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Gold Monkey that just won't get sharp

A little bit back I ordered a few Gold Dollar/Monkeys just to practice on, and of a group of three, two of them got shave ready pretty quick, and the third one I can barely slice paper with.
The process for each was the same; taped the spine, 3000gr water stone, then 8000, then a 10000 oil stone. While on the 3000 stone, I noticed one of them just wasn't slicing paper like the others, and gave it a little more time, and it made little difference. The same on the 8k and 10k. I took it through the whole process anyway, and in the end I got two that can tree-top all day and one that's basically a pocketknife.
Does anyone have any insight on why that may be?
 
I've had several Gold Monkeys/Dollars that I struggled to set the bevel, especially towards the heel and the toe. I've had to use the rolling X stroke and also add tape in some cases to allow all of the edge to touch the stone. Sometimes, I'll see the edge of the bevel a bit darker than the rest of the bevel, meaning that it's not touching the stone, and not getting sharp.
 
I've had several Gold Monkeys/Dollars that I struggled to set the bevel, especially towards the heel and the toe. I've had to use the rolling X stroke and also add tape in some cases to allow all of the edge to touch the stone. Sometimes, I'll see the edge of the bevel a bit darker than the rest of the bevel, meaning that it's not touching the stone, and not getting sharp.
Is it not standard to tape the spine whenever honing?
 

rbscebu

Girls call me Makaluod
Is it not standard to tape the spine whenever honing?
No, it is not standard.

Taping the spine is normally only done if there is a specific reason(s), like;
  • You have a lot of heavy honing to do and you want to protect the spine from excessive wear, in which case you would remove the tape as you neared the end of your heavy honing.
  • You want to achieve a more obtuse bevel angle.
  • You are trying to produce a compound bevel.
  • The bevel/edge was previously finished using a taped spine and you don't want to have to reset the bevel before refreshing the edge.
 
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Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
A little bit back I ordered a few Gold Dollar/Monkeys just to practice on, and of a group of three, two of them got shave ready pretty quick, and the third one I can barely slice paper with.
The process for each was the same; taped the spine, 3000gr water stone, then 8000, then a 10000 oil stone. While on the 3000 stone, I noticed one of them just wasn't slicing paper like the others, and gave it a little more time, and it made little difference. The same on the 8k and 10k. I took it through the whole process anyway, and in the end I got two that can tree-top all day and one that's basically a pocketknife.
Does anyone have any insight on why that may be?
First, on any of these razors, DO NOT TAPE THE SPINE. The bevel angle is already extremely obtuse and taping the spine prevents the spine from wearing proportionally to the edge. Plus the immediate effect is about a degree of extra bevel angle. Most razors have around a 16.5 to 17 degree bevel angle. Gold Dollars, and their poor cousins from the same factory with the Gold Monkey brand name, run over 18 degrees, sometimes approaching 19 degrees. Thats right near the upper limit for a good shave ready edge. You really don't want to make it even worse.


What brand are your stones? Do you have a bevel setter? The razors you are trying to hone sometimes are warped or twisted from the quench, and more often very poorly ground. Sometimes a lot of heavy lifting is required to batter these into shape.

Are you sure your bevel was properly set? If so, why are you sure? Never waste your time moving up in grit until you are positive that you have a good bevel. You can't just guess, or estimate that you spent enough hours or enough laps for it to be done. Doesn't work that way.

A properly set bevel on a razor should cut as good as a very sharp pocketknife. It should shave forearm hair effortlessly. It should stick fiercely when you do the thumbnail test. When you roll the razor edge-up under a very bright light, with magnification such as the excellent and very popular Belomo 10x Triplet, you should see that the bevel is flat and smooth out to the edge, and with the edge turned straight up you should not be able to see it, and see absolutely no little sparkles as you roll the razor. If you don't want to use the burr method, you need to be very clear on how to determine if your bevel is set.

in spite of their checkered reputation gained mostly from know-it-alls judging them by their price and obvious lack of fit and finish and QC, the steel itself and the heat treating is actually not bad at all. I have honed literally hundreds of GDs and GMs, and it is rare that I find one that simply can't be honed and made to shave quite well. In fact I can't remember ever having one that I couldn't hone except for some few with cracks or splits. Not saying it can't happen, but it is rare.

It is extremely likely that you will have to reprofile the heel.

What method are you using for lapping your stones?

I think you really ought to get yourself a 600 grit Chosera, and maybe a 1k Naniwa Superstone, a sharpie marker, a very bright work light, and a Belomo 10x loupe, and set that bevel. Everything depends on, and begins with, the bevel. Without a good bevel, you won't have a good edge.

Are you experienced at shaving with straight razors?

Newbie Honing Compendium | Badger & Blade
The above linked thread has several other threads linked within. All together they form a honing style we call "The Method". it was created as a way to give a total beginner to razor honing, a fighting chance at creating a better than professional edge on his first attempt, while keeping costs minimal. It is not a learning system. It is a DOING system. As such, one must be prepared to carry out all instructions exactly, with zero omission, addition, or substitution. If you can do that, you can put an amazing edge on your GM.
 
Take a Magic Marker or Sharpie and run it down the edge of the razor leaving ink on the edge. Then take the blade to your hone. If the hone is touching the blade all the way to the apex, the ink will soon disappear on both side of the blade. If you are not removing the ink, you will never get the blade sharp. Try adding one or more layers of tape to the spine of the razor to increase the honing angle. That should help.

Some Gold Dollar/Gold Monkey razors might not be properly ground or might be warped making sharpening exceedingly difficult. Workmanship on these razors is commensurate with the low price.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
I have a cigar box about half cull of these. If you’re in the US and want to send it to me, I’ll check it out and if there’s nothing too wrong with it, I’ll hone it for yoh and tell you how to hone it. Once inawhile, you’ll get one that’s just too my\uch teouble to hone, and some of them are not easy.
 
Thanks for the replies.
I am often slow to respond so I can take time to read and digest the information, and follow the links and read that too.
 
I your buying these junk razors to practice honing then you get what you pay for. Pic up a couple American Made razors from pre-war era. You can find them for 20 to 30 bucks. Quality razors for practicing with that wont beeak the bank.
 
What brand are your stones? Do you have a bevel setter? The razors you are trying to hone sometimes are warped or twisted from the quench, and more often very poorly ground. Sometimes a lot of heavy lifting is required to batter these into shape.

Are you sure your bevel was properly set? If so, why are you sure? Never waste your time moving up in grit until you are positive that you have a good bevel. You can't just guess, or estimate that you spent enough hours or enough laps for it to be done. Doesn't work that way.


What method are you using for lapping your stones?


Are you experienced at shaving with straight razors?
My stones are cheap nonames. One was a set of stones with a 400/1000 and 3000/8000 and a strop, ChromOx, and some other stuff for about $40, and another is a "jadestone" for a little bit less than that. I have a thing that I do with all stuff and that's get the cheap junk and use it until it falls apart, find out why it falls apart, and select the next one based upon what the previous ones failed at. I've done it with a lot of my little hobbies and it works for how my brain is wired. I learn by making mistakes and breaking stuff.
My objective with these is to take three of the same things, do the same thing to all of them, and try to figure out why they aren't ending up the same.

I do not have a bevel setter. I am not sure the bevel was properly set.

I have not lapped the stones, yet. The set came with a flattening stone, which I am yet to use.
I have not used them a lot, perhaps 10-15 sharpenings.

I have some experience at shaving with straight razors, but not a lot, perhaps 30 or 40 shaves. Which is more than I have on the normal disposable razor types; I have thick, rough, fast growing facial hair and shaving has always sucked for me, so I used an electric when I wasn't just letting it grow, but I don't like the beard. I hate shaving so much that I had to turn to straights to get me interested in the process at all, and it has worked.
 

Steve56

Ask me about shaving naked!
A properly honed straight razor will take care of that thick, rough, hair in short order.
 
In what general area do you live? Chances are that someone lives close enough to give you a one on one honing lesson. Most Gold Dollar/ Gold Monkey razors are too obtuse from the factory, tape makes this worse. 600 grit W/D paper on a flat surface will serve as a short term bevel setter if cost is an issue, though this is an expensive way to buy abrasives in the long term.
 
In what general area do you live? Chances are that someone lives close enough to give you a one on one honing lesson. Most Gold Dollar/ Gold Monkey razors are too obtuse from the factory, tape makes this worse. 600 grit W/D paper on a flat surface will serve as a short term bevel setter if cost is an issue, though this is an expensive way to buy abrasives in the long term.
Yakima Valley, central Washington State, USA.
I'd be happy to do so, it any are around.
 
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