Help id Gillette ball end OT

[romsitsa]

Hello,

just received a ball end old type Gillette, it is soaking right now, I can post pictures in a few hours.
I can't identfy its date of manufature or origin, so help me please.
It is a thin cap, it was gold plated as there are some small traces of gold left.
The handle is stamped with PAT NOV 15 04. The base plate has a serial, think its six digits and there is no letter, most probably 986923. The bottom of the base plate has the G in D stamp to the left and Gillette diamond to the lower right, no made in stamp at all.
It came from France if it is any further help.

Thank you

Adam

 

[BSAGuy]

We need the pics. Looking forward to seeing them.

 

[nuclearblast]

That serial number would date it to 1907, but Ball End Old Types weren't made in 1907.

http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/US_Gillette_Dating_Information

That page has the info you need.

 

[nuclearblast]

BTW, that's the American patent number so it was made in the US. The G in D was a requirement of the French government, silver and gold plated razors sold in France had that stamp. Not only Old Types, but also New Improved razors from the '20s and some NEWs from the '30s.

 

[romsitsa]

Hello,

thank you for you inputs. The baseplate looks as a regular ball end, it has no sings of ever being a single ring (handle pressed onto the plate).
It came in a standard combination set (know it is a mismatch, but I thought its an unmarked ball end I need for a pocket case), will try to get in contact with the previous owner, maybe he has some further info.

Before cleanup:

PAT NOV

serial, couldn't make a better photo

Underside stamps

After cleanup, serial is 986923

Markings again, no sing of a made in... stamp

Adam

 

[nuclearblast]

Those handles were introduced in 1915, IIRC. Not having ''Made in USA'' stamped on the baseplate is normal, they started stamping that in 1916-'17 IIRC.

Unless that baseplate belongs to a 1907 Single Ring, which I don't think it does, the serial number should be prefixed by a ''C'', which would date it to 1916. That would make sense.

 

[romsitsa]

There is no sign of any letter (or sings of sandig it out), only the six numbers. The surface is not fully even so a further, even faint stamping should be visible, but there is nothing.

So the number dates it 1907, the logo 1908, being a ball end after 1915? Weird.

Adam

 

[nuclearblast]

Nuclearblast,

based on the serial number database this razor (or baseplate) was manufactured in 1907 but the diamond logo appeared in 1908?

Looking for any further input.

Adam

It can't be from 1907.

The serial number should have a prefix, most likely a ''C''. A poorly struck ''C'' (or perhaps even a ''D'' from 1917) is one of the possible explanations.

 

[romsitsa]

I know it can't, except they had a time machine, or messed up the serial.
So using Ockham's razor it is a poorly stamped ball end from 1916 or 1917.

Thank you

Adam

 

[Morman Bridge]

That Gillette diamond logo on the bottom of the baseplate seems larger than usual. Could that be a clue as well? If I recall, the diamond logo was made smaller at some point in Gillette's early history. Could it be an earlier version?

 

[Morman Bridge]

Edgar, I don't mean to dispute what you say, but I swear I can remember having a Ball End Old Type that had a 1913 or 1914 serial number. I PIFed it to [MENTION=63236]shoulderpet[/MENTION] a few years ago. If I recall, it was one of his favorite razors. He may still have it. Perhaps he will see this thread and chime in.

 

[nuclearblast]

Edgar, I don't mean to dispute what you say, but I swear I can remember having a Ball End Old Type that had a 1913 or 1914 serial number. I PIFed it to @shoulderpet a few years ago. If I recall, it was one of his favorite razors. He may still have it. Perhaps he will see this thread and chime in.

Hi Alan,

We can never be 100% sure I guess, but I'm relying on the experts. So if I'm wrong it's entirely their fault.

We do know that the ball-end Old Types started showing up around about the Christmas season of 1915

http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/412138-Gillette-Pocket-Edition-sets



If the razor has a 1913 or 1914 serial number, probably it was part of an ABC set, someone lost the original handle and paired it with a regular ball end.

 

[Morman Bridge]

Thank you Edgar, as always, your expertise is appreciated. Have a great day my friend!

 

[TobyC]

The ABC's don't have the Gillette diamond on the bottom do they?

I was thinking the same thing, but I can't find an image with the diamond.

 

[Morman Bridge]

The ABC's don't have the Gillette diamond on the bottom do they?

I was thinking the same thing, but I can't find an image with the diamond.

Some do, but very few. I don't have any with the diamond on them, but I have seen photos of a few.

 

[jruschme]

What's that other strange logo on the bottom plate?

 

[TobyC]

Some do, but very few. I don't have any with the diamond on them, but I have seen photos of a few.

Thanks Alan!


Thought you had one of every variety ever made!

 

[TobyC]

What's that other strange logo on the bottom plate?

G inside a D, reread the OP.

 

[romsitsa]

Last question I have a G in D marked Gillette Empire set, could this razor fit the case, except that it was gold plated and not silver? I think I won't have a better chance to get a GD stamped old type, so hope it can fit.

Thank you

Adam

 

[shoulderpet]

Edgar, I don't mean to dispute what you say, but I swear I can remember having a Ball End Old Type that had a 1913 or 1914 serial number. I PIFed it to @shoulderpet a few years ago. If I recall, it was one of his favorite razors. He may still have it. Perhaps he will see this thread and chime in.

Hi Alan, hope you are well ,yes I still have the old type, great razor, I have been tied up sorting some personal issues recently so have not got round to having a look but I will try and get round to having a look and will post the serial number etc