Hard Water Causing Sensitivity/Irritation?

[tjsgarden]

Hey Guys and Gals,
For thirty+ years I have always felt like I had dry and sensitive skin. I have always used moisturizers and my skin felt fine to the touch. At a deeper level, my face felt dryer and more sensitive. I know most topical creams only work on the surface level of the skin and it was/is not a major issue.

I have read other threads about the lathering issues using hard water and I am now wondering if using hard water may also be part of the reason why many have sensitive or dry skin...just a thought at this time.

I plan to try two experiments to see if I notice any differences.
First, I am going to use warmed distilled water for wetting my face, soft brush soak, pre-shave (Cremo Lavender), lathering and shave and rinsing my face. I will then use chilled temperature distilled water for splash and rinse. Follow up will be non-alcohol aloe witch hazel and a moisturizing balm.

The second trial will be basically the same except I will add citric acid (1/8 teaspoon) directly to the sink water. From what I have read, the CA is suppose to soften the water.

I will post updates but I would like to know if others have learned that using hard water has contributed to irritation or other skin sensitivity issues.
I also ordered a showerhead with a filter that is suppose to soften the water. I'll report on how that works. As an aside, I am 66 and no longer use HOT water on my scalp or face because that seems to contribute to the underlying sensitivity.

 

[Scaramouche]

Might want to check your water quality as a baseline. Your local water utility or city/county government will have published reports (a legal requirement in the US) regarding hardness, water contents, contamination, etc. You can also check the hardness yourself with a simple kit. Extremely hard water with a high mineral content (chiefly calcium and magnesium ions) can cause irritation and dermatitis, depending on your sensitivity, but another likely culprit is the addition of water treatment chemicals (like chlorine and chloramines) by your public waterworks - or even the bath soaps and shampoos you use, and more than one factor can be contributing. If you do have very hard water, chemical softening is not as practical or effective as a whole house ion-exchange softener, and adds another unknown in the form of extra "stuff" in the water (although most commercial softeners do add a slight amount of extra sodium to the water as well), but most people get along fine with a wide range of water hardness. A good start is to check your water quality as it is, and certainly a trial of distilled water for shaving can't hurt. Good luck!

 

[Burundian Hawk]

Hello again, sir! How are you? I am your African problem solver, if you remember! Ready to serve you another good steak with potatoes! I trust things are going well with the Razorock brush. Now, to this one. I doubt it has anything to do with the water. It could be your technique (applying to much pressure), razor-blade combination. Might i suggest a steak and potatoes recipe once more?
1) Buy: Edwin Jagger DE89 or Muhle R89 razor (they are the same, only different handle and brandname. Mild razor. You don't want too mild, because too mild can bring irritation due to incapability of cutting).
2) Buy a DE sample blade pack (amazon should have them) and try different blades. Or, if you want to skip things, try: a Gillette blade, an Astra Superior Platinum (it's owned by Gillette but much cheaper), a Voskhod and a Shark super stainless. Which translates into: 2 sharp and 2 dull blades. They are also smooth in their category and should work well with the above razor. Decide which ones are better for you. Then buy more!
3) Return to the forum after trying and thank the wise Burundian Hawk!

Happy shaves, sir!

P.S.: If you can't find the mentioned razor, try to find the Baili BR171. Should be cheaper too. Mild too. In 2 words, your irritation, is most probably, a question of technique+ combination of razor and blade + quality of lather. The technique is something you have to gain experience with. The razor and blade, can be solved by trying more tested combinations. The quality of lather...Lather should be slick, without bubbles.

 

[Burundian Hawk]

I forgot! The Baili is also sold in the US as the Razorock Teck II. It is just rebranded Baili. Ignore the low price. It is very good. Potatoes are cheap. And don't apply pressure with the razor as you shave. Let the weight of the razor do all the pressure you need. In time you will learn to put pressure yourself, but not while you are a beginner.

Happy shaves, sir!

 

[tjsgarden]

I live in rural NE Louisiana and use well water. We have iron and calcium deposits in the tub. The water taste good and there is no smell but my wife and I prefer to drink and cook with a 5 gallon RO/UV water dispenser.
For this little trial experiment, I am using a Feather AS-D2 or Rockwell 6C (plate # 2 or 3) razor. Feather blades seem to work good with both razors.
I have been wet shaving for over two months and learn something new about this great hobby every day. I am retired and spend time every day on this forum but nothing beats learning from my own experience. While still a rookie, I have improved my technique to the point where I can get a close shave with little or no irritation. However, I mostly shave WTG and a second pass along the jawline and upper neck with a slant type angle. I am not interested in shaving ATG at this time.
This hard water experiment is based on a long term sensitivity and dryness issue on my face. It is really not that bad and doesn't require medical attention. I have read about others having similar problems while shaving so I thought I would see what happens if I change up the water equation. Also, it should be fun! Thanks for the input.

 

[Burundian Hawk]

I live in rural NE Louisiana and use well water. We have iron and calcium deposits in the tub. The water taste good and there is no smell but my wife and I prefer to drink and cook with a 5 gallon RO/UV water dispenser.
For this little trial experiment, I am using a Feather AS-D2 or Rockwell 6C (plate # 2 or 3) razor. Feather blades seem to work good with both razors.
I have been wet shaving for over two months and learn something new about this great hobby every day. I am retired and spend time every day on this forum but nothing beats learning from my own experience. While still a rookie, I have improved my technique to the point where I can get a close shave with little or no irritation. However, I mostly shave WTG and a second pass along the jawline and upper neck with a slant type angle. I am not interested in shaving ATG at this time.
This hard water experiment is based on a long term sensitivity and dryness issue on my face. It is really not that bad and doesn't require medical attention. I have read about others having similar problems while shaving so I thought I would see what happens if I change up the water equation. Also, it should be fun! Thanks for the input.

Ah! I too have hard water and it is exactly because of the calcium deposits that the water tastes so good! The hard water should affect the difficulty of making lather, but it should not have any effect on irritation. The hard water simply means that some poor performing soaps, will be much harder to lather properly. But most of the industrial soaps have ingredients to counteract the hard water. Changing the water should improve latherability, but not much else. Meaning, you should be able to build lather faster, more lather or make lather with poor soaps.

Feather blades are the sharpest (or the 2nd sharper, according to opinions) blade in the market and is notorious for requiring very much attention. Not a blade for beginners. I would try more blades, if i were you. The Feather is a blade that doesn't forgive and it is not known to be "smooth" blade. The irritation, in my experience is result mainly of the razor+blade combination or high pressure. If i were a beginner, i wouldn't use a Feather. Feather causes weepers even to seasoned wetshavers. Irritation, is nothing else, than shaving to a deeper level than what you should, albeit not deep enough to cause blood or result of tugging instead of cutting. With very sharp blades, there is risk that you 're not just cutting, you are also scraping a bit of outer skin off. On the opposite side, a very dull blade might tug instead of cut. So both of this leads to irritation and redness. It is a way of your skin to protest to what you are doing. So, i would try another blade for sure. Also, try to make short strokes with the razor. Try also different plates on the Rockwell. Experiment.

Happy shaves, sir!

 

[Barbarossa]

Hey Guys and Gals,
For thirty+ years I have always felt like I had dry and sensitive skin. I have always used moisturizers and my skin felt fine to the touch. At a deeper level, my face felt dryer and more sensitive. I know most topical creams only work on the surface level of the skin and it was/is not a major issue.

I have read other threads about the lathering issues using hard water and I am now wondering if using hard water may also be part of the reason why many have sensitive or dry skin...just a thought at this time.

I plan to try two experiments to see if I notice any differences.
First, I am going to use warmed distilled water for wetting my face, soft brush soak, pre-shave (Cremo Lavender), lathering and shave and rinsing my face. I will then use chilled temperature distilled water for splash and rinse. Follow up will be non-alcohol aloe witch hazel and a moisturizing balm.

The second trial will be basically the same except I will add citric acid (1/8 teaspoon) directly to the sink water. From what I have read, the CA is suppose to soften the water.

I will post updates but I would like to know if others have learned that using hard water has contributed to irritation or other skin sensitivity issues.
I also ordered a showerhead with a filter that is suppose to soften the water. I'll report on how that works. As an aside, I am 66 and no longer use HOT water on my scalp or face because that seems to contribute to the underlying sensitivity.

I have extremely hard water, just means more soap and lots of elbow grease to get the lather right.
I’m wondering if your dry skin is due to dehydration. Humans do well to drink close to a gallon(128oz) of water a day. And perhaps eating a handful of walnuts for a snack each day wouldn’t hurt either.

 

[mtcn77]

I am inclined to believe some minerals at least are healing, otherwise we wouldn't have good tasting and skin soothing chemicals as alum. I even tried to look for articles which associate it with skin conditions. The search continues...

 

[tjsgarden]

Hello again, sir! How are you? I am your African problem solver, if you remember! Ready to serve you another good steak with potatoes! I trust things are going well with the Razorock brush. Now, to this one. I doubt it has anything to do with the water. It could be your technique (applying to much pressure), razor-blade combination. Might i suggest a steak and potatoes recipe once more?
1) Buy: Edwin Jagger DE89 or Muhle R89 razor (they are the same, only different handle and brandname. Mild razor. You don't want too mild, because too mild can bring irritation due to incapability of cutting).
2) Buy a DE sample blade pack (amazon should have them) and try different blades. Or, if you want to skip things, try: a Gillette blade, an Astra Superior Platinum (it's owned by Gillette but much cheaper), a Voskhod and a Shark super stainless. Which translates into: 2 sharp and 2 dull blades. They are also smooth in their category and should work well with the above razor. Decide which ones are better for you. Then buy more!
3) Return to the forum after trying and thank the wise Burundian Hawk!

Happy shaves, sir!

P.S.: If you can't find the mentioned razor, try to find the Baili BR171. Should be cheaper too. Mild too. In 2 words, your irritation, is most probably, a question of technique+ combination of razor and blade + quality of lather. The technique is something you have to gain experience with. The razor and blade, can be solved by trying more tested combinations. The quality of lather...Lather should be slick, without bubbles.

Thanks Burundian Hawk for your ideas and suggestions.

The new RR synthetic brush is smooth and soft on my face-just the way I like it. Actually, my Fendrihan synthetic is even softer!
I have the Jagger DE89 and Gillette King and like them both. I am trying the mild razor/sharp bade strategy.
I use Cremo Lavender and other pre-shaves to make my face and neck real slick. My lather goes on moist, shiny and thick but a thin layer so I can see what I am doing.
I think my technique is improving. I am using the weight of the razor and focus on the angle of the blade. The hard water idea is just a personal experiment to have fun and see if it makes a difference in the outcome during and after shaving.
Thanks again Sir for your helpful suggestions.

 

[mtcn77]

Generally water hardness doesn't affect me because I wash hands with diluted cif. Soaps exchange ions with calcium and form insoluble soap scum(calcium soaps). It also doesn't take acidity as well as diluted cif, normal soap rancidifies in contact with even mild sweat.

 

[tjsgarden]

I have extremely hard water, just means more soap and lots of elbow grease to get the lather right.
I’m wondering if your dry skin is due to dehydration. Humans do well to drink close to a gallon(128oz) of water a day. And perhaps eating a handful of walnuts for a snack each day wouldn’t hurt either.

Excellent Point!
I drink a lot of iced tea with stevia but I will make a conscious effort to drink more water. Thanks!

 

[mtcn77]

Soaps in general are best for cleaning metallic residues, I find, not negatively charged highly acidic organic matter.

 

[Burundian Hawk]

Thanks Burundian Hawk for your ideas and suggestions.

The new RR synthetic brush is smooth and soft on my face-just the way I like it. Actually, my Fendrihan synthetic is even softer!
I have the Jagger DE89 and Gillette King and like them both. I am trying the mild razor/sharp bade strategy.
I use Cremo Lavender and other pre-shaves to make my face and neck real slick. My lather goes on moist, shiny and thick but a thin layer so I can see what I am doing.
I think my technique is improving. I am using the weight of the razor and focus on the angle of the blade. The hard water idea is just a personal experiment to have fun and see if it makes a difference in the outcome during and after shaving.
Thanks again Sir for your helpful suggestions.

Synthetics have overpassed animal hair in softness. I am not surprised. The only real reason to buy animal brushes is just for the different face feel and variety. Otherwise synthetics are softer and perform better too.

I am not familiar with the Cremo preshave. But, just an idea... 5 minutes before you put anything else on, rinse well you face with water. Just to moisten your skin and the hair. 5 minutes later, put whatever else you usually put. Also try another preshave, just to see if it makes any difference. Proraso makes preshaves too. Try the white one. I find the Proraso white, a remarkably skin calming soap. The preshave could have the same effect, although i don't use other preshave than water and a little of glycerin, which improves slickness on any soap.

I understand the mild/sharp strategy, it's just that of the sharp blades, the Feather is the most unforgiving. There are other sharp blades that are also smoother. But, trying is part of this "game". I find the AstraSP and even more the Voskhod particularly good on the DE89.

You are most welcome, sir! It why we are here for! Help one another!

 

[Invicta]

I have read other threads about the lathering issues using hard water and I am now wondering if using hard water may also be part of the reason why many have sensitive or dry skin...just a thought at this time.

Hard water is not the cause of sensitive skin or irritation. Irritation is usually caused by poor technique and preparation. Sometimes the choice of blades are a factor which is why trying different blades is often reccomended.
Dehydration is a factor in some dry skin situations but using a daily moisturiser after a shave is very beneficial for the skin.

 

[Benzadmiral]

If you can't find the citric acid, try putting some baking soda in your shave water. It may not "soften" it per se, but it does make the water more slippery. I can feel the difference.

 

[tjsgarden]

I am not familiar with the Cremo preshave. But, just an idea... 5 minutes before you put anything else on, rinse well you face with water. Just to moisten your skin and the hair. 5 minutes later, put whatever else you usually put. Also try another preshave, just to see if it makes any difference. Proraso makes preshaves too. Try the white one. I find the Proraso white, a remarkably skin calming soap. The preshave could have the same effect, although i don't use other preshave than water and a little of glycerin, which improves slickness on any soap.

The Cremo is the lavender scent of their regular shaving cream in a tube. I also use the Proraso white and red at times but I find the Cremo is more slippery so I use it as a pre-shave most of the time.
When I get out of a warm shower, I immediately apply a pre-shave before I start mixing a shaving cream in a bowl. When ready, I rewet the preshave again and start painting lather on my face and neck.
Burundian Hawk, Thanks again for being generous with your helpful suggestions.

 

[tjsgarden]

If you can't find the citric acid, try putting some baking soda in your shave water. It may not "soften" it per se, but it does make the water more slippery. I can feel the difference.

Thanks. I tried using baking and indeed it does make the water feel more slippery. The citric acid is suppose to come in the mail tomorrow. I am NOT a scientist but I am experimenting with the idea that the CA will make the water softer or the pH more acidic. If my un-scientific idea is correct, it may be more gentle on my skin or closer to its normal pH level.

 

[mtcn77]

Thanks. I tried using baking and indeed it does make the water feel more slippery. The citric acid is suppose to come in the mail tomorrow. I am NOT a scientist but I am experimenting with the idea that the CA will make the water softer or the pH more acidic. If my un-scientific idea is correct, it may be more gentle on my skin or closer to its normal pH level.

I seriously thought that was calcium for a second.
Citric acid will enhance those qualities but won't make your soap rise better. I wonder how baking soda fares although I also not being a scientist have heard doping free sodium cations improves the cleaning power of sodium(regular) soaps.
The alkali used affects solubility a lot. Calcium is the least soluble, sodium is next, potassium soaps are almost too soluble and not malleable.

 

[GR5233]

I wonder if it’s the type of minerals dissolved in your water that might be causing the problem. While living in central Kentucky the water only really had limestone dissolved in the water. Never had any skin issues. After moving to southwest Florida I’ve noticed that besides the dissolved limestone there’s other stuff in the water that gives it a sulfery smell and have developed an issue along the hairline behind the right ear