Yes, but some of it love it as a shave soap, some love it as a learning experience, some love it as an accelerant…. I‘m in the loving it as a shave soap camp.
Guess what the highest rated shave soap on Amazon is? Go ahead. Guess.
- Thread starter JCinPA
- Start date
Yes, but some of it love it as a shave soap, some love it as a learning experience, some love it as an accelerant…. I‘m in the loving it as a shave soap camp.
If @FarmerTan likes Arko then I like Arko too. What a great man to have on this forum.
My daddy always told me… “there are two kinds of people in this world.… People that love Arco and people that are stupid… are you stupid, son?” Yes. Yes, I am.
I also really detest thread hijackers. It’s a disgrace to the B&B community.
How to get to space? Sell lots of Arko.
She was wise my friend. I pray I live to see grandkids. But either way, you will never meet anyone more blessed than I am.
(I'll have what he's having.)
Holy smokes!I thought I'd get a reaction to this, but not with all the emotional energy! lol
It never ceases to amaze me how much emotional energy some folks put into defending (attacking) shave product choices. I started out by stating I take Amazon ratings with a grain of salt, however, there will be some intelligence in them. And I'm not so sure there is a lot more intelligence in some of the ratings here.
What made me laugh was the ridicule I took from some of the cognescenti here over Williams ten years back, and now some of them are in the Williams brotherhood. They discovered what I already knew for decades, I'm just tickled that they came around to it. Other of the more wizened (that means older) members here were always able to get a good shave with Williams, apparently, too, it was the newly initiated who had trouble with it, and then they became some of its biggest fans. That was what caused me to get a kick out of this state of affairs.
I will make a statement that may get me in trouble, though about YMMV. A product in widespread use cannot simultaneously be in both the top 10% of products and the bottom 10% of products. This, notwithstanding the fact that you may absolutely hate a very popular product. I wouldn't buy MdC if my life depended on it, but I won't argue that it's not a top-tier product, because I respect the informed opinion of others who are quite experienced.
I also won't put Williams in the top-tier of products even though some believe it should be. It's probably (performance-wise) a 4 out of 5, realistically. But if you cannot get it to lather or you think it's absolute garbage, well, that's not YMMV, that means you simply do not know what you are doing with it, pure and simple. A product with hundreds of users will fall in (about) at most 2 adjacent categories on a 5-point scale. I'd guess that based on the large number of users, Williams is probably in the 3-4 star ratings neighborhood, despite the fact that some individuals are gaga over it, and others think it is junk.
But it's been around long enough that if you can't lather it, that's on you, not Williams. Williams will be lathered the way it wants to be lathered, not the way you want to lather it, or the way you lather other products. If you put the puck in a mug, fill it with water while you shower, and soak the brush on top of it, then dump the water out, shake the brush gently a few times and go to town on a puck of Williams, you cannot help but make a great lather, it practically lathers itself. But, apparently, it does not respond well to the way other soaps lather. But if you cannot get a lather out of it, it's your fault, objectively, not YMMV. It's just not that hard. Watch a few vids. And you're not required to like it.
Anyway, I suspect I'll get a great shave from my Williams when it comes. I also suspect I won't join the Williams brotherhood. But this was just funny to me because it's a respectable shaving product that never got any ten years ago around here. Now it does. And people still feel the need to bash it. I'd love to do a Psychology dissertation on the shaving community, it would be fascinating.
Interestingly enough, there seems to be an ebb and flow to the way people feel about Williams here. A few years ago it was hard to find anyone who actually liked it, and now the pendulum seems to have swung the other way where a lot more seem to really like it. There is still a sizable number that just can't get it to work with their water and brush etc, but there is also a lot more information around on how to lather it so it seems there are more who are now successful at getting a good shave from it.
I'm much to ADD to try to lather Williams. I just rub the puck on my face and go to town. "The Gilded Hand", OLD Old Spice, Colgate....ALL are MAHVELOUS soaps when used this way. And no, your mileage shouldn't vary. Trust me. Have I EVER steered you wrong?
Someone has more time on their hands than I do!
It looks like Kirko is orbiting the bowl.
Holy smokes!
It never ceases to amaze me how much emotional energy some folks put into defending (attacking) shave product choices. I started out by stating I take Amazon ratings with a grain of salt, however, there will be some intelligence in them. And I'm not so sure there is a lot more intelligence in some of the ratings here
What made me laugh was the ridicule I took from some of the cognescenti here over Williams ten years back, and now some of them are in the Williams brotherhood. They discovered what I already knew for decades, I'm just tickled that they came around to it. Other of the more wizened (that means older) members here were always able to get a good shave with Williams, apparently, too, it was the newly initiated who had trouble with it, and then they became some of its biggest fans. That was what caused me to get a kick out of this state of affairs.
I will make a statement that may get me in trouble, though about YMMV. A product in widespread use cannot simultaneously be in both the top 10% of products and the bottom 10% of products. This, notwithstanding the fact that you may absolutely hate a very popular product. I wouldn't buy MdC if my life depended on it, but I won't argue that it's not a top-tier product, because I respect the informed opinion of others who are quite experienced.
I also won't put Williams in the top-tier of products even though some believe it should be. It's probably (performance-wise) a 4 out of 5, realistically. But if you cannot get it to lather or you think it's absolute garbage, well, that's not YMMV, that means you simply do not know what you are doing with it, pure and simple. A product with hundreds of users will fall in (about) at most 2 adjacent categories on a 5-point scale. I'd guess that based on the large number of users, Williams is probably in the 3-4 star ratings neighborhood, despite the fact that some individuals are gaga over it, and others think it is junk.
But it's been around long enough that if you can't lather it, that's on you, not Williams. Williams will be lathered the way it wants to be lathered, not the way you want to lather it, or the way you lather other products. If you put the puck in a mug, fill it with water while you shower, and soak the brush on top of it, then dump the water out, shake the brush gently a few times and go to town on a puck of Williams, you cannot help but make a great lather, it practically lathers itself. But, apparently, it does not respond well to the way other soaps lather. But if you cannot get a lather out of it, it's your fault, objectively, not YMMV. It's just not that hard. Watch a few vids. And you're not required to like it.
Anyway, I suspect I'll get a great shave from my Williams when it comes. I also suspect I won't join the Williams brotherhood. But this was just funny to me because it's a respectable shaving product that never got any ten years ago around here. Now it does. And people still feel the need to bash it. I'd love to do a Psychology dissertation on the shaving community, it would be fascinating.
John, you have been a personal friend of mine for many years and I am so happy that you are now fully back to our beloved forum! Your detailed insights, passionate comments and keen observations are something that I always read with eager eyes because coming from a very knowledgeable and respectable person.
You are an OUTSTANDING MEMBER and a TRUE FRIEND.
Well said.
- Thread starter
- #55
JCinPA
The Lather Maestro
Today's shave!
Pre: Shower
Razor: Gillette fat-handled tech
Blade: Gillette 7 O'Clock Yellow, 2nd shave
Brush: Omega B&B Anniversary
Soap: Williams!
After shave: Thayer's WH, followed by Pinaud Clubman
DFS 8.5 / 10
Got some Williams for old time's sake, have not used it in 10 years. Used it as I remembered, soak puck while I showered, soak brush. At shave time pour water out, shake brush a little and go to town on top of the puck (used vntage Old Spice mug). Continue to use brush on top of the puck in the mug, rather than move to another bowl. The lather is ridiculously slick, although not as dense and cushiony as others--shave was nonetheless comfortable and close.
Not something I'll be joining the Brotherhood for, but it's a solid, middle-of-the-road soap. Not exciting, not junk, either. Works well, as I remember it from decades of use. If used in the manner I've described it is a perfectly respectable shaving soap. I don't quite get the fan base in the brotherhood--I guess pride in beating a mediocre product into submission? But it also does not deserver the opprobrium it garners. I'd put it at 3.5 stars out of 5.
Pre: Shower
Razor: Gillette fat-handled tech
Blade: Gillette 7 O'Clock Yellow, 2nd shave
Brush: Omega B&B Anniversary
Soap: Williams!
After shave: Thayer's WH, followed by Pinaud Clubman
DFS 8.5 / 10
Got some Williams for old time's sake, have not used it in 10 years. Used it as I remembered, soak puck while I showered, soak brush. At shave time pour water out, shake brush a little and go to town on top of the puck (used vntage Old Spice mug). Continue to use brush on top of the puck in the mug, rather than move to another bowl. The lather is ridiculously slick, although not as dense and cushiony as others--shave was nonetheless comfortable and close.
Not something I'll be joining the Brotherhood for, but it's a solid, middle-of-the-road soap. Not exciting, not junk, either. Works well, as I remember it from decades of use. If used in the manner I've described it is a perfectly respectable shaving soap. I don't quite get the fan base in the brotherhood--I guess pride in beating a mediocre product into submission? But it also does not deserver the opprobrium it garners. I'd put it at 3.5 stars out of 5.
Dear John,
A few years ago I was given a Williams Mug Shaving Soap from a B&B member for an evaluation. Basically, I came to your exact conclusions above. The soap was certainly slick, but failed in other compartments: ease of latherability, lather stability, cushion and post shave feel were my major disappointments. All in all a honest soap that can give an acceptable shave, but nothing more. Your definition of middle-of-the-road is spot on IMHO.
- Thread starter
- #57
JCinPA
The Lather Maestro
So, this begs the question: Why is there a brotherhood for this workable, but mediocre soap? What is the motivation? At the price of Cella, for but one example, why are knowledgeable shavers here forming a group dedicated to it? I mean, the Economics is not that compelling; Cella is not an expensive product (more expensive, sure, but not pricey in its own right) and Cella is clearly, in an objective sense (I think we can dispense with the YMMV in this heads-up comparison), much better than Williams.
This also certainly sheds some light on the value of Amazon reviews. What would happen if those reviewers were introduced to Cella, or a Stirling soap, for example? It would blow their minds. Still, my chuckles were from being told it was unusable when I first joined here when I had happily used it to good effect for almost three decades. I was not aware of Cella at the time, but I was an expert with Williams, I suppose, and could have shown anyone here how to get a decent lather out of it in about 5 minutes. But, I learned how much better Cella was and was never tempted to buy Williams again, until now.
So ... some of you WISE members ... what's the draw to Williams nowadays? It is inarguably one of the slickest soaps on the planet, but as Marco so aptly puts it, while it is certainly a workable shave soap, it is clearly inferior in so many other aspects. Curious minds want to know. What is the draw? It would be unfathomable to me that this would actually be anyone's favorite shave soap. Maybe slickness alone is a sufficient criterion, I suppose--it really is hard to find a slicker soap.
Edit: I'm not trying to stir the pot or fan the flames of emotion here, I really am simply curious. Lest you feel I'm critical of your being a big fan of Williams (I'm not) let's try this thought experiment. Imagine an artisan soap maker created Williams, the current version, today, and asked for people here to try it and post their thoughts. It would be excoriated, for sure, when compared to old standards like Cella, or new wunderproducts like Stirling or A&E, et al. That's what I'm trying to figure out. It's not as awful as its detractors claim, I always knew that. But what is the draw? Thank you.
This also certainly sheds some light on the value of Amazon reviews. What would happen if those reviewers were introduced to Cella, or a Stirling soap, for example? It would blow their minds. Still, my chuckles were from being told it was unusable when I first joined here when I had happily used it to good effect for almost three decades. I was not aware of Cella at the time, but I was an expert with Williams, I suppose, and could have shown anyone here how to get a decent lather out of it in about 5 minutes. But, I learned how much better Cella was and was never tempted to buy Williams again, until now.
So ... some of you WISE members ... what's the draw to Williams nowadays? It is inarguably one of the slickest soaps on the planet, but as Marco so aptly puts it, while it is certainly a workable shave soap, it is clearly inferior in so many other aspects. Curious minds want to know. What is the draw? It would be unfathomable to me that this would actually be anyone's favorite shave soap. Maybe slickness alone is a sufficient criterion, I suppose--it really is hard to find a slicker soap.
Edit: I'm not trying to stir the pot or fan the flames of emotion here, I really am simply curious. Lest you feel I'm critical of your being a big fan of Williams (I'm not) let's try this thought experiment. Imagine an artisan soap maker created Williams, the current version, today, and asked for people here to try it and post their thoughts. It would be excoriated, for sure, when compared to old standards like Cella, or new wunderproducts like Stirling or A&E, et al. That's what I'm trying to figure out. It's not as awful as its detractors claim, I always knew that. But what is the draw? Thank you.
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John, my humble opinion is that the glorious history of the company, which has been on the market since 1840 (hence, over 180 years), is playing a big role here. There certainly is an "affection" and pride for a brand that belongs to the US culture and tradition since the times of our great-great-grandfathers.
As for slickness alone the brushless Cremo is hard to surpass, isn't is?
- Thread starter
- #59
JCinPA
The Lather Maestro
Never tried that one. You may be right about the history, though.
Really, John? Here is their web-site Best Shaving Cream for Men - Shaving Creams & Accessories | Cremo - https://cremocompany.com/mens-shave
Time ago they also added a few sticks, but I really do not know if they are brushless too as the creams or not.
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