What's new

High Mpg Vehicles

Since I'm single and the likelyhood of that status changing anytime soon is slim... The cars I'm somewhat interested in are the Honda Fit (I think thats the name) and the European Smart. Both are two seater small cars and at least the Smart is marketed as being able to park on the curb perpendicular to traffic it is so short. Granted when I was in Germany several years ago I saw the Smart cars and found them to be ugly but to me a car is a utility item not one that I use to "win friends and influence people" or anything. The main appeal of those two is supposedly they get great mileage since they are so light/small and then the fact that I rarely if ever really need to carry other people.
 
i've been driving Citroen diesel cars for about 12 years now. Never got less than 55mpg from them. Quiet, VERY reliable and merely the thought of having to pay almost £1 a litre for petrol/gasoline for a standard petrol engine gives me cold flushes!

I have read that European diesel is much cleaner than the American version. Never even a wisp if smoke unless I really put the toe down hard.

Gareth
 
Is there any reason why it is so hard to buy diesel cars here in the States?

I would love to have a diesel Passat or similar.

My cynical side says it the mid-west corn industry who wants to force thier ethanol on us...
 
good news and bad news....

Americans are buying more US made vehicles....bad news....toyotas, Hondas and Nissans are made in America...

Remember Dodge, Jeep Chrysler are own by Mercedes Benz, so those of you who want to buy an import, there you go...lol...

these vehicles are made by americans with american supervisors...my point...if management would design and hold to strict standards, then the other companies would be making the same quality product as the Japanese.

Chrysler dropped thier 7 year 70,000 mile warranty because of the drop in warranty claims over the past few years...that means quality is up....the 300 has the same rear suspension as the mercedes, once again a quality improvement.

Daimler believes the future of the industry is in diesel electric vehicles...I too would like to see more diesels in our cars....

Ford and Gm design is on the poor side....Chrysler has a new Sebring/Stratus coming out this fall, let's see what that looks like...

Most of my customers are responsible for the steaks and hamburgers on your plates...as I jokingly said...they can't pull cattle with a hybrid...

my question was "what vehicles do Americans want ?"...the news media had you to believe that the answer was two seater commuter cars...

you can't take a family of four in one of those...and you can't take a family of 6 in a 4 seater....so when the media reports that this is what america wants..i find it hard to believe....

i have loved your answers and comments so far....the barbershop rules !!!!!

mark the shoeshine boy
 
ouch said:
Terrific post, but I do have to take exception with this small passage. Although both of our cars share the "gay spaceship" look (not that there's anything wrong with that), the similarity ends there. The Prius is a far more significant technological acheivement. Why? For one, you can practically put an Insight inside a Prius.

Making a tiny, high mileage vehicle is relatively simple- just trim off lots of weight, squeeze it into a tiny footprint, give it a puny engine, and you're halfway there. It's another thing altogether to make a real world vehicle that fits the bill. Although the Prius appears rather small from the outside, when you sit in it you quickly realize that it has the cabin of a typical midsize car. There is ample head and leg room for five adults, and it will hold a two day's supply of shoes for the missus, roughly 700 pairs. By contrast, the Insight is as utilitarian as a Ferrari. Yes, the Insight will squeeze out a few more miles per dead dinosaur, but for transporting human beings the Prius is a far more capable performer. It's continuously variable transmission alone makes it a wonder. It's engine management systems and level of computerization are remarkable.
Philosophically, it is the superior design. Most hybrids are gasoline engined cars assisted by an electric motor. The Prius is the reverse- it is primarily an electric car that is assisted by a gas engine which charges the batteries (along with various energy regeneration schemes) and adds extra oomph. This capitalizes on the electric motors most endearing quality- it produces maximum torque at zero rpm. The seamless integration of the systems is quite amazing. and it's a kick to glance at the monitor and see that you're going 70 (or stopped at a light) with the engine off. You can drive 100 miles, open the hood, and put your hand on the engine: it will barely be warm.

Don't get me wrong. I want to buy an Insight too, because I love tiny cars. But for those who don't, the choice is clear.

Wow, now I want a Prius too.... I am going to have to take a look at this car, you have me convinced! What a great post.. Thank you.
 
Good points from Mark and Randy. For the most part I do not believe that Americans want hybrids or standard compact cars. IMO the popularity of these models is a function of price, not choice. I think most families would choose, say a Jeep Cherokee or Ford Explorer over a minivan or a compact. I drive a 2005 Jeep Cherokee. I bought it as a 1yr old certified pre-owned vehicle (sorry Mark, Randy, Tony) in May for $21K. It had 6K miles on it, 2 years left on the bumper-to-bumper warrant and an 8yr, $80K mile extended powertrain warranty. It also had some nice upgrades but that is not relevant to this discussion. My point is that it was a good bargain. I buy cars differently than most people do. I perfer to pay a little more for what I perceive to be quality under the assumption that I will keep the vehicle well past the 2-3yr average. As such, I'd rather drive a Jeep for 8 years than two cheaper cars over the same period of time. I also save quite a lot of money by purchasing only one vehicle, albeit at a higher price, and I get to drive something I like.

At any rate, I get ~18 mpg on the V8. My neighbor drives a Honda minivan that gets ~22 mpg on the V6. She hates her minivan and loves my Jeep. If she had a few extra thousand dollars she would have purchased the SUV. As a result, she will very likely trade her minivan in as soon as she can. In doing so she will end up spending a whole lot more money, having replaced her minivan before the end of its useful life.

Similarly, a family of four driving a civic or midsize sedan is usually unpleasant. Ultimately it comes down to your situation. If you are single or married w/o kids you can get away with driving a well made, low cost compact and save some money. Once kids enter the picture your needs change, and so will your auto purchase.

I agree that most people do not realize the gas savings from their hybrid purchases and that environmental concerns should be the driving factor in deciding to purchase one. For that matter, I don't think that most people realize the savings from their regular compacts either. The reason for this being that they didn't buy the compact because they wanted to but because they needed to. As they progress through life and make a little more money they spring for the vehicle they want.

Please note that my SUV example used a mid-sized, better made (IMO) vehicle than the full size Tahoe or Expedition. These vehicles get closer to 12mpg and cost twice what I paid for the Jeep. I would not likely ever buy one of these. This is consistent with my main theme here which is that people more often select a vehicle based on its price than its mpg. To a point anyway, once they can afford more I think the main variable becomes want vs. affordability.

To summarize: I think Americans still want trucks and SUVs but they buy Jap. compacts based on affordability. I also would like to see diesel explored more. My dad drives a early 90s Dodge Ram diesel pickup that gets pretty good mileage. It's got 200K miles on it and isn't going to break down any time soon.
Cheers,
Jeff
 
I agree on your assessment of your Dad's Dodge Ram...although I am a bit biased since my great grandfather invented the Cummins Diesel Engine. Just as with the Hybrid the added initial investment of a Diesel may or may not save you money in the long run. I have a GMC Sierra Extended Cab with the 5.3 litre motor. I commute 3 miles to work, so the gas mileage doesn't effect me too bad. It definitely isn't the most economical vehicle, but the space comes in very handy for hunting trips etc. We are in the market for another vehicle and it is tough. My wife is 4 months pregnant so we are trying to decide on a car vs. suv. First child, so not quite sure how much room we will need. We are thinking about having a second say 2 years apart so whatever we decide will have to handle the expanding family. We have the option of buying a Tahoe from her uncle which he doesn't drive much...couple years old...22,000 miles...pristine condition and he would sell it to us for $5000 below KBB. So its a hard deal to pass up. But she isn't sure about having 2 large vehicles...$75 at the pump does add up, even though we don't commute very far. She only commutes about 6 miles to work. Or do we go for a 3 series BMW...Acura TL...which may be ok with one child but with 2 car seats not quite sure how well something like this would work...maybe a mid size suv...Jeep Grand Cherokee...Tahoe's mileage isn't much worse...and it would afford us more room. She has a large family so it would be nice to all fit in one car when going to dinner. Decisions...decisions...
 
I ended up talking to my mechanic about this yesterday waiting for an oil change. His thoughts on hybrids.

  • Hybrids do not make financial sense for most drivers based on current costs of the car and fuel.
  • Hybrids are inherently less reliable because there are 3X the number of parts in the car. Example, the Prius has 3 coolant systems.
  • Hybrids will have almost zero resale value at 10 years due to extreme replacement costs of things like batteries.
  • Hybrids do not get the high MPG that everyone thinks.
  • Hybrids consume more natural resources to manufacture (one of the reasons for the higher price tag)

Most of these beliefs/thoughts were not new to me, but I thought I'd pass them along.

Personally, we own two Hondas. A Civic which gets very good gas mileage and a Pilot. The Pilot is an 8 passenger midsize SUV that gets 25 MPG on the freeway. Our decision was based on reliability, gas mileage, features, and design - not necessarly in that order.
 
I drive a diesel Japanese 4x4 that I had converted by this company a couple of years ago to run on vegetable oil...., http://www.dieselveg.com . The conversion basically heats the oil a little so that its viscosity is the similar to derv.

I now run my vehicle on soya oil at 43p/litre as opposed to 98p/litre for diesel...., a huge saving for no loss of performance.

Diesel engines were originally designed to run on all types of oil, the first engine ran on peanut oil. DERV is a poor quality fuel that had no market until the diesel engine was invented..., OK it is a little cleaner these days but it is still pretty dirty, full of sulpher etc.

Soya oil doesn't have the sulphur and the carbon dioxide released comes from what the plant took out of the air in the first place.

My car is more environmentally friendly and I'm getting over twice the milage for the same price.

Regards
John:thumbup1:
 
My next car (within the next year) will be a hybrid. I can't stand when people buy huge SUVs for a family of three. Unless your work needs a truck or you live somewhere where you need the horsepower and the towing capability then you don't need a truck. That being said I believe we can buy anything we want. It is a free country. However you will be saddled with the expense that the extra horsepower brings. Instability at high speeds, increased gas consumption, increase in maintanance costs, increased cost to purchase, increase insurance, increased impact on environment.

But then I would be happy if everyone rode motorcycles. :w00t: A 3 lane highway would turn into 6-9 lanes, gas consumption at a minnimum would be 60 mpg and commute times would drop. Got a kids? No problem, we got sidecars. :biggrin:
 
yasuo200365 said:
I drive a diesel Japanese 4x4 that I had converted by this company a couple of years ago to run on vegetable oil...., http://www.dieselveg.com . The conversion basically heats the oil a little so that its viscosity is the similar to derv.

I now run my vehicle on soya oil at 43p/litre as opposed to 98p/litre for diesel...., a huge saving for no loss of performance.

Diesel engines were originally designed to run on all types of oil, the first engine ran on peanut oil. DERV is a poor quality fuel that had no market until the diesel engine was invented..., OK it is a little cleaner these days but it is still pretty dirty, full of sulpher etc.

Soya oil doesn't have the sulphur and the carbon dioxide released comes from what the plant took out of the air in the first place.

My car is more environmentally friendly and I'm getting over twice the milage for the same price.

Regards
John:thumbup1:

Nice!
 
There is another dealer down in the sikeston area of missouri that converted his shop truck to burn vegatable oil...he gets his oil free from the restuarant next door....

one problem....when he drives through town...his exshaust smells just like chicken...!!!! :scared:

:001_tt2: :thumbup:


mark tssb
 
I have a friend at work that drives an old Mercedes that runs on used oil from the local Chinese restaurants. Makes everyone hungry.
 

ouch

Stjynnkii membörd dummpsjterd
yasuo200365 said:
I drive a diesel Japanese 4x4 that I had converted by this company a couple of years ago to run on vegetable oil....,
Regards
John:thumbup1:

Why does this not surprise me? :001_tt2:

Now if you can just get it to run on hot air...........
:jump: :jump:
 
Many a times, our views and practices are shaped by the country that we live in and ofcourse even by the needs of the time that we live in. Living in Sweden, we are very much concerned about the environment and energy conservation (propelled in the right direction by the governments high tax policy on energy!). Most houses have their heating needs met by some type of heat pump or other. Petrol prices encourage low powered smaller cars. Petrol guzzling models are frowned upon both socially and tax wise. I think the days of the big thirsty vehicles is past and hybrids are here to stay.
 
ouch said:
Now if you can just get it to run on hot air...........
:jump: :jump:

Ouch - you're so full of another sort of bio-fuel. :biggrin:


Sue - I buy 20 litre containers from a Chinese Supermarket and use a boating syphon pump to transfer it to the tank - quick, clean and easy.

I favour soya oil because it is quite a thin oil and cheap & easy for me to get here in the UK. Some people do buy in or process for themselves used restaurant oil from fryers (companies collect the stuff) but I'm not that 'green' a person to bother with all that.

If a conversion is done properly (such as the company I used) then the engine burns just as clean with no smoke and no more smell than a ordinary diesel i.e. it is very slight (from my 5 year old vehicle) but it is a 'sweeter' smell IMO - Otto Diesel originally designed his engine to run on vegetable oils http://www.dieselveg.com/rudolf_diesel.htm

So I'm wondering why you don't hear more about 'Vegetable Oil' diesels? ..., they work!

Regards
John
 
Mark - think about it, the growing the crops to make the oil could give you country boys something else to do other than play your banjo and make whoopee with your cousins ..., you might become prosperous and stop living off state handouts:wink:

Regards
John
 
Top Bottom