Henckels or Aust

[APBinNCA]

I have found a LOT of Henckels Friodur razors for sale, I think I understand the model numbers so that's out of the way. The big question is, is the stainless steel in these razors as good or better than a modern Aust stainless? With shipping cost, it is literally a wash between them. The Friodurs I am looking at are NOS with box. I am looking at a 13/16 round point, a square point(472 I think) and a 5/8 half hollow(something -v). If I understand correctly, these are sized the same way that Aust does. The listings have pictures with a ruler. The other question is, anybody have any experience with these half hollows? They are shoulderless and being 5/8, shouldn't being too heavy right?

Or should I just forget I saw them and get my 2 Aust razors ordered ASAP? This would be a lot easier question if the vintage wasn't so expensive, but maybe it is justified?

 

[Herrenberg]

Curious why you want a stainless steel razor. I find them much less fun to hone than the carbon steel ones.

 

[APBinNCA]

I have decided I need it for the summer when I can't be certain my razor is stored properly. I want to get one and decide, maybe I will hate it. I am used to using Feather Pro Supers so I figured why not try it?

 

[Darth Scandalous]

I don't have any experience with Aust's stainless but I do like my Friodur. It did take me longer to hone than average but honestly I don't know if that was me or the razor. It was a while ago. I've been maintaining it on balsa ever since and it's definitely the most comfortable of my balsa edges.

For what it's worth, I think the -V suffix denotes quarter hollow. At least the 72-Vs I have seen were definitely quarter hollow verging on near wedge.

And there are lots of good Friodurs out there, NOS or not, so you can afford to wait for a good deal if you're willing to be patient.

 

[RumpleBearskin]

I've never had or used an Aust, but I do have and use a Friodur 72 1/2. It's a full hollow, round point model. The steel is excellent and I would assume it's the same for all Friodurs.

 

[APBinNCA]

I don't have any experience with Aust's stainless but I do like my Friodur. It did take me longer to hone than average but honestly I don't know if that was me or the razor. It was a while ago. I've been maintaining it on balsa ever since and it's definitely the most comfortable of my balsa edges.

For what it's worth, I think the -V suffix denotes quarter hollow. At least the 72-Vs I have seen were definitely quarter hollow verging on near wedge.

And there are lots of good Friodurs out there, NOS or not, so you can afford to wait for a good deal if you're willing to be patient.

Thanks, I was thinking of you when I asked this. What I read said the -v was supposed to be half hollow, but they do look more like a 1/4 hence the reason I brought it up! Half would be interesting to try, quarter less so.

 

[Titleist]

My first straight was an Aust 5/8 round point. Very plain Jane but one of the best shavers that I owned. I also have two Friodurs and I find them to be excellent razors. I've set the bevel on both of them and run them both through full JNAT progression with great success.

Are the a little tougher to hone? Perhaps but, like I have found with vintage LeGrelots, the edge once established is long lasting.

Just my experience.

 

[Brutus]

I have found a LOT of Henckels Friodur razors for sale, I think I understand the model numbers so that's out of the way. The big question is, is the stainless steel in these razors as good or better than a modern Aust stainless? With shipping cost, it is literally a wash between them. The Friodurs I am looking at are NOS with box. I am looking at a 13/16 round point, a square point(472 I think) and a 5/8 half hollow(something -v). If I understand correctly, these are sized the same way that Aust does. The listings have pictures with a ruler. The other question is, anybody have any experience with these half hollows? They are shoulderless and being 5/8, shouldn't being too heavy right?

Or should I just forget I saw them and get my 2 Aust razors ordered ASAP? This would be a lot easier question if the vintage wasn't so expensive, but maybe it is justified?

Austs and Henckels Friodurs are the largest single groups in my stable.
All of them are excellent razors.

Friodurs have been out of production for several years and I once bought a NOS Friodur (with unusual black scales) razor that was an ordeal to get to hold a good edge, but the end it did.
I believe that this particular razor may have been produced towards the end of Henckels razor producing days and they may no longer have had the right people, tools, or inclination.

Be that as it may, all my Friodurs with the much more common off-white scales are excellent.

If you want to build a collection, a NOS Friodur would make a nice addition, as NOS ones are hard to find.
But as I explained above, I might think twice before I buy another NOS Friodur with back scales.

If you just want a razor to shave with, you can never go wrong with an Aust and I suspect that an Aust will also be cheaper than a NOS Friodur.

Someone asked why you would want to buy a stainless steel razor.
I ask, why not?
Friodurs in particular prove that stainless steel does not have to be difficult to hone and I like the added protection of a stainless steel razor when I travel and may not have the time to let the razor dry for several hours.

That stainless steel is hard to hone may be true for some razors, but none of my Aust, Henckels, Filarmonica and several other stainless steel razors is a particular challenge to hone.


My 2 cents…


B.

 

[Tomo]

I have both an Aust and Henkels in stainless. Both are good razors and take an excellent edge. It just comes down to what you like the look of.

 

[Possum092]

Never owned a stainless SR. Stainless is notorious for being difficult to maintain an edge; on knives once the edge is set I’ve had no issues. Honing with modern synthetic stones should make this an easy task. Using natural stones and stainless you should expect to see some dishing earlier. Good wishes on your next SR.

 

[alex1921]

When people say stainless razors are more difficult do they mean it takes longer to set a bevel or that the edge is unstable?
I have most of the Friodur models and honestly they hone just fine. Never had one that the edge chipped or crumbled. Setting the bevel on chosera and now Shapton glass has not been an issue either.

I presume not all stainless razors were made equal and some brands may have issues but Friodurs are a pretty safe bet.
The standard Friodur models should be fairly cheap since there are a ton of them out there.

72 1/2 vs the 72V

 

[APBinNCA]

Austs and Henckels Friodurs are the largest single groups in my stable.
All of them are excellent razors.

Friodurs have been out of production for several years and I once bought a NOS Friodur (with unusual black scales) razor that was an ordeal to get to hold a good edge, but the end it did.
I believe that this particular razor may have been produced towards the end of Henckels razor producing days and they may no longer have had the right people, tools, or inclination.

Be that as it may, all my Friodurs with the much more common off-white scales are excellent.

If you want to build a collection, a NOS Friodur would make a nice addition, as NOS ones are hard to find.
But as I explained above, I might think twice before I buy another NOS Friodur with back scales.

If you just want a razor to shave with, you can never go wrong with an Aust and I suspect that an Aust will also be cheaper than a NOS Friodur.

Someone asked why you would want to buy a stainless steel razor.
I ask, why not?
Friodurs in particular prove that stainless steel does not have to be difficult to hone and I like the added protection of a stainless steel razor when I travel and may not have the time to let the razor dry for several hours.

That stainless steel is hard to hone may be true for some razors, but none of my Aust, Henckels, Filarmonica and several other stainless steel razors is a particular challenge to hone.


My 2 cents…


B.

Thank you so much for this, it was exactly the information I was looking for.

 

[APBinNCA]

Thanks to all the other replies, I wasn’t sure how many people might chime in.

That 72v is still tempting me, but not knowing how a near wedge shaves is too risky for right now.

I decided that I didn’t like the grind on the toe of the 72 1/2, too rounded unfortunately. This is where I prefer the Aust to most German razors if I am buying a round point. I want it a little pokey.

So I got an offer on a 472, actually several razors I was considering. I am pretty pleased with my self control, I only bought the 472. Exact same price as an equivalent Aust delivered, stupid taxes took a big bite though. So, how durable are the scales? Is this something that I shouldn’t be travelling with?

I am still planning to get an Aust in stainless, I will wait an extra month before ordering. I wanted to get a second one in carbon steel at the same time.

So with the 472, since it is NOS I was planning to go to the 8k synth immediately followed by my natural finisher. Is this wishful thinking? Do I need to go back to the 5k or even further? I can’t imagine it being smart, with my experience, to fully reset the bevel right out of the box. Please consider risk vs reward with any answers given.

 

[MasterOfPups]

I have both, you can't go wrong with either one.
The Austs have a bit more 'cool' factor with the fancy scales and various point styles, but the scales can be a bit heavy and off balance depending on the model.
As far as an everyday shaver, you get more bang for your buck with a Henckels. And if you can sharpen one, you can sharpen the other - no big difference at all from the ones I have honed.

 

[Brutus]

Thanks to all the other replies, I wasn’t sure how many people might chime in.

That 72v is still tempting me, but not knowing how a near wedge shaves is too risky for right now.

I decided that I didn’t like the grind on the toe of the 72 1/2, too rounded unfortunately. This is where I prefer the Aust to most German razors if I am buying a round point. I want it a little pokey.

So I got an offer on a 472, actually several razors I was considering. I am pretty pleased with my self control, I only bought the 472. Exact same price as an equivalent Aust delivered, stupid taxes took a big bite though. So, how durable are the scales? Is this something that I shouldn’t be travelling with?

I am still planning to get an Aust in stainless, I will wait an extra month before ordering. I wanted to get a second one in carbon steel at the same time.

So with the 472, since it is NOS I was planning to go to the 8k synth immediately followed by my natural finisher. Is this wishful thinking? Do I need to go back to the 5k or even further? I can’t imagine it being smart, with my experience, to fully reset the bevel right out of the box. Please consider risk vs reward with any answers given.

Among other Friodurs, I have also two 72V razors and they deliver great shaves. I have been shaving with straight razors for years and maybe I have grown a bit casual about these things, but I don’t find them difficult at all to shave with.
From a collector’s point a 72V is clearly a rarer razor than the 472, which is quite common.

Regarding the grit you should start with, that is difficult to answer. You could start with the 8000 grit you already have and move up from there before your first shave. As I have a 12,000 grit, I would probably start from there. If it doesn’t work, one can always repeat the process starting with the coarser grit.
3000 grit or even 1000 grit should not be required.

I have over 20 Friodurs and on only one I ever had to replace the scales.
As Ralf Aust has done some little modifications for me over the years, I simply asked him whether he could replace the scales and he found some very nice ones for me - bog oak, if I remember correctly.

If you want to order a new razor from Ralf Aust and don’t like round points, he does quite a bit of Spanish points and they work very well. On request he had also made some French points for me.
I once asked him about steels and he seems to have a slight preference for carbon steels, but - as said earlier - stainless steel has its advantages too and I never regretted buying mine.


Hope this helps…


B.

 

[APBinNCA]

It sounds like I am on the right track! Now I have to decide whether to grab that 72v, me wants it! Maybe it will still be available later... otherwise I will have to try a Koraat for a near wedge, darn.

 

[Herrenberg]

When people say stainless razors are more difficult do they mean it takes longer to set a bevel or that the edge is unstable?

I'm not sure whether you mean me or not, but I'll pretend you did.

What I said was that I find stainless steel "much less fun to hone," that was not a euphemism for difficulty; I meant it literally.

I place a high value on the tactile feel of things. To me, the feel of a carbon steel razor on a JNat is rapturous, and the feel of a stainless steel razor on a JNat is so unpleasantly wrong-feeling that I stick to synthetics when dealing with stainless. On synthetics, there is less difference, but the stainless steel's numb, gummy qualities on the stone compared to carbon steel's textured, responsive elegance still leaves me strongly favoring carbon steel. The best carbon steel edges almost act like they want to be sharp, and the honer/sharpener is just a conduit. Never had that happen with a stainless steel.

 

[APBinNCA]

I certainly appreciate any and all feedback. I will be sticking with the syths of course, except my finisher. I do know how that one feels so I will have something to compare to when the Friodur shows up, in two weeks.

 

[alex1921]

I'm not sure whether you mean me or not, but I'll pretend you did.

What I said was that I find stainless steel "much less fun to hone," that was not a euphemism for difficulty; I meant it literally.

I place a high value on the tactile feel of things. To me, the feel of a carbon steel razor on a JNat is rapturous, and the feel of a stainless steel razor on a JNat is so unpleasantly wrong-feeling that I stick to synthetics when dealing with stainless. On synthetics, there is less difference, but the stainless steel's numb, gummy qualities on the stone compared to carbon steel's textured, responsive elegance still leaves me strongly favoring carbon steel. The best carbon steel edges almost act like they want to be sharp, and the honer/sharpener is just a conduit. Never had that happen with a stainless steel.

To answer, no. I meant exactly what I wrote. There is this ongoing perception on the forums for years now that stainless is this difficult to hone steel. Some people agree with it, I don't. So I was just curious what difficult meant and if there is brand difference between the quality of steel. I bet there is.

 

[totorlekiller]

I do not have a Aust. I have a few stainless steel Henckels though. I find them very competent, however I do not think I have even seen one not dressed in plastic scales. I found it degrading to have such beautiful work of craftsmanship in plastic scales. Time permitting I rescale mine in bone or horn for the stainless, wood for the others.