I would disagree that any brush can make great lather. I have some cheapies that will NOT make a lather, I'm not sure that they are even badger. That said, a quality badger brush, IMO, is unrivaled for producing great lather and feeling great applying that lather to the face. I like my synthetics okay, and boars a bit less, but badger holds heat well, is softer and still making all that foamy goodness.
Help! I've Fallen and Can't Get Up (Should I spend the extra $$ for a high end badger?)
- Thread starter Chumango
- Start date
- Thread starter
- #22
If you are happy with the brushes you have, I don't think you need to chase "better". I recommend spending some time with your new purchases. For example, I still have a Yaqi HMW that I bought in November (received in December) that I still have not used.
But, I confess I am not practicing what I preach, so what do I know. I also recently bought a Shavemac 2-band silver tip fan knot. I used it for the first time today. It was great. Any better than my ~US$11 Yaqi two-band badger fan? Nothing that 'slapped' me in the face. Time might tell a different story. Is the price worth it? To me, yes. I put the shavemac in a beautiful custom handle--it's my go-to-meetin' brush. I certainly didn't 'need' it. At the same time, I could customize my shavemac to a smaller size (23mm) and that made me happy.
As @BigJ suggested, so many things I could be doing in my mid-life years. If my mid-life crisis is to spend a little extravagantly in this area (but comparatively cheaply to other possibilities), then again, I am happy.
Good luck exploring what makes you happy!
[I will deny I have any BAD. But, a Rudy Vey custom is definitely on my wish list too. I think I 'need' a wonderful Persian jar handle in my lineup
]
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Nothing? Sorry, simply not true.
If you can't make proper lather with a reputable $15 boar, $15 synthetic or $30 badger, your doing something wrong and shouldn't be blaming the brush. A $300 brush isn't going to help you make better lather.
I guess if you buy an AliExpress badger brush for $3, it might have some limitations. But I didn't think I needed to mention that.
This is not true for me as well. It is a lot harder to make a good lather with a boar brush than with a synthetic. This has been my case for every shave I've compared so far. A 30 seconds load with a synthetic will make enough lather for 5+ passes. 30 second load with a boar will create enough lather for 1 1/2 pass for me. I load my boars at least a minute to get a 3 pass.
That said, the type of lather I like can be different from others. I like slick, hydrated, and voluminous lather so that's subjective to me. All in all, my conclusion is that it is a lot easier to make a good lather with certain brushes. I think value doesn't directly correlate with performance after a certain point.. maybe $30 is a good mark.
@Timeclo all of the brushes the OP described as using and owning, are perfectly fine for making lather. Him jumping to a $200+ brush won't make a lick of difference in building lather or the quality of lather.
After getting used to any brush, how much water it holds, how long you have to load and how long to work the lather, the end result should be the same ...quality lather.
I stand by my comment. If you can't figure out how to get quality lather from any given brush, sighting user error. Usually attributed to giving up, rotating brushes between 20 of them and not getting to know how any given brush acts and reacts. Yes they act differently, require different loading technique and have different face feel, but the lather SHOULD be the same with any given brush.
Read my comment again. I referred to QUALITY of lather, not ease of lather building or quality of face feel from the brush.
Just my opinion and stance on it. I have yet to use a brush I can't get good lather from. Be it a $20 Semogue Boar, a $15 RazorRock Synthetic, unobtainable Rooney or a $200 Simpson Manchurian.
After getting used to any brush, how much water it holds, how long you have to load and how long to work the lather, the end result should be the same ...quality lather.
I stand by my comment. If you can't figure out how to get quality lather from any given brush, sighting user error. Usually attributed to giving up, rotating brushes between 20 of them and not getting to know how any given brush acts and reacts. Yes they act differently, require different loading technique and have different face feel, but the lather SHOULD be the same with any given brush.
Read my comment again. I referred to QUALITY of lather, not ease of lather building or quality of face feel from the brush.
Just my opinion and stance on it. I have yet to use a brush I can't get good lather from. Be it a $20 Semogue Boar, a $15 RazorRock Synthetic, unobtainable Rooney or a $200 Simpson Manchurian.
Last edited:
I concur with @brucered . After nine years of lathering everyday, mostly twice a day as I shave my head, as well, I have never had a brush that I could not get a good lather with. If you are having issues with boar brushes, just load more soap than expected, whereas synthetics are much more easy to work with.
For me, the ease of lathering does play into the lather quality. Per my previous example, given the same 30 seconds of lathering, boars will eat up lather, giving less passes, while synthetics don't, in my experience. My lather quality with the boar is diminished given the same control because I cannot go through a complete shave with it.
That said, I agree that OP's brushes are perfectly fine. $200 brush might make a difference but to what extent, who knows. I wouldn't recommend it either because there are plenty of value options that work well. What I'm sticking to is that brush does affect the quality of lather. We can agree to disagree.
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
On the extreme end of the bell curve where the cheapest and worst brushes live there are brushes not worth using. I've tried some of them. However, even there most (not all) will load and lather well enough; that doesn't make them good brushes, but they can be used.
On the other extreme end of the bell curve where brushes cost a car payment the brushes might not work significantly better than a $15 Omega boar or a $25 Yaqi badger. Are the care payment brushes better? Well, maybe, but I don't hear anyone arguing they perform significant better as lathering instruments if at all.
Many of us are hobbyists of course, but I doubt anyone needs or should have a high end brush if need and should have have to do with lathering performance.
My favorite brush, my copper handled Zenith Manchurian, cost me about $95. It performs a little bit better than a Yaqi two band. That little bit is significant to me, but it would be hard to say it would matter to you. It would be much much harder to say you should buy one. Much of what I regard as better here concerns face feel (and even that is marginal vs a price jump which is not marginal).
Nothing wrong with buying whatever you want, but the OP asked about the imperative of the matter, right?
Just my two cents of course.
Happy shaves,
Jim
On the other extreme end of the bell curve where brushes cost a car payment the brushes might not work significantly better than a $15 Omega boar or a $25 Yaqi badger. Are the care payment brushes better? Well, maybe, but I don't hear anyone arguing they perform significant better as lathering instruments if at all.
Many of us are hobbyists of course, but I doubt anyone needs or should have a high end brush if need and should have have to do with lathering performance.
My favorite brush, my copper handled Zenith Manchurian, cost me about $95. It performs a little bit better than a Yaqi two band. That little bit is significant to me, but it would be hard to say it would matter to you. It would be much much harder to say you should buy one. Much of what I regard as better here concerns face feel (and even that is marginal vs a price jump which is not marginal).
Nothing wrong with buying whatever you want, but the OP asked about the imperative of the matter, right?
Just my two cents of course.
Happy shaves,
Jim
- Thread starter
- #32
I can get good lathers with every brush I have, though the synthetics arrive there more easily, and if I am lazy some will result in a mediocre lather.
My original intent was to ask if there is a significant difference between what I am using and what is out there that costs a lot more - say a Shavemac or a Paladin. Would I use one and say, "Wow, this is really nice!", or would it be similar enough to what I have that it would be like, OK, no big deal?
It seems there is no consensus on this. Some note a marginal, or even noticeable, difference when you get the high end brush, some perhaps don't. Some say it is worth it, some say it is not. With everyone having different preferences, I guess this is no surprise. It appears the only way for me to find out for myself is to do it. I was hoping to have a general consensus inform my decision, but it has not come.
My original intent was to ask if there is a significant difference between what I am using and what is out there that costs a lot more - say a Shavemac or a Paladin. Would I use one and say, "Wow, this is really nice!", or would it be similar enough to what I have that it would be like, OK, no big deal?
It seems there is no consensus on this. Some note a marginal, or even noticeable, difference when you get the high end brush, some perhaps don't. Some say it is worth it, some say it is not. With everyone having different preferences, I guess this is no surprise. It appears the only way for me to find out for myself is to do it. I was hoping to have a general consensus inform my decision, but it has not come.
Last edited:
@Chumango
Many of the posts here are interchanging Quantity of lather with Quality of lather.
In the end, you will likely want to try at least one high end badger so you know first hand. If it doesn't work, sell it for a minimal loss and you will only be out a few bucks
B&B has always thrived on the mentality of More is Better, Buy Buy Buy and Hoard Hoard Hoard. That's why there is no clear answer. Some buy into it and some don't.
Many of the posts here are interchanging Quantity of lather with Quality of lather.
In the end, you will likely want to try at least one high end badger so you know first hand. If it doesn't work, sell it for a minimal loss and you will only be out a few bucks
B&B has always thrived on the mentality of More is Better, Buy Buy Buy and Hoard Hoard Hoard. That's why there is no clear answer. Some buy into it and some don't.
Last edited:
I only own a nine-dollar Cremo Horsehair Brush. After 314 shaves, I don't see a need to own anything else. 20mm is big enough.
Just a reminder that there are minimalists in B&B who get outstanding shaves from an inexpensive kit.
Just a reminder that there are minimalists in B&B who get outstanding shaves from an inexpensive kit.
Consensus is pretty rare here, isn't it? Usually you just hear about everybody's favorites. FWIW, I think expensive brushes are a luxury product that appeal to a niche group. These brushes are more about having a luxury experience than ultimate performance, IMHO. You don't have to spend a ton to get a nice brush that works well.
This pretty much sums it up. @Chumango You don't have to spend a ton to get a nice brush that works well.
I guess my expensive brush is 26mm SHD badger w/ custom handle and I enjoy it. The performance is decent but the face feel is amazing. I got it more for the curiosity so I'd say it was worth it for me. I could always get an amazing lather with my $15 brushes but I also enjoy trying variety of products. Now that I've tried the SHD badger, I probably will stick to what I got.
I have a Cremo Horsehair brush en route to me, with delivery expected by Saturday. I agree that 20 mm is big enough. I have gotten bigger brushes, both badger & synthetic & most get infrequent use, since they require excess soap to just load the brush.
Maybe it's because I've used Grandpa's old EverReady badger brush since the late 60's, but I can get excellent suds from any brush I own (except for the excessively limp $3 Ali Express badger). Different brushes on my shelf require different amounts of water to build the perfect lather, and not only because of varying size or composition. My daily use brush is most often one of two 19mm Chinese E-bay synthetics - they cost around $5-6. They work great for me, but maybe only because of decades of experience with that ancient boar brush of Grandpa's...
Buying a more expensive car won't make you a better driver. A more pricey brush ain't the answer to your inferior lather.
One brush, one soap, one razor, one blade, one aftershave, one thing to learn. It keeps it simple for me.
Chumango, unfortunately you are the only one that can answer the question of if a higher end brush is worth it. For myself I can say when I use a badger brush I like I have that thought, ”Now this is a nice brush!” I have boars, horse, synthetic, mixes, and so on, and have sampled a large range. My preference runs to 3-band silvertip badger, but I have a considerable amount of 2-band silvertip badger as well, along with a smattering of everything else. It is always my badgers, both 2 and 3-band that give me that feeling. That’s not to say I don’t enjoy my other brushes. Many I have kept simply as they intrigue me for their own distinct characteristics they display.
I think you could find a brush you really like in badgers, but that’s my bias speaking. I’m biased to badgers. Established name brands. Not to throw shade at the newstarts, that’s just where my preferences lie. I say that having brushes from many of them too. If you love how synthetics are, I think that’s great, and you can explore a whole unique world there far cheaper.
I can say many of my brushes are purchases of others speaking about how great the brushes are, and it’s hard to resist that pull. We naturally want to believe something better is out there, especially when you see so many talking about how great something is. I keep getting pulled into synthetics even though most of them just don’t fit with what I like. I might have found a keeper finally though that’s the closest to what I would want in a synthetic. Not sure if it was worth the dozen brushes that led to it, though.
My suggestion for trying a quality badger is to keep an eye on BSTs. I’ve picked up many a deal there for a pittance. I get to see the exact brush and if I like what I see. I have a Shavemac 30+mm bruiser line up that consists almost entirely of BST buys. Only a pure and Finest are the exceptions, along with my avatar brush.
I think you could find a brush you really like in badgers, but that’s my bias speaking. I’m biased to badgers. Established name brands. Not to throw shade at the newstarts, that’s just where my preferences lie. I say that having brushes from many of them too. If you love how synthetics are, I think that’s great, and you can explore a whole unique world there far cheaper.
I can say many of my brushes are purchases of others speaking about how great the brushes are, and it’s hard to resist that pull. We naturally want to believe something better is out there, especially when you see so many talking about how great something is. I keep getting pulled into synthetics even though most of them just don’t fit with what I like. I might have found a keeper finally though that’s the closest to what I would want in a synthetic. Not sure if it was worth the dozen brushes that led to it, though.
My suggestion for trying a quality badger is to keep an eye on BSTs. I’ve picked up many a deal there for a pittance. I get to see the exact brush and if I like what I see. I have a Shavemac 30+mm bruiser line up that consists almost entirely of BST buys. Only a pure and Finest are the exceptions, along with my avatar brush.
