Bosse, were the Swedish blades made of similar quality steel to the MK exports?
Heljestrands, comparing models
- Thread starter imatabor
- Start date
Ah ok mine says paris 1855 on the tang. I'm curious if this is one of those framebacks. Here's some pics. The scales have some cosmetic flaws unfortunately.
http://imgur.com/a/reETQ
- Thread starter
- #23
Then Kindal was for export the same as MK and BK. Now as far as quality, is this fair: MK>BK>Kindal. I also saw a Prince Kindal as well as Royal Kindal. Is this just a marketing ploy or are they different models as far as quality?
The blades for domestic sales in Sweden were much more diversified than the MK exports.
The razors for MK markets were highly uniform and largely of the same raw material. The domestic razors contained that material and tempering but also many different ones.
The Kindal family wanted to maintain the kind of razor their high end customers were used to so they limited the smiths to only one kind of razor at a time. The smiths were frustrated because of this, they wanted to show the world how they refined their skills and materials.
My source guy quitted Heljestrand because of this. He went on to work as a metallurgist for the weapon industry which just before WWII was booming and Swedish steel was in high demand. Just as now Sweden was a heavy player in the weapon industry. But Uddeholm still makes the best steel for DE blades, even for the Japanese manufacturers...
That's largely a marketing ploy on a declining market.
As a matter of fact the guys making the razors considered the whole Kindal family as a market ploy after they bought the factory and the declining sales were held against the Kindals in Eskilstuna.
The quality of the blades is not affected by the marketing tactics and stamps on the razors.
The line of razors developed steadily over the years and the smiths took great pride in this work. The reason they started disliking the marketing hype was that the Kindals insisted on 6/8 and even bigger sizes of razors. The US market wanted those sizes and the Kindals knew that. The smiths knew that it takes a true master to make a 5/8 or 4/8 well balanced razor that takes and holds a really great edge.
IMHO opinion the greatest Heljestrand razors are those made just before and after the war. They were made for the export markets in form of Kindal marked big razors(6/8 and bigger) and for the domestic market in form of unnumbered series in 5/8 and 4/8 sizes.
The smiths in Eskilstuna definitely held the domestic 'reasonably sized and well grinded and tempered' as the top of the Heljestrand razors. They are the ones pictured in my post above.
- Thread starter
- #27
Thanks for all the great information.
Why is it that every list I see has the MK and N. and BK but no one talks about the Kindal series?
Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse but it I just can't find any information on this razor.
View attachment 457249
Why is it that every list I see has the MK and N. and BK but no one talks about the Kindal series?
Sorry if I'm beating a dead horse but it I just can't find any information on this razor.
View attachment 457249
Yes- that's the one that started the whole export success!
I mentioned earlier that CV Heljestrand was the founder of the factory. That is not quite accurate; the Heljestrand family before CV owned and operated a factory that made knives and cork screws (!) and CV expanded the razor business after learning the trade in Sheffield, UK in the 1870's!
Ah, very cool. It's a great shaver and nice little frameback but it didn't have MK on the tang so I kind of figured it wasn't really that desirable of a blade. I have a Similar Joh. Engstrom frameback that's a bit larger (6/8-13/16) dressed in Ivory that's probably one of the smoothest shavers I own.
The reason you won't find much info on this one is simply that razor is one of the non MK series and not sold by Kindals from Paris if it doesn't have the MK markings.
The reason for the etching on the blade is unclear to me. It is not etched from the plant in Eskilstuna and it doesn't seem to have ivory scales as many of the high end export variants had. Using only one Royal Crown is against the rules from the Royal Court of Sweden; you should use three crowns.
My conclusion is that this razor was 'rebranded' by some importer, probably in the US because of the size of the razor. It is one of the later models from Eskilstuna and this means that I doubt you will find a razor that takes and holds a better edge than this one!
Congrats to an elegant and functional piece of Swedish steel!
The knowledge of razor making was not limited to the dominating Heljestrand plant in Eskilstuna. There were a lot of smaller makers that had access to the know how and the steel:
from top: unmarked 'made in Eskilstuna, Hellberg, Dahlgren, Berg, SSA and a Bengall from Borlänge north of Eskilstuna
These razors are very well made and match the quality of the Heljestrands IMHO. Most of them were exported in small quantities and often dressed up in ivory or tortoise.
Dang bosseb just felt like I was back in school! Great info and thank you!
haha i know right. I have a whole new appreciation for some neglected swedes i have. I have 4/8" C.V.H. that I love but it doesn't have numbers on the tang plus the other two mentioned above. Might have to give them a ride this morning.
My intention certainly was not to come across as a besserwisser; I picked up a lot of info from hunting in the wild in Eskilstuna and meeting this old fogie who had worked as an apprentice in the Heljestrand plant in the 30's.
Fortunately I have been lucky enough to avoid the fact that my skin won't tolerate the learning curve of using and honing a straight razor. I had to give up the idea and admire the straights from a safe distance...
I have to enjoy the Swedish steel on my skin in form of the Uddeholm export to the major DE blade manufacturers. Still enjoyable though!
Congrats! You are in the possession of what the smiths in Eskilstuna consider to be the best razor they produced.
My intention certainly was not to come across as a besserwisser; I picked up a lot of info from hunting in the wild in Eskilstuna and meeting this old fogie who had worked as an apprentice in the Heljestrand plant in the 30's.
Fortunately I have been lucky enough to avoid the fact that my skin won't tolerate the learning curve of using and honing a straight razor. I had to give up the idea and admire the straights from a safe distance...
I have to enjoy the Swedish steel on my skin in form of the Uddeholm export to the major DE blade manufacturers. Still enjoyable though!
That's a shame I have two mk32, mk33 and an unmarked 6/8 without an mk stamp but looks just like my mk32... Plus I've owned two mk31's in the past... All are great shavers... Among my best! And if you know me I have great shavers
That, Sir, has escaped no one on these boards!
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- #38
Bosse, thanks for sharing your knowledge. You certainly did not come across as a besserwisser.
What great insight into the Heljestrand brand. Thank you for sharing bosseb. This type of information is why I enjoy this forum. I have a new appreciation for my frameback.
That razor was the beginning of the Heljestrand evolution. The razor was made by CV Heljestrands father with the best knowledge available at that time in Eskilstuna. Heljestrand senior knew that the Brits were up to some new methods in handling steel, both tempering and grinding. This made him send his son Carl Victor to Sheffield to learn the new ways of handling steel in the 1870's.
When CV returned he applied his knowledge of razor making on the different steels made by the Swedish mining companies. That steel was not available anywhere but in Sweden. The Eskilstuna smiths were for a long time the only ones who possessed both the know how and the material. This is why the Eskilstuna razors take and hold an edge unlike any other razor from that time.
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