wait, what?! MWF doesn't have tallow anymore? Its Mitchell's Wool Veg now? OMG, I totally missed that.

 

[CzechCzar]

Wait, what?! MWF doesn't have tallow anymore? Its Mitchell's Wool Veg now? OMG, I totally missed that.

Mitchell's palm junk doesn't have quite the same ring does it

 

[htownmmm]

Wait, what?! MWF doesn't have tallow anymore? Its Mitchell's Wool Veg now? OMG, I totally missed that.

Mitchells Wool Fat Shaving Soap is no longer Tallow based

RIP Tallow MWF My favourite tallow based shaving soap, which was cheap and easy to find in the UK is now reformulated into a palm oil based formulation.

www.badgerandblade.com

For your perusal.

marty

 

[tankerjohn]

Mitchell's palm junk doesn't have quite the same ring does it

no, not quite

 

[tankerjohn]

Mitchells Wool Fat Shaving Soap is no longer Tallow based

RIP Tallow MWF My favourite tallow based shaving soap, which was cheap and easy to find in the UK is now reformulated into a palm oil based formulation.

www.badgerandblade.com

For your perusal.

marty

Thanks. Wow, stop paying attention for a couple months because I already have too much soap and this happens. And its the one classic I hadn't quite gotten around to trying. Hope I can scrape up some old stock somewhere. While I'm at it, I guess I better stock up on Doctor Harris before it goes the way of the 3T's too.

 

[mhdena]

I joined here in 2011 and was able to sample and then acquire lifetime supplies of several soon to be discontinued products.
AOS Tallow Lemon & Sandalwood
Irisch Moos Sticks
Tabac Tallow
PolSilvers Super Iridium
Gillette 7 O'clock Blues Russian and Czech
Gillette Platinum
Several Morris & Foundran brushes direct from Lee Sabini

If you have favorites, stock up before they disappear.