So from what I understand wedge razors were often honed with the spine slightly off the stone. I’m assuming that this was a common method prior to the common use of tape. Does anyone have any historical references on this topic? I kind of wonder how wedges were handled in an attempt to make sure the work made it all the way out to the Apex. Thanks
Historical precedent for freehand Honing?
- Thread starter lightfoot
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Wedge razors were honed like any other razor, with both the spine and the edge simultaneously resting on the surface of the hone. I've posted about this topic extensively and I don't want to type it all out again tbh but to summarize in some important points:
1. There have never been any razors made as "true wedges" (ie. razors with flat faces) all razors in the Western world, as far back as one can account for, were ground on some sort of abrasive wheel. Wheels always make a concave surface.
2. The razors out there that do have flat faces can therefore only be the result of a couple things; extremely poor grinding or enough honing as to eliminate any concavity in the face of the razor.
3. It is obvious from literature that razor makers explicitly understood that the primary need for concavity in the face of a razor was to decrease the surface area that would need to be abraded to create a sharp edge in an expeditious manner.
4. Where it is mentioned in literature, it is always explicitly conveyed to the reader that both the back and the edge of the razor should touch the hone.
5. There are circumstances in the literature where it is deemed acceptable to raise the spine of a razor, poor metallurgy or too thin of a spine. This is obviously conveyed as an aberration to the usual method of honing.
6. I have images of a salesman's sample of razors from the mid to late 1800's, which were sealed behind glass in wooden cases, never used, with obvious factory hone wear on the spine.
Some excerpts: (Take notes of the dates, all before the advent of hollow ground razors).
A Treatise on Razors, 6th Edition, Benjamin Kingsbury, 1810:
The Magazine of Domestic Economy, 1840:
Mechanics' Magazine and Journal of Science, Arts, and Manufactures, Volume 6, 1827:
Cyclopaedia of Useful Arts, Mechanical and Chemical, Manufactures, Mining and Engineering, Charles Tomlinson, 1868:
(Notice the sentence, "it is held as before but placed quite flat down so as to touch on the back and edge.")
Images of the Salesman's Set. Notice the hone wear on the spine.
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- #4
Thanks so much for the response. Now I did comb through some of your prior post for about an hour and I was not able to find anything specific. I’m sure I overlooked something so sorry for having to repeat yourself yet again. But I do think this is valuable information. Thanks
I've owned wedges without concave grinding, yes, checked with a straightedge. Hell - I've had wedges with convex sides which can also be done on a wheel. Rattlers are done on a wheel too.
I've also owned many wedges that had zero (none, nada, zippo) wear above the bevel. Honed with the 'spine' up off the stone for sure.
Of course, I have also had wedges that had miniscule grinds, a bit more grind than that, and all sorts of grinds up to the 'near wedge' zone - some of them had zero wear above the bevel too. And, yes, some had s carp-ton of wear as though honed flat on a stone.
Dovo, I think, used to have a document or pamphlet or something that suggested wedges were to be sharpened on a loom strop edge leading. Yes, edge leading. Never did it myself and I have no idea where a copy of that 'article' would be found. But I do remember reading it.
Lotsa cats, lotsa skins, lotsa methods.
I've also owned many wedges that had zero (none, nada, zippo) wear above the bevel. Honed with the 'spine' up off the stone for sure.
Of course, I have also had wedges that had miniscule grinds, a bit more grind than that, and all sorts of grinds up to the 'near wedge' zone - some of them had zero wear above the bevel too. And, yes, some had s carp-ton of wear as though honed flat on a stone.
Dovo, I think, used to have a document or pamphlet or something that suggested wedges were to be sharpened on a loom strop edge leading. Yes, edge leading. Never did it myself and I have no idea where a copy of that 'article' would be found. But I do remember reading it.
Lotsa cats, lotsa skins, lotsa methods.
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- #6
In the long article towards the end of the initial response I found it interesting that they recommended heating the blade with hot water just prior to post Shave and Stropping. This is fascinating to me.
Nice comprehensive dissertation here from The Gentleman's Companion to the Toilet, Or a Treatise on Shaving ... by a London Hair-dresser, 1844:
Some sound advice (keeping a razor flat on the hone) along with some bizarre advice (dip your razor in acid) in The Domestic Service Guide to Housekeeping; Practical Cookery, Etc, 1865:
Honestly, there's so much more out there, but my concluding thoughts are this:
Historical precedence is that wedge razors should be honed with the spine and edge on the stone. Caveats are mostly for razors which have some kind of deficiency in their manufacture and are, as such, the exception to the rule.
Honestly, there's so much more out there, but my concluding thoughts are this:
Historical precedence is that wedge razors should be honed with the spine and edge on the stone. Caveats are mostly for razors which have some kind of deficiency in their manufacture and are, as such, the exception to the rule.
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- #9
How did you track down all of this reference material if you don’t mind the question?
And the 1st edition of this text I imagine was significantly earlier. It's vanishingly rare to find the 'long s' used in any 19th century print (excluding reprinted editions). It had basically completely died out by then.
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- #11
Ok thanks. It was right in front of me…
The first edition was published in May of 1798. I’ve seen the long S in early 19th century works (originals not reprints) but nothing after around 1820.
Ok thanks. It was right in front of me…
?
I was just making an observation about typography, as I find it interesting. Though I respect your right not to.
Don’t think he was being hostile, just that sometimes you can forget about things like the long S and end up wondering what the heck is going on with all these f’s before you put it together. I still get momentarily confused even though I do my daily Bible reading from a facsimile copy of a 1st Edition King James. Solomons Fong?
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- #15
I actually owned a 1611 facsimile in the same type set for some time. Very interesting how English lettering has evolved over time.
If I'm not mistaken, I think it started to die out in America shortly after the revolutionary War.
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- #18
So I don’t mean to derail my own thread but I did some experimenting around with heating up the blade with hot tapwater and then moving to the strop post Shave. And sure is the world if I look very carefully with my magnification I can absolutely see a slight angle difference in the bevel. At roughly the halfway point between the grind side of the bevel facing and the edge side of the bevel facing I observed a slight difference in light reflection. I’ve never observed that before after stropping. I don’t use a lot of pressure so there must be something to the idea that preheating the blade before stropping makes the steel at least somewhat more malleable although it’s probably limited.
