Hindostan Info/Photos/ID Thread

[ErieSurfer]

I think I've figured out why some stones are found to have been used on the layered side.

I went to use this hindo yesterday for the FIRST time since lapping it. Lo and behold, there's a chip in the surface. I know that was not there when I finished lapping.

Griswold describes hindo as being quarried like a slate:

 

[cotedupy]

Here we go then, the big one, a stone that nobody thought existed, the Norton Fastcut Benchstone...

---

To explain...

A little while back I decided to try to collect all of the Norton natural benchstones, as they appeared in the original 1935 catalogue after the Pike takeover and re-branding. And tbh I did it as much because I liked the design and the box style as for the stones themselves.

I had a few of them already, and the others were relatively easy to find, though the India x Washita combi took a while. The really difficult one though was the Fastcut, there weren't even any pictures of them apart from the small and blurry catalogue pic.

A number of people here and on KKF knew about my slightly random/silly endeavour though, and were keeping an eye out for me. A few found the Pike version which pops up occasionally from time to time, but I was beginning to think the Norton version in this style box might not have ever made it to production and existed only on paper.

Until about a month ago, when I got a message from @ables who had heroically snapped one up for me the moment it appeared on US ebay... and now the collection is complete! I don't have all these stones with me atm for a full family lineup, but here are the rest of them (including a couple of synths):

Shout out also to the rest of the team: @stringer bean who flagged the Washita x India combi and proxy shipped that and the QC. @2bit_collie who swapped his No.1 with me. And @Empire straights and @ErieSurfer who both flagged the last Pike Fastcut that came up in case I was interested (which I would have been but already had one).

 

[2bit_collie]

Here we go then, the big one, a stone that nobody thought existed, the Norton Fastcut Benchstone...

View attachment 1579281

View attachment 1579282

---

To explain...

A little while back I decided to try to collect all of the Norton natural benchstones, as they appeared in the original 1935 catalogue after the Pike takeover and re-branding. And tbh I did it as much because I liked the design and the box style as for the stones themselves.

I had a few of them already, and the others were relatively easy to find, though the India x Washita combi took a while. The really difficult one though was the Fastcut, there weren't even any pictures of them apart from the small and blurry catalogue pic.

A number of people here and on KKF knew about my slightly random/silly endeavour though, and were keeping an eye out for me. A few found the Pike version which pops up occasionally from time to time, but I was beginning to think the Norton version in this style box might not have ever made it to production and existed only on paper.

Until about a month ago, when I got a message from @ables who had heroically snapped one up for me the moment it appeared on US ebay... and now the collection is complete! I don't have all these stones with me atm for a full family lineup, but here are the rest of them (including a couple of synths):

View attachment 1579295


Shout out also to the rest of the team: @stringer bean who flagged the Washita x India combi and proxy shipped that and the QC. @2bit_collie who swapped his No.1 with me. And @Empire straights and @ErieSurfer who both flagged the last Pike Fastcut that came up in case I was interested (which I would have been but already had one).

Congrats on completing the collection!

 

[Pack line]

New acquisition, sellers pictures, everything is currently in a bath of green.

 

[duke762]

Cotedupy, I've never seen or heard of an India Washita. Is it a natural stone?

 

[ables]

Cotedupy, I've never seen or heard of an India Washita. Is it a natural stone?

He's talking about the India x Washita combo stone thst Pike/Norton sold for a while. It has two stones glued together, man made India and Washita. A real sweet stone and all most people would ever need for knives/shop tools.

 

[duke762]

Cool, that makes more sense. Thanks for the explanation!

 

[cotedupy]

Cotedupy, I've never seen or heard of an India Washita. Is it a natural stone?

Yep - what Able said. It's a Coarse India x Washita combi - a pretty much perfect conception.

It came 7 or 8 x 2", and also as a 3 x 1 1/3" pocketstone called the 'Sportsman'. Here are my two together:

 

[cotedupy]

Speaking of which; the Norton Sportsman came in a number of guises, usually a Coarse India with something finer stuck on top.

But here's a very interesesting NOS stone I picked up recently, which I'd not seen before. 'J' is Norton's product code for Crystolon, 'K' is Queer Creek. So this is the Crystolon x QC Pocketstone:

(I figure we perhaps don't need a whole new thread for Queer Creeks. )

 

[cotedupy]

Another interesting thing to note here is that the Norton Fastcut was also produced as a standalone pocketstone. However in the smaller size it wasn't a Hindostan like my benchstone version above, it was a Queer Creek - product code KP13. Second picture is a stone belonging to @David.

 

[Pack line]

Out of the green, hot water rinses, over night soak in hot water, followed by more rinses. First time i have ever bought a hindo that i was 90% sure it was a hindo. Usually just get an oily black rock that turns out to be a hindo. Now it is into a box of sawdust for a week or 2 before lapping. I really can't comprehend why anyone wears a stone to this degree, not sure what i will be doing with it when it comes time to lap...

 

[mazemaze]

I have two stones which show sedimentary layering on the sides, one is a Hindostan the other one, what I believe to be a Magog Oilstone. The first one is like a sandstone, the second has the feel of a novaculite. So for me there are definitely both stones. The Magog being much finer.

 

[mazemaze]

Don´t know if somebody already postet this link, so here you go:
It is about the geology of vermont and mentions the magog oilstone from the island.

Report on the Geology of Vermont

books.google.at

 

[gbupp]

For Hindostan stones, do the visual qualities correlate at all with how the stone will perform? Of course, I understand the usual disclaimer that each stone is unique but are there any broad correlations or is it really just roll of the dice? It seems like there are both grey leaning and tan leaning ones.

 

[cotedupy]

For Hindostan stones, do the visual qualities correlate at all with how the stone will perform? Of course, I understand the usual disclaimer that each stone is unique but are there any broad correlations or is it really just roll of the dice? It seems like there are both grey leaning and tan leaning ones.

I've not found much of a correlation tbh.

Also - original colour differences are quite difficult discern on most of them nowadays because they're so difficult to degrease. And also sandstones can have a bit of a tendency to permanently change colour after use with oil, no matter how long you soak them. Don't ask me why. Dalmores are very obvious example of that - you can never degrease a Dalmore back to its original colour.

 

[gbupp]

I've not found much of a correlation tbh.

Also - original colour differences are quite difficult discern on most of them nowadays because they're so difficult to degrease. And also sandstones can have a bit of a tendency to permanently change colour after use with oil, no matter how long you soak them. Don't ask me why. Dalmores are very obvious example of that - you can never degrease a Dalmore back to its original colour.

Thanks! Do you think the grey or the tan is the "color changed" ones? I know its not a broad rule, just curious what direction the color change happens in.

 

[ables]

Thanks! Do you think the grey or the tan is the "color changed" ones? I know its not a broad rule, just curious what direction the color change happens in.

I think they are very light colored when new, and can be greyish or tan or a touch of orange.

In my post linked below the Fastcutt stone on the left was practically unused and the smaller stone next to it was 100% unused. The stone on the right was dirty as could be but cleaned up very well and is a pretty light color. But sometimes they just refuse to clean up as the dirty one shows. I also have a new one currently that refuses to get clean and is soaking.

In my limited experience hindostan fall into two categories of fine/powdery feeling and harder/crystalline like. The Pike fastcut is very powdery and that dirty one linked is crystalline.

Here's my group of hindostan stones:

Dry:
View attachment 1539739
Wet:
View attachment 1539741
Side layers:
View attachment 1539742
View attachment 1539743

The Pike Fastcut, smaller one, and largest one are really similar. The more colored one from UK (thanks @cotedupy) and a bit different with a more crystalline structure and less powdery feel. It can start to glaze over however but is faster when freshly lapped. The powdery hindostans kind of stay the same grit and don't glaze.

I've been enjoying them alot as knife stones but you really need to apply some pressure to get the swarf going and decent feedback. With a razor it kind of feels like the steel is just gliding over unless you apply torque which i dont particularly like to do. The slurry isnt great to hone on either. So not that great for razors because of this. I tried a couple shaves off directly off the largest and the smallest, not great.

I think for razors there are alot better mid range/pre finisher natural stones such as dalmore, tsushima, coticules, bbw, ect

 

[Empire straights]

I've not found much of a correlation tbh.

Also - original colour differences are quite difficult discern on most of them nowadays because they're so difficult to degrease. And also sandstones can have a bit of a tendency to permanently change colour after use with oil, no matter how long you soak them. Don't ask me why. Dalmores are very obvious example of that - you can never degrease a Dalmore back to its original colour.

How do hindos compare to queer creek stones? I've got a qc that's like new and the little I used it I actually liked it. They are slow but they are also sandstone so I knew pressure was my friend. I've never used a Hindo but since they were both sandstones I figured I'd ask how they match up. I'll eventually get a fast cut Hindo, especially since I know they're out there bigger than an axe stone, but to be fair axes is what I'll probably use on it most.

 

[cotedupy]

Thanks! Do you think the grey or the tan is the "color changed" ones? I know its not a broad rule, just curious what direction the color change happens in.

I'm not entirely certain tbh. Like Able said - the do sometimes clean up to pretty much completely white. And I suspect mostly would've been like that with or without some orange patterns. Though my two fastcut stones I'm pretty sure were never particularly white.

How do hindos compare to queer creek stones?

A fair bit finer, and sometimes a bit faster. A's distinction between the softer/powdery and harder/crystalline type is an interesting one too, because the difference is quite marked. The powdery type are lighter in terms of density, more friable, coarser finishing, and quite a lot faster. The crystalline type are fine and slow.

 

[gbupp]

I have recently gotten a few Hindostans to test out and they have really won me over. They may be my favorite all around stone at this point, and I've tried quite a diverse spectrum of stones. They fit into such an interesting and useful range, being able to both do earlier level fast metal removal and go all the way up to a razor finisher. Coticles can of course do a similar range, but I find the Hindostan lends itself easier to it and doesn't have as much fickleness about it. The price is much better as well!

I'm sure not all have such range or are coarser - the three I have so far have all been similar performance and are the finer variety. Very much what people look for out of Aizu stones the Hindostan delivers when refreshed often (it needs to be refreshed more than an Aizu by comparison) but has the ability to really take things further.

Of course, an Aizu has no hope of actually finishing a razor whereas the conditioned surface of a Hindostan can, so they are certainly different beasts. Usually, Hindostans do not seem to be lookers and unfortunately a great deal of them have been used with oil and degreasing them turns them even more bland looking. The third one I got and I attached pictures of is a beautiful example that wasn't used with oil. Actually, I'm not convinced it was ever used at all besides being banged up in storage over the years. Thus far I haven't seen another Hindostan like it, but maybe more used to look this before oil and degreasing - who knows. Wet and dry picture. Slurry comes up a very nice pink and it has a very nice smell to it!