Thanks guys! I couldn't tell what the serial number was from my iPhone. I'm very computer stupid, and have only used this iPhone to access the Internet. So anyway thanks for the information, this thread has been very informative.
Guide to American Button Company Pocket Edition Sets: Part One - Razors
- Thread starter Blue-EyedSon
- Start date
I got it PorterThat would be the fire, but I believe Gillette switched over to the ball-end Old Types in the Pocket Editions earlier than that. Below is the Christmas ad they ran in The Saturday Evening Post on Dec 11, 1915, and you can see there the Pocket Edition is shown with the ball-end handle. (Click the image to view it in Google Books where you can zoom in further.) I think it would make sense to assume that they would have taken over the full manufacturing at the same time that they came out with the Milady Décolleté, which has a handle that's basically the same construction as the ball-end's.
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No one replied so asking again,That would be the fire, but I believe Gillette switched over to the ball-end Old Types in the Pocket Editions earlier than that. Below is the Christmas ad they ran in The Saturday Evening Post on Dec 11, 1915, and you can see there the Pocket Edition is shown with the ball-end handle. (Click the image to view it in Google Books where you can zoom in further.) I think it would make sense to assume that they would have taken over the full manufacturing at the same time that they came out with the Milady Décolleté, which has a handle that's basically the same construction as the ball-end's.
So with the final verdict did the ABC company go bankrupt or were they forced to close? The ABC company did not follow fire codes, but it seems that the Commissioner of Labor did not have enough manpower to do yearly inspections which may have helped ABC to put up the proper fire safety procedures in place.
Porter, you mean just construction and not design, upon enlargeable they look different.
Alex I don't have any documentation but from what I have heard ABC was bought after the fire..... no longer made razors but continued as a metal fabrication compny under the ABC name though owned by a parent company through the 80's.I think they eventually became the button factory company in Newark NJ http://www.manta.com/c/mtmrhbc/button-factory-corp though this is a lot of speculation.
Other than some directory entries in 1920 showing an American Button Company in New York City at 1123 Broadway and another in 1922 in Rochester, NY, I can't find any further information on them after the fire and subsequent lawsuits, but that doesn't mean all that much on its own. They wouldn't have been forced to close through any means other than bankruptcy anyway, though. And even when companies do go bankrupt their assets, including brands, are most often acquired by other companies, as Aschecte is suggesting above. It's entirely possible that their negligence being cited would have limited or eliminated entirely their ability to claim against their insurance policies, leaving few options for them to rebuild their business afterwards.
Regardless, I still believe that Gillette had stopped using them before the fire would have even come into play anyway.
Well, yes, I did mean just the construction when I said that it's got "a handle that's basically the same construction as the ball-end's."
The Milady Décolleté's handle is a hollow tube with press-fit ends just like the ball-end handle, so if Gillette was making one it would stand to reason that they were probably making both.
Thanks Alex, my wife recently made a presentation to her Garden Club using a "show and tell" about ladies' razors that I put together with the décolleté, cased two piece small travel set, Lady TTO Star Gillette, and a disposable straight with a lady's personal experience from another Forum, etc. Since most of the Club are ages from 50-70+, there was a lot of memories and discussion. Your research of the décolleté was very helpful.
Hello All,
This is only my second post but I have been "lurking" around many of the shaving forums for some time. However, this is the only one that I have joined as a member. I'd firstly like to thank some members whose advice has been especially helpful - alex2363, Chief Broom, Achim and mdevine.
I have a puzzlement with a Gillette ABC that I have just acquired. The most curious aspects are the bakelite box, the different top of the handle and the apparent lack of a letter in front of the number. As I haven't received the razor yet (just couldn't wait to post), the later point will be subject to some future intense scrutiny. Here are some photos:
I haven't seen a bakelite box that has been reduced in size for the razor only. I also cannot find any record of an ABC in a bakelite box. The Gillette triangle with arrow seems to have been an addition, and I bought the razor, firstly because I don't have an ABC and secondly on the chance that it may turn out to be the elusive 1907 model or perhaps a prototype???
Hmmm, I think I'd better settle down, stop conclusion jumping and wait for comments from those more learned than I.
This is only my second post but I have been "lurking" around many of the shaving forums for some time. However, this is the only one that I have joined as a member. I'd firstly like to thank some members whose advice has been especially helpful - alex2363, Chief Broom, Achim and mdevine.
I have a puzzlement with a Gillette ABC that I have just acquired. The most curious aspects are the bakelite box, the different top of the handle and the apparent lack of a letter in front of the number. As I haven't received the razor yet (just couldn't wait to post), the later point will be subject to some future intense scrutiny. Here are some photos:
I haven't seen a bakelite box that has been reduced in size for the razor only. I also cannot find any record of an ABC in a bakelite box. The Gillette triangle with arrow seems to have been an addition, and I bought the razor, firstly because I don't have an ABC and secondly on the chance that it may turn out to be the elusive 1907 model or perhaps a prototype???
Hmmm, I think I'd better settle down, stop conclusion jumping and wait for comments from those more learned than I.
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Well, I'm not an expert by any means, but that box looks like one of the old military Bakelite razor boxes. Possibly a miss match. As far as the serial numbers are concerned the letter prefix is usually very hard to see. Something to do with over used type sets. Hope that helps you.
It appears that I have jumped the gun. I just found the box - I was looking in the wrong era. It is on mr-razor as a 1949 Tech Set No27, so it is mismatched. At least 1949 is my birth year. So that only leaves the different handle - almost the twin ring model shown on page 1 but without the second ring - and the serial number.
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That serial number might be 1907: I think I can see 942154. But I might also see traces of a letter in front, which could put it into 1909 (A) or 1911 (B). A diamond logo on the other side of the guard plate would also suggest 1909 or later.
When you get the razor, let us know.
When you get the razor, let us know.
There's no diamond logo on the other side of the guard plate.
I tried doing a Photoshop inversion on the serial number and it showed something there in front but it didn't look like a letter.
Are A and B the only possibilities? Could it be made by Gillette and not ABC?
When the razor arrives I'll try the aluminium foil method that has worked for me on old gravestones for my family history.
I tried doing a Photoshop inversion on the serial number and it showed something there in front but it didn't look like a letter.
Are A and B the only possibilities? Could it be made by Gillette and not ABC?
When the razor arrives I'll try the aluminium foil method that has worked for me on old gravestones for my family history.
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They weren't making the Pocket Editions back in 1907, and it's perfectly normal for the razors not to have the Gillette diamond/"Made in..." stamping even well after the diamond logo was in use on the cases. Those don't seem to have become standard until more like 1912-1913ish.
The ABC sets could also carry an early "C" series number. But in your case my money would be on it being the remnants of an "A." It's extremely common to see a weak strike on the first letter of these to the point of near illegibility. It seems that they weren't always as mindful of replacing the dies as they wore down through thousands of repeated imprints. And then you factor in some amount of wear and tear over the years on top of that...
Good, thanks. What I was trying to say was that a diamond logo would rule out 1907, and I mentioned that because GBinOZ had asked about "the chance that it may turn out to be the elusive 1907 model or perhaps a prototype". I was not suggesting that lack of a diamond logo would prove much of anything.
While this thread is active, can I ask ABC experts to review American_Button_Co_Pocket_Editions on the wiki? I tried to pull in some of the knowledge from this thread, including the sighting of a D7xxxxx. Should the production dates be 1908-1917?
Could anyone supply dimensions: weight and total length (height), preferably in grams and mm?
I don't believe that's a "D" at all. Gillette's "D" begins to curve farther back -- almost at the glyph's center line -- where the radius on the "B" is much tighter since it has to reach vertical much more quickly. Also comparing a couple of B-series ABC razor that I have handy (B367349 and B654814) with a definite D-series razor (D606769), the fonts actually look slightly different. The D-series font has a taller, less rounded look -- a bit more "modern" looking than the B-series font.
It's most noticeable in the glyphs like the "6" and "3" in the one you referenced there earlier in this thread, and it's pretty clearly the older style font to my eye.
Also, I'd want something more definitive than a partially struck serial number to overturn everything else I've seen, which points to Gillette having phased out the ABC sets somewhere in the 1914-1915 timeframe.
I could certainly weigh and measure the ones I have, but with so many different variations and combinations of head and handle styles it would probably be a pretty serious undertaking to catalog them all, and I'm not sure really how useful that would be. It's not like weight would be used as an identifying characteristic like it is with say the HD/MD/LD Rockets. All the same, I could find some time to put mine on my scale if folks think it would be of interest.
I see your point. I will update the page with that in mind. We can always revisit if more convincing evidence emerges.
I would appreciate it, and I recognize that the ABCs were even more variable than other Gillettes. Rough numbers are fine.
Great work Porter and Mblakele, as always very fun and informative, and it is explained within a reasonable word length so readers can stay tuned.
All seven of my ABC razors are very close to 82mm in length. Their weights are as follows:
Silver Empire = 50.1 grams
Gold Empire = 54.5 grams
Gold Floral = 43.3 grams (yes, I double checked this one)
Gold Foral = 52.5 grams
Gold Scroll = 54.2 grams
Silver Scroll = 53.4 grams
Sliver Shell = 53.3 grams
Average with the outlier included is 51.7 grams
Average without the outlier is 53 grams
*edit
All of mine have the square gaps.
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