My stone is on the way. They sent it from Japan by DHL. Gokumyo 20k and Naniwa SS 12k are also available in my collection. I will write a review when the stone arrives.
Has anyone used the Suehiro Kouseki 10K?
- Thread starter ORkaisersoze
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So Steve, this begs the question... I know you like to finish on your JNats. Are you looking at the Suehiro as a pure finisher?
Honestly, I've gotten very nice synthetic edges, if I remember to use a light touch during the shave. But, at 14K, I doubt I'll try a natural stone to follow up, so I'm not quite sure yet where this would fit in, unless I just use it for what it was designed???
I like the modern synthetics... but I still dearly love my naturals! Then again, I suppose one can never have too many stones.. although Mrs. Loner just might disagree!
Too early to tell... I'll have to sit tight for the reviews..
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Hey Bill,
It’s a hobby to me and I’m curious bout this stone. I have a Naniwa Snow White and a Gok 20k too, so it will be interesting to compare them. The king of the 8k stones so far has been the Shapton Glass HC. And I am apparently the only person on earth with a Naniwa Snow White that doesn’t have a single crack in it.
I’ll certainly try it as a finisher, as I have all the symths that I have, it’s a good idea to shave off each stone in your progression at least once. The idea that it is designed to mimic a natural is intriguing, as well as being fast enough to replace multiple stones. Cheap thrills really.
If you’re interested, I’d wait until some reviews are posted since sevaral od\f us have them ordered. If you get one, just thell the Mrs that it’s a sample of tile for the new kitchen backsplash you’re thinking about. She probably knows better though
It’s a hobby to me and I’m curious bout this stone. I have a Naniwa Snow White and a Gok 20k too, so it will be interesting to compare them. The king of the 8k stones so far has been the Shapton Glass HC. And I am apparently the only person on earth with a Naniwa Snow White that doesn’t have a single crack in it.
I’ll certainly try it as a finisher, as I have all the symths that I have, it’s a good idea to shave off each stone in your progression at least once. The idea that it is designed to mimic a natural is intriguing, as well as being fast enough to replace multiple stones. Cheap thrills really.
If you’re interested, I’d wait until some reviews are posted since sevaral od\f us have them ordered. If you get one, just thell the Mrs that it’s a sample of tile for the new kitchen backsplash you’re thinking about. She probably knows better though
What's the link to the company that sell them?
Well wasn't long from Japan, just took delivery, so next week I can have a little play around with this stone, I'm a very optimistic person so let us hope this one lives up to the hype, I'm sure it will.
Looks good. Hopefully i have not hyped this up too much
Steve56
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Mine is out for delivery.
Looking forward to the reviews.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Mine is here. It needed lapping and it is very hard, like the Gokumyo. The vendor included a nice linen towel.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
First test razor is a Cape 1372 with a Shapton Glass 8k HC edge on it. The Kouseki cuts slow and polishes on clear water at razor pressure. The Snow White is faster on clear water. I think that this is expected, the Kouseki is much harder than the SW. The Kouseki speed is similar to the Shapton 8k HC. The Kouseki seemed to leave some scratches on the bevel, the 8K HC polishes to a mirror polish - but more testing is needed. The HHT was silent in or out, to be expected at 10k, so I think that it will shave very well. I’ve already shaved today but tomorrow will tell.
The ‘nagura’ seem to be stones for cleaning/surfacing the whetstone. I imagine that they are well enough graded to use as slurry stones like the Naniwa ‘brown biscuit’, but the green one is described as GC#220 and the white one as WA#1000. So of course if you have 1k slurry on a hard atone, it will cut faster, just like the Naniwa cleaning stone. I suspect that these are similar material to their green and their white professional stones, but don’t know this. See below from the Suehiro site regarding the grit of the polishing stones.
Shave report tomorrow!
The ‘nagura’ seem to be stones for cleaning/surfacing the whetstone. I imagine that they are well enough graded to use as slurry stones like the Naniwa ‘brown biscuit’, but the green one is described as GC#220 and the white one as WA#1000. So of course if you have 1k slurry on a hard atone, it will cut faster, just like the Naniwa cleaning stone. I suspect that these are similar material to their green and their white professional stones, but don’t know this. See below from the Suehiro site regarding the grit of the polishing stones.
Shave report tomorrow!
I did not find any use for the coarse dressing stone.
The other included nagura is just as fine, if not finer then the base stone. It is also quite effective. It is not similar to the base stone. It is also very abrasive. Try to generate just a little slurry with it. This will speed up the stone and keep the stone from loading.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
I compared the white nagura scratch pattern to a King 1k, and the white nagura is definitely finer. I’d guess that it’s around 4-5k and it’s soft. It also seems to have very consistent grit, no ‘boulders’ in it. I’ll do more comparisons and see if I can nail it down a bit better.
Does it de-throne the Naniwa 12k?
The Nan12 is a finishing good stone, but to me its very finicky. Will not stay flat, but i solved that for you and i Whenever i backed ours with glass, it didn't solve it 100%, but it is more stable than it was. I really do think the glass would work better on the thinner Nan12k (maybe shapton glass company is on to something with the thinner stone backed with glass, idk) Anyways thicker the stone (3/4" Nan 12) with this particular binder the deeper it 'gets wet' amd it take longer to dry (and it warps) and something just not right about the makeup of the binder they used for this stone. Imo its a good finisher, but its too soft. Based on my experience if the stone isn't completely clean When finishing too much water it does auto-slurry, and that slurry that breaks 'can sometimes' microchip edges. Me personally i only use it at a barley damp state , and not pooled with water. My experience is more water the more the stone auto-slurries.
Steve56
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Too early to tell Mike, but it is a very hard stone so it doesn’t autoslurry.
How does the scratch pattern compare?
I am the luckiest person in the world. Because my Naniwa 12k stone never warp. My Naniwa Chosera 1k stone has never cracked. My Junpaku 8k stone has never cracked either. Fuji 8K is the same. The Gouken Kagayaki stones I purchased were not the same as the Super Stones. (I agree. They're not completely different, you can think of it like v2). That's why I think I'm very lucky. I don't think Naniwa custom made these stones for me.
As for what I'm doing. I never soaked those stones in water for hours. Just splash and go. And when I was done, I cleaned the surface with my old DMT D8C and let it dry vertically. I have never dried asymmetrically and never exposed it to sunlight. They dried themselves at room temperature. And I never removed them unless I was quite sure they were dry. Maybe you have already tried them, but in my way of use, I have not had a problem with these stones until now. (I use Chosera 1k almost every day.) As I said, maybe I am lucky to have stones without problems. I do not know...
@Steve56 thanks for sharing your first impressions with us. I had an impression similar to yours when I first used Gokumyo 20 k.Then I found ways to get optimum efficiency. You are experienced. I would appreciate if you share other test results. My parcel is still on the way. The predicted delivery is 23, but I guess I'll get it around 25-26.
As for what I'm doing. I never soaked those stones in water for hours. Just splash and go. And when I was done, I cleaned the surface with my old DMT D8C and let it dry vertically. I have never dried asymmetrically and never exposed it to sunlight. They dried themselves at room temperature. And I never removed them unless I was quite sure they were dry. Maybe you have already tried them, but in my way of use, I have not had a problem with these stones until now. (I use Chosera 1k almost every day.) As I said, maybe I am lucky to have stones without problems. I do not know...
@Steve56 thanks for sharing your first impressions with us. I had an impression similar to yours when I first used Gokumyo 20 k.Then I found ways to get optimum efficiency. You are experienced. I would appreciate if you share other test results. My parcel is still on the way. The predicted delivery is 23, but I guess I'll get it around 25-26.
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
This pretty much mirrors my experience in this area...
No troubles with my Chosera 1K, but I don't often need a 1K stone. My Snow White has barely perceptible craze marks, ans I was also very careful about drying. As for the SuperStones and Gouken Kagayaki series being identical, I cannot say with any knowledge, but I cannot say with any certainty that they're different either. I did always feel a very slight difference, but not enough to state with any authority. SuperStone V2.0 seems a good analogy. But, the SuperStones always had a strong following, so why would Naniwa rename them? Then again, why so many different versions all named snow White? Perhaps there is no rhyme or reason...
Anyway, the jury is out for me on this new stone... I have a 10K and 12K Gouken Kagayaki which I can get excellent shaves off ..
The G20K I never got on with and is just too keen for me, so, do i really need another 10K that could be up to 14K? Probably not, but that never stopped me from purchasing before...
I'll wait for all the superlatives before making my decision... While it won't break the bank, I'm running out of room, and the Mrs. is running out of patience...
Steve56
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Shave report: TL;DR it’s an excellent razor finisher, the shave was as smooth and close as any synth, and minimal AS tingle from the Myrsol Limon, which is pretty ‘tingly’ for the Myrsol line. If the edge wasn’t good, Limon will tell you. No nicks (the razors were not wanting to ‘dig in’), irritation, etc. No stubble post shave, tightness, etc. Cream was the always dependable SMN, if you have a shaving problem SMN isn’t it.
I prep honed two razors on the usual Shapton Glass 4k HR and 8K HC, so the Kouseki didn’t have a heavy lift. One was a Cape 1372 and the other a Waterville full hollow 5/8. I probably should have used identical razors, but both of them take excellent edges. The Cape was finished on clear water and the Waterville with just a little slurry per John ‘s recommendation. John, you are making me consider that this white nagura really is super fine.
The edges were indistinguishable WTG, and the Waterville if anything possibly a little smoother. The slurry didn’t knock the WTG performance down. ATG the clear-water Cape did better, and I chose it over the slurry-finished Waterville for the fool’s pass, and the Cape did very well. So there ya have it, at least so far.
@Southbound1 - the scratch pattern relative to the Naniwa 12k is difficult to assess, the Kouseki seems a little finer than the N12k, but that impression may be because the Kouseki is polishing quite a bit more, and you have to be careful not to confuse bevel polish with the size of the scrathes. This was a quick test, but based on the appearance of individual scratches, I’d say that the Kouseki is marginally finer than the N12k. I also tested it against the Shapton Glass G7 0.85u (about 16k - 17k), and the Kouseki scratches are not as fine as the 0.85u H7. That’s not surprising as the 0.85u G7 is rated over 50% finer than the Kouseki. So it would seem that the Kouseki is performing like a 13-15k stone, with a scratch pattern closer to the lower end.
Keep in mind that everything that I’ve done so far has been a quick test, and I’m only one shave in with the stone. It will be interesting to see what other folks experience, so keep the thread going folks.
I prep honed two razors on the usual Shapton Glass 4k HR and 8K HC, so the Kouseki didn’t have a heavy lift. One was a Cape 1372 and the other a Waterville full hollow 5/8. I probably should have used identical razors, but both of them take excellent edges. The Cape was finished on clear water and the Waterville with just a little slurry per John ‘s recommendation. John, you are making me consider that this white nagura really is super fine.
The edges were indistinguishable WTG, and the Waterville if anything possibly a little smoother. The slurry didn’t knock the WTG performance down. ATG the clear-water Cape did better, and I chose it over the slurry-finished Waterville for the fool’s pass, and the Cape did very well. So there ya have it, at least so far.
@Southbound1 - the scratch pattern relative to the Naniwa 12k is difficult to assess, the Kouseki seems a little finer than the N12k, but that impression may be because the Kouseki is polishing quite a bit more, and you have to be careful not to confuse bevel polish with the size of the scrathes. This was a quick test, but based on the appearance of individual scratches, I’d say that the Kouseki is marginally finer than the N12k. I also tested it against the Shapton Glass G7 0.85u (about 16k - 17k), and the Kouseki scratches are not as fine as the 0.85u H7. That’s not surprising as the 0.85u G7 is rated over 50% finer than the Kouseki. So it would seem that the Kouseki is performing like a 13-15k stone, with a scratch pattern closer to the lower end.
Keep in mind that everything that I’ve done so far has been a quick test, and I’m only one shave in with the stone. It will be interesting to see what other folks experience, so keep the thread going folks.
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