High power microscope images of bevel and edge

[towliff]

Hi All,

This is NOT a post about edge quality / shave quality etc using a microscope to judge it.

This is a simple "I have an insane microscope at work and I fancied using it on my razor edge" post. I just wanted to share some cool pics.
For reference, the microscope is a Keyence VHX7000 with optical magnification between 20x to 6000x.

Here are images of my Dovo pearlex razor edge. I honed it last night on Shapton G7 stones, up to the 0.44um grit. The lens used, magnification and scale are on all the images.

In the next post (can only put in 10 pics at a time), I laid the razor on its back and tried to image (and measure) the apex directly. The microscope has a call side view camera to show the focal plane (to help positioning / focussing on your sample) so I took a screenshot of that too.

Enjoy!

James

 

[towliff]

Edge as promised

 

[Calou]

Thank you so much for sharing.
Magnificent magnification progression with very nice sharp images.
This allows you to better understand what you can see depending on the level of magnification.
Without passing judgment, this allows you to ask the question: what magnification to see what. but also what is the level that explains the feeling of shaving?

 

[Herrenberg]

Those pictures are superb. It's not even a real microscope, right? It's some sort of wonderful complex modern technology IIRC. I was looking covetously at the thing a while back, until I found out that it doesn't cost that much less than my first house did.

 

[towliff]

Thanks for the nice comments!

I don’t think you can realistically use just a microscope to judge the shave quality. You can get a great looking image yet the apex is not refined - I had that exact thing - well polished bevel but did not spend long enough on the low grits so I did absolutely nothing on the stone to the bit that mattered (but it did look pretty!) haha.

Also, the more you magnify, the more you see (nothing is flat). So magnifying till it looks chippy / rough doesn’t necessarily help or tell you anything! Hence why I try not to use a microscope for that. I purely use my usb microscope to see if I have honed up to the edge. For reference, I shaved with that edge this morning and it felt fine, quite smooth actually. But it wasn’t as sharp as I’d like it - I should / could have refined the edge a lot more to get the keenness I like.


Yeah, that microscope is cray cray money!!!

Also, one thing to realise is that at those high magnifications, the image gets diffraction limited for the size of the features we are trying to see (edge apex is roughly the same size as the wavelength of the light used to image is). This makes it difficult/impossible to image real detail / features of the apex

 

[JaggardJ]

There's chips on that edge at 1000x. Back to the hones!

 

[Calou]

Before, I had a very precise image in my head of what an ideal edge should be. After a wonderful shave I placed the edge under the scope. and since this very precise image in my head has gone up in smoke.

 

[JPO]

Hi All,

This is NOT a post about edge quality / shave quality etc using a microscope to judge it.

This is a simple "I have an insane microscope at work and I fancied using it on my razor edge" post. I just wanted to share some cool pics.
For reference, the microscope is a Keyence VHX7000 with optical magnification between 20x to 6000x.

Here are images of my Dovo pearlex razor edge. I honed it last night on Shapton G7 stones, up to the 0.44um grit. The lens used, magnification and scale are on all the images.

In the next post (can only put in 10 pics at a time), I laid the razor on its back and tried to image (and measure) the apex directly. The microscope has a call side view camera to show the focal plane (to help positioning / focussing on your sample) so I took a screenshot of that too.

Enjoy!

James

I thought there was something wrong with my 0.44 G7. I see some of the same edge characteristics as you show here. The purple 30k is a little gentler to the edge, in my experience.

Nice images.

 

[Slash McCoy]

I made some pics a few years ago at up to 2000x and it is really touchy and fiddly, with lots of ghosts and little gremlin lights for lack of a better word, caused by I guess refraction and difraction at nearly the limit of realistic and practical optical magnification. I suppose using the shortest possible wavelength of light for illumination, and plenty of it, might help. Everything gets sort of monochrome, anyway.

 

[towliff]

Yeah, that’s exactly it. The light with diffract around object of the same size. So as you said, the only way around it is to use smaller wavelength.

The light source in that microscope I used is white, so there will be some blue in there - meaning it should be able to detect features up to about 450nm. But it won’t be pretty and as you said - has lots of odd artefacts.


I don’t have a uv scope or access to an electron microscope anymore.. so that’s the best I’m gunna get!!

 

[StellaNova]

Very nice @towliff. I have often wondered how a shave ready apex would look.
Thank you for sharing.

Do you have any natural finishing stones that you can use to compare synthetic vs natural edges ?
That would be very interesting as well. No pressure

 

[towliff]

I thought there was something wrong with my 0.44 G7. I see some of the same edge characteristics as you show here. The purple 30k is a little gentler to the edge, in my experience.

Nice images.

I’m not the best honer out there, so don’t really know what the edge off the 0.44um stone should be like.

I need to hone a lot more to dial it all in properly

 

[towliff]

Very nice @towliff. I have often wondered how a shave ready apex would look.
Thank you for sharing.

Do you have any natural finishing stones that you can use to compare synthetic vs natural edges ?
That would be very interesting as well. No pressure

I do plan to do this. The only naturals I have are coticules.

Takes me AAAAGES to get a good edge of them as I’m not the best honer. When I do, I’ll try to get some pics.

I have a very glassy coticule, a Les latneuses and a la nouvelle plus another one which I don’t know the layer. All feel different with the razor on it, so I assume would give a slightly different edge.

Will take me a long time to do all that though, but I sure can try

 

[Calou]

Maybe the right move is to take an edge that shaves the way you like it and then pass it under the scope. Then, you will know what a good edge looks like for you.

 

[HazMat Shaver]

I bought a cheap USB microscope years ago. Honed and watched the edge. I found by comparing to real scopes that mine was about 80 - 100x in reality. Not 300x as advertised. Another thing I found was when I see a ding in the edge easily at that magnification I couldn't feel it. I learned how big a ding could be before it was a real issue. This helped my honing a lot. Now I run my scope for bevel sets at around 40x to 50x and that shows me just enough. Not too much. I don't use it every time but when I'm having issues I break it out.
Here is a Jnat edge.
and
Here is a little pitting left over from some rust removed from an edge.
This is around the 50x mark. The entire picture from side to side is around 1mm. Just for reference.

 

[JPO]

I’m not the best honer out there, so don’t really know what the edge off the 0.44um stone should be like.

I need to hone a lot more to dial it all in properly

You have a nice tool to play with there.
The shapton G7 0.44 is a really fast stone for it's grit rating. A good exercise is to take the edge up to 8k first. At this stage the edge is really starting to get refined and shave ready (for some). You will probably notice that there is not that big of a difference in edge width compared to a 30k edge. Take a photo with your microscope. Then only do 5-10 light laps on your 0.44 G7 (that is all i usually need at least). Shave test and/or examine the edge again. Then you can do 5 more laps if need, or just to see how far you can take the edge.
This stone can give you a really nice edge, but the window of opportunity is quite small, in my opinion at least.

I do not have a high end microscope as you have used, but i have been able to get good photos by spending some time playing with the light source. It is much easier to inspect edges off natural stones, especially JNAT's, because there is less light reflection.

 

[Calou]

@Hazmat with the proportions, X50, image which 1mm side by side, this means that your your bevel is about 100µm wide....
The width of the bevel is about 1/10 of the width of the image.
Are you sure the image is 1mm side by side?

 

[Bayamontate]

Very cool photos by all! I used a Veho 400X USB for a minute decades ago to diagnose and trouble shoot but now only go to a 4X Fuji loop if I need to see something close.

 

[StellaNova]

I do plan to do this. The only naturals I have are coticules.

Takes me AAAAGES to get a good edge of them as I’m not the best honer. When I do, I’ll try to get some pics.

I have a very glassy coticule, a Les latneuses and a la nouvelle plus another one which I don’t know the layer. All feel different with the razor on it, so I assume would give a slightly different edge.

Will take me a long time to do all that though, but I sure can try

It takes a good deal of courage to post micrographs of your edges in a honing forum

I would suggest that if anybody gets sidetracked analyzing the quality of your edges, they should simply send you examples of edges that they honed so that you can post micrographs of those edges as well.
I don't mean to volunteer your time and resources, but come to think of it, that would be an excellent study.

Otherwise, as long as you are happy with the shaves you get, then your edges are perfect examples

I am guessing that the apex of edges finished on natural hones like Coticules or JNats will be more toothy at a microscopic level than those honed on synthetic hones or lapping film.

I am always intrigued by the natural hone kind of edge that "feels like it won't cut you" vs the ultra keen synthetic edges.

 

[Calou]

My contribution to 2 cents.
Here are images of two microscopes: mustool 1200 and dinolite X900 with the same blade feather pro gard which helps in understanding proportions and measurement scales.
- The first is mustool 1200 at mini magnification with a measuring standard.
- The second is with mustool 1200 at max (about X100)
- The third with dinolite medium magnification for ease of focusing (I use most often) With measurement of the width of the image and the average diameter of a beard hair)

AT X100 the width of the image is about 2mm

Dinolite with automatic measurement