Gotta Restoration

[rbscebu]

This 120 Gotta 6/8 full hollow came with one of those horrible "Bengall" SRs that everyone should avoid. I needed to take that Bengall out of circulation so that others would not suffer.

As received, the Gotta was not too bad. The scales were broken, a fare amount of wear on both the spine and bevel and some rust on the bevel both sides that extended to the edge.

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First in this restoration is to make a suitable set of timber (I'm a timber sort of bloke) scales. I am going to try and inlay the "GOTTA" brass inlay part of the original scales into the new timber scales. I have chosen Burmese teak for these new scales.

Today I cut out the scales profile in teak and then set about cutting the "GOTTA" inlay section out of the original celluloid scales. The celluloid was 2.5mm thick and my teak was 3.5mm thick, so I sanded the celluloid piece down to 2mm thick. Hopefully this will give sufficient backing to the celluloid piece when inlaid.

My first problem is that I didn't allow enough width in the teak scales to accommodate the celluloid inlay.

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I considered decreasing the height of the celluloid piece but decided that would not looked balanced with the stroke width of the brass lettering. Over the weekend I will design and cut out a new set of scales, still in Burmese teak, that will better suit the height of the inlay piece.

My thoughts are to use a mini router to cut away the timber to insert the celluloid piece in as an inlay. Maybe I should first play with this idea on a scrap piece of teak before trying it out on the new set of teak scales.

Once I finish this SR restoration, I will probably PIF it to a worthy member.

 

[duke762]

Mini router...always wanted to mess with one. I worry about how controllable they are. Small cutters are surprisingly grabby sometimes. Yes Sir, I'd practice first. Let me know how it goes please. I've considered the possibilities but have never pulled the trigger on one.

Nice blade for a restore, much nicer than a lot of the ones I struggle with. I did notice that it's about time to work on the stabilizer. A very good time to do it is while it's apart.

 

[rbscebu]

....
Nice blade for a restore, much nicer than a lot of the ones I struggle with. I did notice that it's about time to work on the stabilizer. A very good time to do it is while it's apart.

I agree with you. I will be restoring the Dutch point and will probably rework the heel at the same time.

 

[rbscebu]

Just did some quick research.

The Gotta was manufactured by Grah & Plümacher, Rasiermasserfabrik, Solingen-Weyer. They were in business 1881-1952. In 1922, the busness was located at Gräfratherstrasse, 25. The owner later was Hugo Plümacher (died 1970). Their tademarks were "Silver Ring", "The Gael" and "The Gotta".

 

[mycarver]

I see you’re following my recommendations . Here’s another. If you do use a mini router first draw the scale on your wood. Then position where the inlay will be and do the cut out.
Then cut out the scale profile. It will be less tippy than trying to use a router on a narrow scale as the base as your photo seems to indicate.

I’ve never used a mini router for all the inlays I’ve done. If you have a dremel or a derivative there are diamond bits available ( quite reasonable for a set) in a variety of shapes that do a good job and are not grabby at all.
I just pop them in my micro motor ( variable up to 40,000 rpm) and off I go. Horn, wood,ivory, shell. Cuts them all.

 

[mycarver]

One other suggestion is to just remove the script from the old scale and use it as an onlay.
I’ve done that many times as well.

 

[rbscebu]

I see you’re following my recommendations . Here’s another. If you do use a mini router first draw the scale on your wood. Then position where the inlay will be and do the cut out.
Then cut out the scale profile. It will be less tippy than trying to use a router on a narrow scale as the base as your photo seems to indicate.

I’ve never used a mini router for all the inlays I’ve done. If you have a dremel or a derivative there are diamond bits available ( quite reasonable for a set) in a variety of shapes that do a good job and are not grabby at all.
I just pop them in my micro motor ( variable up to 40,000 rpm) and off I go. Horn, wood,ivory, shell. Cuts them all.

My mini router (up to 37k rpm) is a Dremel type with a router head attachment.

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That's a Demel press next to my Dremel. A handy accessory.

I also have a set of diamond bits for the Dremel which I will use rather than its normal router bits. A much appreciated suggestion.

Your advice on doing the routing before profile cutting the scales is also very much appreciated. Why didn't I think of that?

I think I will spend this weekend working on this razor's blade. The scales work will start on Monday after I give it more thought.

 

[mycarver]

Dremels are a decent tool. I’m just not a decent guy. I burned up 6 in one year.
Mikita angle grinders ? 5. Got tired of that for sure.
In my work a tool has to earn its keep. And do what I want.
I tend to beat the cr*p out of tools. And I want them to perform.

 

[rbscebu]

My only powered tool is the Dremel which has previously only been used to drill pin holes. Everything else is done my hand.

 

[mycarver]

That’s cool. Use what you have. It’s all good
With most tools you can get more out of them than they were designed for.
It sounds like you’re under utilizing your dremel.

 

[duke762]

Man....I would expect the diamond bits to load up fast and start burning. A carbide burr may be a more appropriate tool, or a tiny carbide milling cutter. I've never used a dremel as a router so I can't say for sure but I think the abrasive points will give you trouble.

Yes, I agree with mycarver, inlay the blank, not the formed scale.

One other suggestion is to just remove the script from the old scale and use it as an onlay.
I’ve done that many times as well.

Any pics or tips on how you do it would be real nice......

 

[mycarver]

Man....I would expect the diamond bits to load up fast and start burning. A carbide burr may be a more appropriate tool, or a tiny carbide milling cutter. I've never used a dremel as a router so I can't say for sure but I think the abrasive points will give you trouble.

Yes, I agree with mycarver, inlay the blank, not the formed scale.



Any pics or tips on how you do it would be real nice......

Duke762…You’ve never used them but you’re giving advice?
“Man,, I would expect the diamond bits to load up fast and burn”.
And you never used any of this stuff?
You can’t show an example of why they won’t work only because you’re guessing about something you’ve never used or have done?
I’m certainly no authority but at least I can give some examples from over 35 years as a full time wood worker to know , and give an opinion as to what actually does work. And what I have actually used and done and can show results.
If you think they are sub par and don’t meet you standards of workmanship that’s fine.
That I continue to use on a daily basis to finance my life.
I’ll never give advice based on guesses just
So I can say something on a post.
You want examples? Starting from my beginning carving decoys using primarily diamond bits. To inlays on razor scales in wood, ivory, acrylic.

These weren’t guesses.

 

[mycarver]

Razors? The item in question? Here are just a few as you , duke762 requested.
By the way.
I also carved all the scales posted here with the bits you guess, imagine , whatever,,,would burn or clog up. If I know what works. I post it. I don’t guess about something I’ve never done and offer it as a solution. If I don’t know , I don’t know. If I had some success , I’ll post it.
I think they look OK.
Thanks.

View attachment 1656628

 

[Legion]

I've got a set of diamond bits for my Dremel, and they seem to work fine on wood. I've never used them in a router attachment, though I don't see why that would be a issue. I usually use them in a flex shaft, because it's easier to do fine detail than trying to hold the whole tool in your hand.

 

[rbscebu]

I've got a set of diamond bits for my Dremel, and they seem to work fine on wood. I've never used them in a router attachment, though I don't see why that would be a issue. I usually use them in a flex shaft, because it's easier to do fine detail than trying to hold the whole tool in your hand.

I also have a flex shaft for my Dremel. That is mainly used when I am reprofiling a blade with a grinding bit underwater. Prevents the blade from overheating.

 

[mycarver]

A couple other tips you might consider.
Instead of keeping the sides of your insert 90 degrees bevel them slightly. Makes fitting a bit easier. And as you’re sanding /fitting back and forth sometimes the insert gets stuck. Helps to eliminate that. Or you can drill a small hole in the bottom ( pin size) so you can push the insert out from behind and not try to pry it out from the top if it does get stuck. Depends how tight your fit is.

You might consider making your cutout deeper than the thickness of your insert. This way you can basically float the insert on a bed of adhesive and press it flush without having to match the exact depth.
Any glue squeeze out here could be helpful.
If you make a little pile of sawdust
Prior to gluing wipe off excess glue and sprinkle some of the sawdust over the insert letting it fill any little gaps that might be there. It’s a perfect color match to the wood.

In most of my pieces I was able to leave them slightly proud of the surface and sand them flush.
You won’t have this option.

 

[rbscebu]

I have finished cleaning up the blade of this 120 Gotta restore. First I bread-knifed the edge back to good steel. This removed most of the bevel so that the bevel angle is now 180°. I know some don't like the idea of such drastic bread-knifing, but I do as it works for me.

Next I reprofiled the point back to its original Dutch style. Then a little grinding on the heel area to clean that up. Fortunately the stabiliser also has a hollow grind so it doesn't add greatly to the difficulty of honing.

With the heavy metalwork done, it was then on to the laborious task of polishing up the blade. I started with 600 grit W&D. Then I worked through 800, 1k and 2k before finishing with Autosol paste. Keeping in mind the expected target user for this SR, I decided to not take the polishing any further. There was no noticeable further deterioration of the blade's face etching ("HAMBURG RING" overlaid with "GOTTA").

So far, I am pleased with the result.

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My professional work will be keeping me busy today so I will start on the scales tomorrow (Monday).

 

[duke762]

Duke762…You’ve never used them but you’re giving advice?
“Man,, I would expect the diamond bits to load up fast and burn”.
And you never used any of this stuff?
You can’t show an example of why they won’t work only because you’re guessing about something you’ve never used or have done?

Yes sir, I stand corrected. I'm 45 year journeyman tool and die maker and have used pencil type grinders nearly every day. Hand held grinders frequently like to pull themselves in the direction the tool is spinning. In my line of work, hand held grinders of any sort, are a weapon of last resort and imprecision, used sparingly and only on work that can't be performed any other way but used frequently for deburring. Big difference between your experiences with them than mine. Yes, I have never used a Dremel with a router base. I have never used any abrasive on wood that didn't load. Files load, sand paper, burrs, are diamond wheels some how immune to this?

You sir, are a freaking master! Thank you for posting your work!

You did all of that with a Dremel? No gouges or knives how about a fret saw? There is a Russian wood carver on youtube I love to watch.

Makes his own tools (only uses a couple tools) no power tools.

I can grind .00001" off of hardened tool steel, hold a tolerance to .0001" and program cnc's but I have no artistic talent what so ever.....

 

[mycarver]

Thank you. To be clear. The birds were total power tools. Just like the carved ivory scales they use a particular wood that is terrible to carve.
All my regular work is all wood chisels. Small power bits just clean up niooks and crannies.

I use “Dremel” as a reference being somewhat similar to the tool i use which is made by a company that makes dental drills.
Thanks again.