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- #81
Grammar goofs and syntax slips
- Thread starter Rory1262
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Really interesting article about how English changed over the centuries:
getpocket.com
English Is Not Normal
No, English isn’t uniquely vibrant or mighty or adaptable. But it really is weirder than pretty much every other language.
simon1
Self Ignored by Vista
Gee...I didn't know I was going to be graded on message board posts.
One thing that irks me is contractions. No, it ain't the word contractions...it's the ones in the lower part of the body.
www.lexico.com
One thing that irks me is contractions. No, it ain't the word contractions...it's the ones in the lower part of the body.
Dictionary.com | Meanings & Definitions of English Words
The world's leading online dictionary: English definitions, synonyms, word origins, example sentences, word games, and more. A trusted authority for 25+ years!
www.lexico.com
I was thinking about that thisafternoon.
Butchering Latin.
Like saying exsetra. Its Et Cetera, with a hard "c".
And at that, using etc. When you mean et al. Or using i.e. when you mean e.g.
People butcher French language almost as often.
Please dont use other languages if you dont know them.
Like saying exsetra. Its Et Cetera, with a hard "c".
And at that, using etc. When you mean et al. Or using i.e. when you mean e.g.
People butcher French language almost as often.
Please dont use other languages if you dont know them.
I wouldn't sweat mispronunciations of 'foreign' words. As languages adopt words from other languages, they get -icized and change over time, sometimes drastically.
An amusing example is a friend of mine who visited Italy and learned Bruschetta is actually pronounced 'broosket-tuh'. As opposed to the Anglicized 'bruhshetuh'. He came back to the US and went around saying it the Italian way for a week or so and sounded like a pretentious tool.
If you go to France and a native French speaker pronounces cheeseburger as 'sheezbehrgehr' are you going to correct them? No. It could be argued that it's simply an accent, but how many words are adopted exactly as pronounced by the donor language? Then they change even more over time.
The English often pronounce Merlot as 'muh(r)laht'. Americans pronounce it 'murloh'. Both are correct according to their region.
Brits say Nissan nothing like the Japanese.
I can pronounce and understand quite a bit of Latin so I understand your point but correcting an everyday English speaker about the commonly pronounced soft C in 'Et Cetera' and insisting it is pronounced like a K is silly.
Do you correct someone pronouncing German Latin when you prefer Italian Latin? Of course not.
Now, the i.e. vs. e.g. thing gets my grammatical goat.
An amusing example is a friend of mine who visited Italy and learned Bruschetta is actually pronounced 'broosket-tuh'. As opposed to the Anglicized 'bruhshetuh'. He came back to the US and went around saying it the Italian way for a week or so and sounded like a pretentious tool.
If you go to France and a native French speaker pronounces cheeseburger as 'sheezbehrgehr' are you going to correct them? No. It could be argued that it's simply an accent, but how many words are adopted exactly as pronounced by the donor language? Then they change even more over time.
The English often pronounce Merlot as 'muh(r)laht'. Americans pronounce it 'murloh'. Both are correct according to their region.
Brits say Nissan nothing like the Japanese.
I can pronounce and understand quite a bit of Latin so I understand your point but correcting an everyday English speaker about the commonly pronounced soft C in 'Et Cetera' and insisting it is pronounced like a K is silly.
Do you correct someone pronouncing German Latin when you prefer Italian Latin? Of course not.
Now, the i.e. vs. e.g. thing gets my grammatical goat.
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I agree that etc., et al., e.g., and i.e. are often misused, and often incorrectly punctuated. I am not sure I would consider them "another" language, exactly, though, even though the originated as Latin terms. I would say they have been adopted by English.
I would say that the pronunciation of the "c" in et cetera as an "s" is standard American English, and the various on-line dictionaries seem to support that, as well as a hard "c" as being correct, although I cannot recall ever hearing it pronounced as a hard "c." I am guessing that lots of "Latin" legal terms are generally not pronounced as Caesar would have pronounced them.
I think lots of words that are adopted into English in common use do not necessarily retain the original pronunciations, although I would say the original pronunciation should be considered correct, too. ("Chaise lounge" comes to mind.) I do not think I am capable of correctly pronouncing some foreign language originating terms I use frequently enough. I suppose though one could say that I might tend to think of anything I personally do not do as potentially pedantic!
I would say that the pronunciation of the "c" in et cetera as an "s" is standard American English, and the various on-line dictionaries seem to support that, as well as a hard "c" as being correct, although I cannot recall ever hearing it pronounced as a hard "c." I am guessing that lots of "Latin" legal terms are generally not pronounced as Caesar would have pronounced them.
I think lots of words that are adopted into English in common use do not necessarily retain the original pronunciations, although I would say the original pronunciation should be considered correct, too. ("Chaise lounge" comes to mind.) I do not think I am capable of correctly pronouncing some foreign language originating terms I use frequently enough. I suppose though one could say that I might tend to think of anything I personally do not do as potentially pedantic!
Oh, I see that alot.
Ok ... I'm with you but ...
First, there's the difference between classical pronunciation (e.g. "Yoolioos Kaiser" went to England and said "weeny weedy weeky") and the Mediaeval version of Latin pronuncuation with all the soft "c"s and "vee" sounds and such.
Then, there's also the issue of foreign words being adopted into the English language and "becoming English" with a new pronunciation. Should we still be trying to pronounce Wednesday as "Woden's Day", or is "Wenns-dy" good enough?
But yes, we should not rush to the lowest common denominator of pronunciation either.
Oh yes. Most people don't seem to understand the difference, and use the two terms completely interchangeably. Makes me sad.
Cairo (Kay-ro), Illinois, vs Cairo( Kai-ro), Egypt. OTOH, have heard it claimed that the German kaiser is pronounced like caesar was in Julius' day.
Wow, all impressive stuff my fellow B&B member scholars!
The spectrum of the pronunciation of geographic names is really something.
The spectrum of the pronunciation of geographic names is really something.
Far in the north of British Columbia, near the start of the Alaska Highway, is the small town of Pouce Coupé.
Sophistimacated urbanites from far away would no doubt notice the French origins of the name and pronounce it "POOS coo-PAY". Thus marking themselves out as "not a local". It's actually "POOS COOP-y" (Rhymes with "noose droopy".)
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- #95
I'd have found that pretentious only if he were putting on an accent. I've actually never heard it pronounced with the -sh sound.
He fortunately did not affect an accent. That would have indeed been insufferably pretentious.
That's interesting. Maybe it's pronounced differently within different regions of the US? Where are you located? *edit*, nevermind, I see you're in Brooklyn. Maybe because you have proper Italian cuisine in NY, that means proper pronunciation.
At least in the bland upper Midwest, everybody pronounces it 'bruhshetuh'. I recall a trend in the 90s-early 2000s where every restaurant (and that restaurant's mother) put bruschetta on the menu. Because it's just cheap vegetables on toast. A high margin item. Neither in-person nor in TV ads did anybody pronounce it the original Italian way.
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- #97
Maybe! A lot of the Italian-Americans I know here have a "relaxed" way of pronouncing their ancestral language. Example: braciole becoming "brazhol."
I may have to start a pronunciation thread!
Seems to be mostly "bruhshetuh" in DC, too.
I think I read somewhere that that is a very Sicilian thing to do--to super shorten food names. But what do I know! All I know is what I watched in The Sopranos.
I think I read somewhere that that is a very Sicilian thing to do--to super shorten food names. But what do I know! All I know is what I watched in The Sopranos.
For native speakers, it's common to elide.
lol.
Lately, Brushetta seems to have given way to Crostini.
lol.
Lately, Brushetta seems to have given way to Crostini.
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