Got drills?

[tromboneliness]

Got any good drills? Let's hear about them!

I decided to try a new drill at the range today. Since I practice mostly with my carry gun--which I don't shoot as well as a bigger pistol--I've stuck with rudimentary stuff, but today I went exotic.

5x5 Drill

Designed by Bill Wilson

Distance: 10yds.
Target: IDPA
Start: facing target, hands at sides, no concealment garment
Rounds fired: 25
Penalty: ½ Second per point down

Four strings of fire, each timed, score is cumulative time

1. Draw and fire 5 shots two hands
2. Draw and fire 5 shots strong hand only
3. Draw and fire 5 shots two hands, reload from slidelock, fire 5 shots two hands
4. Draw and fire 4 shots to the body and 1 to the head, two hands

Bill Wilson suggests the following scoring:

15s or less - Grand Master
20s or less - Master
25s or less - Expert
32s or less - Sharpshooter
41s or less - Marksman
50s or less - Novice
Over 50s: Not Proficient Enough to Carry a Handgun (I kid you not!)

I used an IPSC target, calling the entire head as A-zone and the C-zone as the IDPA's -1. I also drew from concealment--makes sense although it hurts your score. Got a 40.93 the first time. I'd like to try it from a belt holster sometime just to see where I am.

It was better when I remembered to go fast slowly.

Drill as found at pistol-training.com
A bevy of drills at pistol-training.com

If you've got a good drill, please tell us about it.

 

[simon1]

I've never tried the 5X5 drill, but heard of it. Next time I'm where there are enough target stands available...I only have one but I could make more...I think I'll try the El Presidente. I saw a variation of it awhile back where you draw and fire two rounds at each of the three targets, reload on the run as you are moving behind a barricade, then fire two more rounds from behind the barricade into each target. Of course the time for it was a bit longer than the 10 seconds for the original El Presidene.

http://www.gunsandammo.com/video/el-presidente/

We used to do the same thing, only different, on some qualifications. There'd be 6 to 10 targets on the line, and you would start from low ready (there only being one person on the firing line) from 7 or 15 yards then transition to the randomly called targets during the string. If you were using a revolver you could only do six shot strings, two shots to three of the targets. If you had high caps. usually we did 10 rounds a string. I forgot what the time limit was now. Anyway, from a low ready someone would call which target to shoot at, and once you put two rounds it in he would call out another random target, quickly, then another until your ammo was depleted. Then you'd do a reload and he'd call out the random target number to shoot at again. Like,

3, 5, 2, 6, 4.

That got you to changing targets rapidly and on kinda short notice.

We did the same thing with shotguns, and also the rolling thunder drill.

In this video it looks like the guy at station number 4 has a bit of a "problem." None of my guys fumble-bumbled that bad.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txza5LeAqvU

 

[nortac]

In one class we would walk along the ten yard line parallel to the targets shooting one handed, so moving left to right you shot with your left hand, at the end of a row of targets, reload, switch hands and moving right to left shooting right hand only . Walking it was very easy, running it was very challenging.

 

[nortac]

Blind El Prez
Start with back to targets but with eyes closed....and KY jelly smeared on your shooting glasses (water soluble, easy to clean off afterwards). This simulated having been OC sprayed or blood in your eyes, etc. You still have to fight and survive. Really pisses off the game players if done in a competition (I did!) I modified the distance (closer) and staggered the targets a bit and at different heights to keep it asymmetrical.
Note: The RO applies the KY to the shooter's glasses after he has made ready, back to target and eyes closed. So when the buzzer goes off and the shooter opens his eyes, it's the first time he experiences his altered vision while doing the about face to engage the targets. Can be very disorienting to the shooter and requires even closer attention by the RO for safety reasons.

 

[dojpros]

My standard cold drill is as follows:

5 yrds/5 rounds/target area is 8 inch circle/
From conceament/hands at side/ at the beep, I take a big step off line and fire all 5.


with a .40 G35 I am in at 2.6 to 2.8. Ammo is 180g Speer FMJ or Gold Dot
with a 9mm G34 I am in at 2.35-2.6. Ammo is 115-147g factory FMJ or whatever I have onhand.

If I am dry firing 2 or 3 x a week for 5 minutes max and live firing 1 or 2x per month, I am at the lower end. If not I am at the higher end.

I cannot remember that last time I broke 3 seconds. I occasionally go slightly high left or low left with one round. I am a right handed shooter.

I have done this long enough to know that for me, there is no question I can shoot 9mm a bit faster than the exact same gun in .40 cal.
Indeed, the difference in split times is such that I can likely get 6 rounds off of 9mm in the time it takes me to shoot 5 .40 caliber rounds.


I concur with Nortac that you can tell a lot about a shooter by having them shoot an El Prez. I would also add asking someone to shot 5 rounds touching or as close to it as possible at 5 yrds with no time limit reveals a lit as well.

 

[simon1]

I found the modified El Prez drill...it was in an American Rifleman magazine. I found the online article. I like the magazine article better...it has pictures.

I've been able to do the failure drill in about two seconds with my 1911.

https://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/2011/6/22/self-defense-pistol-101/

 

[OkieStubble]

with a .40 G35 I am in at 2.6 to 2.8. Ammo is 180g Speer FMJ or Gold Dot
with a 9mm G34 I am in at 2.35-2.6. Ammo is 115-147g factory FMJ or whatever I have on hand.

Pretty damn impressive with .40.

 

[dojpros]

Thanks Okie.

Yesterday at IDPA the first COF was a take off from the "Yo Homie, is that my briefcase" scene from Collaterial.
Arms length from T1, at the beep from IWB concealment, fire 2 to the chest, transition to other target next to it and fire 2 to the body and 1 to the head. I managed a 2.69 clean with my ESP G35 [textured extensive OEM trigger components 5.5 TRS, 3.5 connector].
I was the first of about 40 shooters to break 3.00 clean. My 31 year old apprentice then put up a 1.98 clean. I would be stunned if anyone else was even close to that time.

Thankfully he continued his blazing speed over accuracy over the rest of the day and I suspect when the scores come out, I will prevail again. If and when IDPA goes to the 1 sec per point down rule v the .5 they have now, I think the result will be that fairly fast guys like me who practice will be competitive against younger freaks of nature. That is my hope anyway.

Now ask me about my accuracy at 15 and out

Indeed, what IDPA teaches me ( when I am not being a hard head) is that I need to present the weapon as fast as possible but then slow down and see what I need to see to make the shot I need to make, particularly at 10-15yds and out.

 

[tromboneliness]

Wow. I can see that I'll be shooting my little drills for a while before I can get into the kind of things you gents are doing!

Blind El Prez
Start with back to targets but with eyes closed....and KY jelly smeared on your shooting glasses (water soluble, easy to clean off afterwards). This simulated having been OC sprayed or blood in your eyes, etc. You still have to fight and survive.

That's just evil. But smart.

Subject for another thread, probably: what made you LEOs and former LEOs decide to go this far beyond the kind of LEO qualification tests we typically see, and which even I can pass?

 

[simon1]

Subject for another thread, probably: what made you LEOs and former LEOs decide to go this far beyond the kind of LEO qualification tests we typically see, and which even I can pass?

Just me, but...it's Fun!

 

[dojpros]

To parphrase my shooting mentor, Tom Givens-because most qualification tests are simply a sobriety test. If you are even 1/2 sober you should be able to pass easily. In many qual tests the times are fairly generous. The scoring areas are absolutely too generous relative to what would constitute a fight slowing hit.

In broad strokes, if I was running a qual, you would have to do so in the following manner

1. concealed and open from the gear you run/issued
2. no alibis for missed shots on a string or malfunctions.
3. a round off the target =0 for the whole qual.
4. while 15 yrds and out certainly seperates the wheat from the chaff, 80+% of the rounds fired would be from 7 and in.

KCPD's is a good start. IIRC, it goes something like this:

3 strings of fire ( 4 in 6 seconds, 3 in 5 seconds and 1 in 3 seconds) from the ready at 15 yrds (8)
1 string of fire from the 1, draw and fire six from rentention (6)
4 strings of fire from the 3 with 2 to body /1 to head moving to cover (12)

4 strings of fire (4 to the body) from the 5 to include a speed reload (16)
Target faces 3 times for 3 seconds, 2 seconds, 1 second, all remaining rounds ( 8)

You have to get your gun topped off as you go. The head is defined as bottom of nose to top of forehead, ear to ear.

http://www.letargets.com/content/mo-5vb-missouri-post-qualification-target-version-5b.asp

 

[OkieStubble]

To parphrase my shooting mentor, Tom Givens-because most qualification tests are simply a sobriety test. If you are even 1/2 sober you should be able to pass easily. In many qual tests the times are fairly generous. The scoring areas are absolutely too generous relative to what would constitute a fight slowing hit.

In broad strokes, if I was running a qual, you would have to do so in the following manner

1. concealed and open from the gear you run/issued
2. no alibis for missed shots on a string or malfunctions.
3. a round off the target =0 for the whole qual.
4. while 15 yrds and out certainly seperates the wheat from the chaff, 80+% of the rounds fired would be from 7 and in.

KCPD's is a good start. IIRC, it goes something like this:

3 strings of fire ( 4 in 6 seconds, 3 in 5 seconds and 1 in 3 seconds) from the ready at 15 yrds (8)
1 string of fire from the 1, draw and fire six from rentention (6)
4 strings of fire from the 3 with 2 to body /1 to head moving to cover (12)

4 strings of fire (4 to the body) from the 5 to include a speed reload (16)
Target faces 3 times for 3 seconds, 2 seconds, 1 second, all remaining rounds ( 8)

You have to get your gun topped off as you go. The head is defined as bottom of nose to top of forehead, ear to ear.

http://www.letargets.com/content/mo-5vb-missouri-post-qualification-target-version-5b.asp

You would fail 75% of police officers in this country.

 

[OkieStubble]

Just me, but...it's Fun!

+1

 

[nortac]

+1 It's fun.
Challenging instructors like Jeff Cooper, Tom Givens, John Farnam, James Yeager, Southnarc , Andy Stafford, etc., etc.
I wanted to shoot like an operator
It's fun
I don't want to be a victim
It's fun

 

[Jack19]

Subject for another thread, probably: what made you LEOs and former LEOs decide to go this far beyond the kind of LEO qualification tests we typically see, and which even I can pass?

What others have said, it's fun, and I wanted to stay alive. I started my LE career in Detroit. lol

Frankly, you can pass most of them; if not today, then with some practice.

I would also add, limit your practice on bull's eye paper targets. Shoot reactives and human form dummies. When it comes time, you don't want to hesitate because your new target is a person.

I love these guys; put shirts, hats, glasses on them.

 

[OkieStubble]

Are those guys expensive?

 

[nortac]

Are those guys expensive?

Not prohibitively expensive if used only on occasion. It's been a while since I bought any though. The ones I have are plastic shells, open in the back. They can take a large number of hits before they fall apart. They last a lot longer than the cover garment does! You can do all kinds of creative things with them. Combine them with a small pepper popper so that you have to hit the popper that you can't see in order for the bad guy to go down, balloons for vital organs, etc. Place them over traditional targets for scoring, shooter can't see his hits until after its over.

 

[OkieStubble]

Not prohibitively expensive if used only on occasion. It's been a while since I bought any though. The ones I have are plastic shells, open in the back. They can take a large number of hits before they fall apart. They last a lot longer than the cover garment does! You can do all kinds of creative things with them. Combine them with a small pepper popper so that you have to hit the popper that you can't see in order for the bad guy to go down, balloons for vital organs, etc. Place them over traditional targets for scoring, shooter can't see his hits until after its over.

Dunno how I missed this post. Have you trained with these dummies John? What did you think about them? The balloons is a great idea. I can't ever see even a large Admin approving these while paper & steel are so cheap though.

 

[nortac]

Dunno how I missed this post. Have you trained with these dummies John? What did you think about them? The balloons is a great idea. I can't ever see even a large Admin approving these while paper & steel are so cheap though.

I have used them in civilian competition and informal practice only, mostly the latter, but I consider that training to! I doubt they would get admin approval for regular use either. One way to use a balloon is to have it in the head suspending the target, so that it requires a head shot for the target to drop. They will take a large number of hits before they are unusable. I'm sure that there are creative ways to extend their usefulness, tape, paint and maybe spray on truck bed liner repair stuff in a can?

The biggest downside is possibly not being able to use them at public ranges and the time required to set them up, score, etc. Best use in on private land or small venue shoots where others don't mind the delays involved.

 

[nortac]

These are what I have used in the past, prices have gone up since then, but they are on sale now! I may have to buy some more Tactical Ted targets at this price!
http://speedwelltargets.com/index.p...id=466&zenid=cea79be6aba3cb1c5658f11bd5fd4306