Help me choose a brush: Simpsons Tulip 2 vs. Shavemac 177-21

[MichaelG]

As background I own a couple of lower-priced brushes: a Vulvix 2197 (Pure badger, Ht: 95 mm Loft: 48 mm Base: 47 mm Knot: 19 mm) and a Vulvix Mayfair (Pure badger, Ht: 105 mm Loft: 55 mm Base: 50 mm Knot: 20 mm). I find that I like the smaller Vulvix more - I like smaller brushes (under 100 mm total height), smaller knots, smallish, comfortable handles - no fancy handles with lots of design elements, etc.

Another brush I owned and recently sold was the group buy Simpsons Eagle G3 in Best Badger (I know - heresy. It's on its way to a new home in New Mexico - I hope it will be very happy). It had too much backbone for me and the knot was 23 mm - it just felt too scrubby and stiff for creams (for me at least).

I mostly use creams rather than soaps - I use creams maybe 90% of the time or more.

I primarily bowl lather.

I use the Mayfair primarily for soaps - it's got more backbone and feels scrubbier. I prefer a more flexible brush in general.

I figure these two are nice options. My concern as to the Tulip is that it might be too much like the Mayfair, albeit in a nicer grade, or the Eagle G3. A scrubby brush better meant for soaps than creams.

Any opinions are welcome. Below are the dimensions of the two - the T2 and the Shavemac:

The Simpsons T2 is:

Overall brush height: 96 mm
Handle height: 47 mm
Brush Loft: 49 mm (actual)
Knot diameter: 22 mm

The Shavemac 177-21:

Handle height: 45 mm
Overall height: 100 mm
Knot diameter: 21 mm

 

[Greybeard]

I think you will find both too dense and stiff for your preferences.
You might want to look at a Kent BK4 or a Saville Row 3120 or a Saville Row 3118 (although the handle is quite small) as alternatives.
There is a Muhle silvertip on the BST right now for trade that might also be suitable. You could always pm the seller and see if he would sell it instead.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=166690

 

[MichaelG]

I looked around older posts and there is some opinion that the Saville Rows are actually made by Shavemac? If so, isn't the 3120 pretty much the same as the Shavemac 177 with a 21 mm knot? Both are in Silvertip.

I think you will find both too dense and stiff for your preferences.
You might want to look at a Kent BK4 or a Saville Row 3120 or a Saville Row 3118 (although the handle is quite small) as alternatives.
There is a Muhle silvertip on the BST right now for trade that might also be suitable. You could always pm the seller and see if he would sell it instead.

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php?t=166690

 

[Greybeard]

I looked around older posts and there is some opinion that the Saville Rows are actually made by Shavemac? If so, isn't the 3120 pretty much the same as the Shavemac 177 with a 21 mm knot? Both are in Silvertip.

Although it has not been conclusively proven, most feel that Shavemac does indeed provide the knots for QED to QED's specifications. The 3120 is a 20mm knot. The knot is not quite as densely packed as a Shavemac, but it is plenty dense enough, and the hair is comparable to Shavemac's silvertip (not their finest grade) at a lower price. The knot has a listed loft of 50mm, although mine is 48mm and Charles has a tendency not to update his web site with new specs. This will not feel nearly as stiff as the 45mm loft of the Shavemac, which is more of a face latherer's brush.
If you bowl lather mostly creams and didn't like the feel of the Eagle, then stay away from dense brushes with short lofts. You like your Omega which, while not floppy, is not considered a particularly dense brush that has backbone.

Edit: Sorry I meant the Vulfix 2197 instead of Omega. I had been talking to someone else and had Omega on the brain.

 

[MichaelG]

Very interesting and informed points. Your input is much appreciated.

Although it has not been conclusively proven, most feel that Shavemac does indeed provide the knots for QED to QED's specifications. The 3120 is a 20mm knot. The knot is not quite as densely packed as a Shavemac, but it is plenty dense enough, and the hair is comparable to Shavemac's silvertip (not their finest grade) at a lower price. The knot has a listed loft of 50mm, although mine is 48mm and Charles has a tendency not to update his web site with new specs. This will not feel nearly as stiff as the 45mm loft of the Shavemac, which is more of a face latherer's brush.
If you bowl lather mostly creams and didn't like the feel of the Eagle, then stay away from dense brushes with short lofts. You like your Omega which, while not floppy, is not considered a particularly dense brush that has backbone.

 

[MichaelG]

The Shavemac site lists the 177-21 as an overall height of 100 mm, with a handle height of 45 - therefore a hair height of 55 mm, not 45 mm? Doesn't this mean that the Shavemac actually has a taller loft than the 3120 Savile Row (of 48-50mm)?

This will not feel nearly as stiff as the 45mm loft of the Shavemac, which is more of a face latherer's brush.
If you bowl lather mostly creams and didn't like the feel of the Eagle, then stay away from dense brushes with short lofts.

 

[Greybeard]

The Shavemac site lists the 177-21 as an overall height of 100 mm, with a handle height of 45 - therefore a hair height of 55 mm, not 45 mm? Doesn't this mean that the Shavemac actually has a taller loft than the 3120 Savile Row (of 48-50mm)?

AFAIK the 177-21 would be a 21mm knot. The D01 hair comes in a 19mm knot. The standard loft for Shavemacs from what I remember is around 55mm. However, Bernd is great to deal with and if you wanted a lower loft he would accomodate you. You would have to email him and make arrangements.

 

[huntmol]

If you tried the Eagle in Best and found it too scrubby, I would go with a custom Shavemac Silvertip. For specs I would recommend a 48mm loft and a 21mm knot.

 

[Joe Edson]

lol, maybe I should have swapped with you for my Tulip T2 super. I find that it lacks backbone and isn't super dense. I still face lather with it, but it is definitely not my favorite as I think the loft is too long, though don't know about it's use for bowl lathering.

If you bowl lather exclusively I would look at a Kent BK4 or a Vie-Long 16510. Both super soft brushes and great for bowl lathering.