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Hair Tonic Heaven

I have the same problem and never thought about using hair lotion to fix it. Hell, I think I might try one of those one of these days...

I have also had success with a homebrew.

70 ml everclear (95% stuff)
20 ml witch hazel
20 ml water
1-2+ ml glycerine

I usually mix it all together and add the water at the end. The glycerine content varies on the season for me, winter being on the high end obviously. I'm guessing a lot of the glycerine content is personal preference- different types of skin require different levels of moisturizing. 1-2 ml does for me just fine, but others may want more or less depending on tastes. If it's tacky on the skin, you added too much! For aftershave I usually add some aloe and monkey with the glycerine levels a bit.
 
Ok, so I just went and checked:

Clubman 'Greaseless' Tonic - No glycerin

Quinine and Portgual 'Compound' Tonic - Glycerin

I find that curious- I just re-checked my bottle and glycerine is definitely listed, and third at that. Well, if you wanted some, just add it! Who knows why our bottles are different. Is it possible that at some point in the past either the recipe was different, or regulation at some point in the past did not require listing it on the label at its concentration in the tonic? Perhaps it is just a printing error on one of our bottles. Mine definitely behaves like there is glycerine in it.
 
Ok, so I just went and checked:

Clubman 'Greaseless' Tonic - No glycerin

Quinine and Portgual 'Compound' Tonic - Glycerin

ADA, the Clubman tonic does indeed gylcerin though some bottles don't list it in the ingredient stack. It contains about 5% glycerin. There was some controversy about this on another forum, so I analyzed a bottle that didn't have glycerine listed on the label, and it indeed contained the same amount as the bottles that did have it listed as an ingredient. EDIT: didn't see Joto's post, but he is correct. It was a regulation snafu. The newer bottles now require the listing.

Glycerine is not the substance that makes a tonic "oily". Tonic with oil added contains mineral oil (Paraffinum Liquidum) whereas greaseless tonics do not.
 
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This is a good thread. I received my first hair tonic the other day. Jeris without oil and tried this morning. I really like it. My Barbour shop has been using Jeris ever since I was a child. I was in the shop the other day and I asked about it. I have known the smell since I was a child and when he told me the name, I had to buy some.
 
After looking at the Lucky Tiger tonic, there were some interesting ingredients I noticed- it looks like it is intended to be more than glycerine water. In fact, glycerine does not appear on the label. The ingredients are:

SD alcohol 40 (big surprise)
PPG-40 Butyl Ether
Water
Fragrance
Sodium Salicylate
Oxyquinoline
Phosphoric acid
Polyparaben
FD&C Yellow No. 5
FD&C Yellow No. 6

Now, this definitely makes my hair feel greasy, and it is labeled "with fine oils." I'm not a chemist and don't know what gives the greasy/ oily effect, and wikipedia wasn't terribly helpful. Apparently the PPG-40 Butyl Ether is some kind of hair conditioning agent that some have health concerns about. The Sodium Salicylate is a salt of aspirin with similar anti-inflammatory and painkilling effects. Oxyquinoline is apparently an antiseptic/ disinfecting agent. Phosphoric acid, I wasn't sure- lots of stuff on wikipedia, and I didn't bother to sort it out. The last three are preservatives and colorings.

What accounts for the greasy or oily feeling I get with this product? Apply too much, my hair actually looks greasy. I'm assuming it's the PPG-40 Butyl Ether (used as a hair conditioner), but don't know for sure. I don't think any of the ingredients are oils, except perhaps the fragrance, but I would not imagine that the fragrance oils are present in a high enough concentration. The tonic is apparently also supposed to have marginal antiseptic and anti-inflammatory effects. Cool enough, except that the product feels and looks greasy on my head. I'll try it some more but would be mildly surprised if it grew on me. Then again, in the dry winters we have here, it may end up with its uses.

EDIT- After smelling this a few more times, I'm going with a kind of generic sweet citrus smell. The sweetness hangs around, the citrus not as well, but still present now an hour later. I would swear after a few minutes there is something that smells vaguely like uncooked oatmeal.
 
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Joto, the slickness you get from the Lucky Tiger is mainly from the PPG-40 Butyl Ether alcohol, which basically takes the place of Propylene Glycol, which takes the place of glycerin. (Whew!) You shouldn't be concerned about ill effects, it's only (possibly) toxic to humans in extremely large doses, much like every other ingredient in every other cosmetic. :smile:

It is also possible that there are slight amounts of glycerin in the formula; so long as it's under 5% total quantity, it can be "umbrella" listed under the generic heading of "fragrance".

Phosphoric acid is a fairly neutral compound that could be used for any number of things, most likely as a preservative for color and scent. It's used a lot more now that plastic is the new god of heathens that insist on saving a few bucks by tossing their tinctures into things that aren't glass. :biggrin:
 
ADA, the Clubman tonic does indeed gylcerin though some bottles don't list it in the ingredient stack. It contains about 5% glycerin. There was some controversy about this on another forum, so I analyzed a bottle that didn't have glycerine listed on the label, and it indeed contained the same amount as the bottles that did have it listed as an ingredient. EDIT: didn't see Joto's post, but he is correct. It was a regulation snafu. The newer bottles now require the listing.

Glycerine is not the substance that makes a tonic "oily". Tonic with oil added contains mineral oil (Paraffinum Liquidum) whereas greaseless tonics do not.

Good info! Thanks
 
Great order from a man with great tastes. :wink:

The Portugal and Quinine have less glycerine than their Clubman counterpart. You are correct in that they won't provide much in the way of hold; they were mainly used in a time where daily shampooing wasn't common, so the tonic helped "sterilize" the hair and give it some scent between washings. I personally stay away from the "oiled" brands as they are just too greasy for me and get in the way of my pomade.

Another one you may want to try would be the Tres Flores Brilliantine. I'm not crazy about the scent and a little goes a loooooong way, but if you want one that really feels as though it is made to massage your scalp, this would be it. They were recently acquired by the parent company that owns Jeris and Clubman.

Also, try using both the Quinine and the Portugal as a splash. They were very popular in their day as a fragrance and it wasn't until relatively recently that they began to be marketed strictly as hair tonics (hence the slight amount of glycerine compared to the Clubman tonic, which was created solely to be used as a hair tonic. The amount of glycerine in the EdP and EdQ is on par with what is found in Pinaud's other aftershaves/splashes.) I use them more for an aftershave/splash than I do as a hair tonic.

<try using both the Quinine and the Portugal as a splash>

I have been meaning to write in and say that may be the suggestion of the month, or even the year, ClubManRob, from my perspective. I have never been able to figure out what hair tonic is supposed to do for me. I am more of a Murray's (or Dax, thanks to you!) guy when there is a need for any hold, and Groom and Clean or even, say, Tres Flores Brilliantine or RC (although both the latter scare me; OD is too easy) when shiny is all I am after. But I really, really do like the way the EdP smells and it feels great as an aftershave/splash! I would never have thought of simply using it as a splash. I guess they put a label on it and I cannot see beyond that.

Would you say there is a substantial tobacco accord in the EdP, or am I getting that from the host of other scented items I have been using? Wherever it is coming from I really like it, and I really like the way it sees to come in "later" and "under" the predominant scent of the EdP. Classic "middle notes," I guess. A pretty sophisticated thing for something so inexpensive to do though!

In any event, this is a keeper. Turns a product that seemed rather useless, to at least me, in the 21st century yet again something really special from Pinaud/Clubman.
 
I can see where you get a tobacco note off of the EdP. It's definitely there. And yes, it does truly amaze me that some of these "old fogey" waters can be so complex- especially considering the price of many of them.
 
This has quickly turned into one of my favourite threads. Lots of good information. Use them as splashes? I have seen it recommended before and why not? It is only a little added glycerin. Tobacco? I don't notice it my EdP but I will certainly give it another good sniff tomorrow morning and take note. I usually just smell the orange.

Regards, Todd
 
This has quickly turned into one of my favourite threads. Lots of good information. Use them as splashes? I have seen it recommended before and why not? It is only a little added glycerin. Tobacco? I don't notice it my EdP but I will certainly give it another good sniff tomorrow morning and take note. I usually just smell the orange.

Regards, Todd

What is an "Eau de Portugal" anyway? I notice that Penhaligon's is back to calling Douro "Douro Eau De Portugal."

Anyway, I assume the orange is neroli or some other orange blossom, always a favorite of mine. Maybe I am wrong about the tobacco, but I do not think so. For me it seems to come in after that initial orange/orange blossom rush. A sort of dank, earthy underpining, quite distinct from the citrus. Very masculine, dirty even. Also, to me, very true to what tobacco smells like, as in what a cigar smells like rather than cigarettes or pipe tobacco, which probably smell more like molasses than tobacco leaf. Much lighter than that famous LV mulch/decayed vegetation aroma and coming later rather than immediately, and more refined. But not completely divorced from it. I really like those kinds of organic aromas in scents, myself. Sort of gives a scent some base to balance out the treble.

Or maybe I am making it up. I will research further!
 
Well EdP is a citrus scent. That part was easy, eh? It can contain lemon in the top notes but is predominantly orange. Neroli, orange blossom, even bitter orange and bergamot can all be in there. It ususally has some warmish basenote as well. Amber, musk, tonka, etc. but the orange is foremost. Penhaligon's EdP is one of the best I have tried. Very long lasting for a citrus, I can't tell you what all the notes are but there has to be something in the base that holds the orange notes for so long. Just superb. BTW, I am not too good at describing scent notes so someone else may come along to correct anything I have mispoke about here. I just know I like them!

Regards, Todd
 
I also get mainly orange from the EDP, and it doesn't last more than a few minutes on me. Then again, very few scented products of any sort, even stronger colognes, last long on my skin except for the Clubman aftershave. I have no idea why. If the EDP and EDQ were originally marketed as splashes, it stands to reason that from a fuctional standpoint, virtually any splash could be used as a hair tonic, right? After all, the only real difference between most splashes, greaseless tonics, and colognes will be the proportions of the ingredients (Alcohol, water, scent, color, maybe glycerine and preservatives). Practically I suppose you have to be careful to experiment with the lighter scents- I tried using Master's bay rum as a hair tonic and the scent was way too strong! I washed it out later that day. I notice the Clubman tonic is less strongly scented than its aftershave counterpart, perhaps hair holds a scent better than skin. It does on me anyway.
 
Well EdP is a citrus scent. That part was easy, eh? It can contain lemon in the top notes but is predominantly orange. Neroli, orange blossom, even bitter orange and bergamot can all be in there. It ususally has some warmish basenote as well. Amber, musk, tonka, etc. but the orange is foremost. Penhaligon's EdP is one of the best I have tried. Very long lasting for a citrus, I can't tell you what all the notes are but there has to be something in the base that holds the orange notes for so long. Just superb. BTW, I am not too good at describing scent notes so someone else may come along to correct anything I have mispoke about here. I just know I like them!

Regards, Todd

Oh heck yes on Pen's Douro. One of my absolute favorites, for sure, whether or not Pen's can settle on a name.<g>

I actually keep a Douro box on my credenza--the older style package; I really like those colors--it states on the back: top note --bergamot, middle note--neroli, bottom note--oakmoss. Basenotes lists a lot more notes, I noticed. Although, I do not find those listings of notes very useful and I do note know where they come from. Bn needs something that signifies how strong each of those notes are. Otherwise one would think even more scents that do smell exactly alike. I also suspect that the new European labeling laws would require that more be listed than on my Douro box, if anything were listed at all.

Douro seems rather different than Clubman EdP, although the citrus is surely there. I used the EdP again this morning. That tobacco note is still there for me, maybe even a little ashtray in there. A big rush of orange, and then this funkier/dirtier note comes in--again, underneath the orange. I need to try the the CM lime again. My recollection is that the lime seemed at little candy-like and artificial. Whatever the EdP is doing after that initial pure orange rush seems to me to effectively take away any orange candy impression. Like I said, I impressed!

Pen's Blenhiem Bouquet has a similar note that also comes in after an inital citrus rush--much stronger in BB though. Most people perceive that note as "black pepper," and maybe that is what most would perceive the EdP note I am smelling as. Much softer, though, in the EdP. Not pungent exactly.

I really like the CM EdP (and BB and Douro). No persistence at all on the CM EdP though. Douro would probably be a good layer/follow-up. I am nursing the very last of my Douro though! I love it, but it is not cheap and I do seem to use more of it at a time than I would some scents. That greater amount used at a time seems typical of Pen's scents for me.

I cannot believe that CM markets EdP purely as a hair tonic. I also noticed that its web site lists Osage and Jervis as "ethnic" products. What the heck?, "a white guy is not entitled to some menthol refreshment any more!" Hope everyone knows that I am kidding around, but what the heck makes either Osage or Jervis a specifically ethnic product. Tres Flores I can see as "ethnic," but only because of historic cultural type preferences. Maybe, just slightly, Jervis could be perceived as Hispanic, but even that does not really sound right. What could possibly be "ethnic" about Osage? Maybe they are smarter than I give them credit for. I am probably more likely to buy something "ethnic" because I will think it is better and cheaper than, say, Axe!
 
I really like the CM EdP (and BB and Douro). No persistence at all on the CM EdP though. Douro would probably be a good layer/follow-up. I am nursing the very last of my Douro though! I love it, but it is not cheap and I do seem to use more of it at a time than I would some scents. That greater amount used at a time seems typical of Pen's scents for me.

If you're looking for a Portugal to bridge the gap between the ridiculously inexpensive Pinaud and Pen's Douro, there are some others around. Trumper's is marginally less expensive and it's pretty good. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to last very long either. At a lower price point, 4711 makes an interesting Portugal. For some reason, I don't think that it's directly available in the US. I picked up a bottle of the AS in Japan and I like it a lot. They also make an EdT and an EdC. Maybe worth a look?

http://4711portugal.blogspot.com/
 
Oh heck yes on Pen's Douro. One of my absolute favorites, for sure, whether or not Pen's can settle on a name.<g>

I actually keep a Douro box on my credenza--the older style package; I really like those colors--it states on the back: top note --bergamot, middle note--neroli, bottom note--oakmoss. Basenotes lists a lot more notes, I noticed. Although, I do not find those listings of notes very useful and I do note know where they come from. Bn needs something that signifies how strong each of those notes are. Otherwise one would think even more scents that do smell exactly alike. I also suspect that the new European labeling laws would require that more be listed than on my Douro box, if anything were listed at all.

Douro seems rather different than Clubman EdP, although the citrus is surely there. I used the EdP again this morning. That tobacco note is still there for me, maybe even a little ashtray in there. A big rush of orange, and then this funkier/dirtier note comes in--again, underneath the orange. I need to try the the CM lime again. My recollection is that the lime seemed at little candy-like and artificial. Whatever the EdP is doing after that initial pure orange rush seems to me to effectively take away any orange candy impression. Like I said, I impressed!

Pen's Blenhiem Bouquet has a similar note that also comes in after an inital citrus rush--much stronger in BB though. Most people perceive that note as "black pepper," and maybe that is what most would perceive the EdP note I am smelling as. Much softer, though, in the EdP. Not pungent exactly.

I really like the CM EdP (and BB and Douro). No persistence at all on the CM EdP though. Douro would probably be a good layer/follow-up. I am nursing the very last of my Douro though! I love it, but it is not cheap and I do seem to use more of it at a time than I would some scents. That greater amount used at a time seems typical of Pen's scents for me.

I cannot believe that CM markets EdP purely as a hair tonic. I also noticed that its web site lists Osage and Jervis as "ethnic" products. What the heck?, "a white guy is not entitled to some menthol refreshment any more!" Hope everyone knows that I am kidding around, but what the heck makes either Osage or Jervis a specifically ethnic product. Tres Flores I can see as "ethnic," but only because of historic cultural type preferences. Maybe, just slightly, Jervis could be perceived as Hispanic, but even that does not really sound right. What could possibly be "ethnic" about Osage? Maybe they are smarter than I give them credit for. I am probably more likely to buy something "ethnic" because I will think it is better and cheaper than, say, Axe!

Yes, I totally agree that Douro is much different than Clubman EdP. Clubman's product is much more straightforward orange, lighter both in strength and depth, and has NO WHERE near the staying power of Douro. I am convinced that Douro's heart notes and possibly the basenotes somehow hold the orange essences much longer than other citrus scents. I know that sounds sort of self evident but considering that most citrus toilet waters(and that is what most of them are)are designed to be applied for a fresh blast of goodness and then fade away quickly, Douro really breaks the mould. This has to be one of the best designed fragrances ever. Those magic makers at Penhaligon's knew exactly what they wanted and made it happen. Umm...do you think I may like Douro(Lords) quite a bit?:lol::lol: BTW, I am still looking for the tobacco note in Clubmans EdP tonic.

Regards, Todd
 
Todd, that earthy burnt smell hiding behind the oranges? That's what I think of when CStrother mentioned tobacco.

I don't know a great deal about Portugal waters, but I do know that Pinaud's was not the original, but it is the oldest one still in production. It was also the first really popular one here in the States. I've heard various tales as to the origin of the name, but the most plausible is that Portuguese oranges were sweeter than French or British oranges, and they were favored for light fragrances in which the typical dark nerolis of the day would be too cloying. I don't know how accurate that is, but it makes more sense than some of the really far fetched explanations that the typical Basenotes conspiracy theorist devises. (18th century Arab terrorists living in London... I'm not making this crap up. :biggrin:)

One more trivial anecdote- Ernest Hemingway was a huge fan of the Pinaud Eau De Portugal as was Ian Fleming. Hemingway even mentioned it in private correspondence.

Regarding the "ethnic" marketing of some of AII's brands like Osage and Jeri's- it's a classic case of "which came first- the chicken or the egg?" I think it's a little of both. The guy I bought my house from was a barber for fifty years or so, in addition to being black. :biggrin: When he came over to check up on me after I moved in, he noticed all the ancient bottles of Pinaud and Clubman and stuff (my museum, as I call it) and he looked like a kid in a candy store. This lead into a long talk about the old school brands and I learned a lot about AII's marketing and demographics.

According to him, there wasn't a black barber shop that didn't have a bottle of Lilac Vegetol, Jeri's oil, and Stephan's aftershave sitting on the shelf. The problem was, in the black supply house catalogs that they ordered from, they could only get cheap stuff, so to see a bottle of Lilac Vegetal meant that your shop was "big time" or "classy" (in fact, he used to go to Woolworth's and buy a bottle just to keep on display). When AII took over the Pinaud and Jeri's line, the white barber shops had all started turning into "stylists" and in turn got away from the classic brands and gravitated towards the new "designer" labels and lines. Black barbershops didn't go through this same loss of good taste, so AII started marketing to the shops that still used them and had never been able to get them (eg, the black community). Remember how big the Jeri Curl was in the eighties?

He actually laughed when I told him that middle and upper class white men were now actively seeking out the old brands and tonics, and said that he wished he had stayed in the business for a few more years- he could have made a mint selling the stuff that we all buy, because at one time he carried it all. In fact, he kick started my AS AD into high gear when he brought me those ancient bottles of Lilac Vegetal and Naturelle Sec that he found in his garage. :smile:
 
English oranges?! I didn't even know you could make oranges grow in British soil...
Take it from me: Portuguese oranges are the best oranges in the world! Especially the Algarvian ones.

Now seriously: Thank you guys for all the information in this thread. It's a wealth of knowledge.
 
Wow, more later, but I love this thread, and love this forum. ClubManRob, I am so impressed, as usual!

Love Douro, too, and BB, and Opus, but I do not think Opus has the same citrus as the other two in it. I cannot remember what Castile smells like and I have only had 1 ml of it.

And I truly love C&S Neroli. So pure, yet somehow masculine. Never have had enough to really test tenacity. C&S, except for Oxford and Cambridge, usually has some staying power. Have no idea what the C&F hyper expensive Neroli is like.

Have to investigate these other orange type scents. I ran a search earlier on Basenotes for Eau de and du Portugal and even de and du Portugal, but not much came up. I guess I need to run just "Portugal." Had no idea 4711 had a Portugal. Of course there is a brand famous for no tenacity whatsoever in its regular frag.

Am digging the Clubman though for now. Maybe I will carry around a decant of it!
 
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