Go Hard or Go Soft

[Mouette]

Still struggling away trying to master straight shaving and just hit the latest hurdle which seems to be stropping. At the moment I am only getting one shave out of a razor before the edge is stuffed. Originally, it was poor honing, but after having a couple of professionally honed razors by well known honers, I am pretty sure that the culprit is my stropping technique.

The first shave seems to go ok although my technique there isn't the best with only 15 shaves under my belt. I basically do the shave and then strop before the next one, which I get the first pass done WTG and then that's pretty much it. The razor won't go against the grain or across the grain. It just won't move through the whiskers and I end up finishing with a DE. I can't for the life of me work out what's going on, but have come to the conclusion that I am somehow ruining the edge with my stropping.

The strop I am using I got on-line from an Australian Shaving supplier - see the picture. I guess it's OK. I have watched a lot of stropping videos and trawled through the forums but still no idea of what I am doing wrong. Do I put pressure on the blade on when stropping, or go light. I have tried both but it doesn't seem to make a difference. In B&B, people seem to favour either heavy or light. I concentrate on turning the right way on the spine, go slow, small strokes etc etc. But am fast running out of ideas, and have run out of razors. Once the edge is buggered, I don't have the honing skills to get it back - I have yet to master the black art of honing, I have tried with the 12 k Shapton to refresh the edge but once it's gone it's gone.

Stropping seems quite simple - just run the blade up and down and the videos make it look easy. However, no one really explains what they are doing - just running the blade on the stop at a great rate of knots. It's hard to see how I am ruining the edge, but that appears to be what is happening.

Am I alone in this? Or is this a fairly common experience for those starting out.

cheers
Andrew

 

[rbscebu]

Assuming that your SR is of reasonably good steel and was honed to shave ready, there are two things that can quickly full the edge; curling the edge while stropping or shaving with the blade at too great an angle to your skin.

It's not easy to curl the edge. To do so, you need to be holding your strop too loose and/or applying too much pressure to the blade while stropping. When stropping, there should be almost no "give" in the strop. Hold the strop tight and strop with just light pressure. The spine and edge must be in contact with the strop at all times, except when turning.

Shaving with too great an angle is a common problem with those starting out. I also had that same problem. Pay close attention to the angle your blade makes with your skin. Don't believe that 30deg thing mentioned in a lot of how-to SR videos. Shave with the spine of your razor only about a spine thickness or less above your skin.

Once you have a good technique with stropping and shaving, you should get 50 to 100 or more shaves out of one razor before it should need to touch a whetstone again.

 

[Seveneighth]

How are you stropping? Can you describe what you are doing in more detail?

I would suggest laying it on a flat surface to begin with whilst you are learning. It takes some of the variables out of it.

This is the best stropping video:

BTW My personal opinion is that the Shapton 12k isn't a great refresh hone. Remember the Shapton grit ratings are non standard. You need the 16k Shap or the 12k Nani but you would save yourself a lot of heartache initially by using lapping film.

 

[Seveneighth]

In terms of pressure. It's a subtle art. I am from the European school of aggressive stropping. But don't be fooled when you see us aggressive stroppers. It is NOT about pressure it's about contact. The friction / "aggression" is about the motion of the edge against the strop not pushing down. You can achieve this by improving the tooth on your strop and stropping into that. What an EARTH does that mean? Well the technique is EXACTLY the same as the video above but as you move the razor along the leather you feel the edge against it. Only way I can explain it. Its the gliding contact not a downwards pressure.

I can't comment on your strop. A lot of the cheaper strops take a while to break in. In the past I have abused my strops something chronic but I am quite chastened reading the posts by strop lovers here. However I have frequently needed to improve a strop with 1k grit wet n dry and Neetsfoot. I don't advise this for you yet.

Instead way round this is to strop on newspaper. It's a really good medium when you are learning. I would recommend trying it in addition to your leather strop.

 

[Alum of Potash]

In starting out, I found that how the shank is gripped during the flip made a difference. At first, and in following some videos, I was using what I call a pencil-roll flip, sort of spinning the shank with my fingers with my wrist remaining unmoved. This also coincided with my gripping the shank from top to bottom with the pass. The result was that I was not truly in control of the blade, resulting in varying contact of the blade with the strop and mysterious nicks.

Later, I had some communication with an older, experienced straight-razor user, who encouraged me to grip the shank more from side to side (not literally, more of a cross between top to bottom and side to side) along with a slight turn of the wrist during the flip. This made all the difference. No more mysterious nicks and the blade's edge was effectively stropped.

Slight amount of pressure is applied along with there being a slight slackening of the strop during the process. What this "slight" is perhaps depends on the person, the strop, and the razor combination. It is not conscious, more what seems comfortable or to work from practice. In other words, the strop is not pulled fully taut and the blade is not passed entirely without pressure.

 

[RenoRichard]

Hey Andrew! Don't give up. Straight razor shaving does have a learning curve. First, check your razor(s) to make sure they're adequate tools. What razor(s) do you have? You can post pics, if you want some feedback on what you have. If they're reasonable razors, the edge should last for a while- surely not one shave. How are you drying your razor? If you are not careful about that, you can damage the edge.

If your razor is laid flat on the strop when you're stropping, it's possible but somewhat difficult to kill an edge. I strop after each shave and before the next one. I clean my razor, carefully dry with a towel, by drawing the razor like I'm stropping gently across the towel, then strop. Stropping after a shave lets me know the edge is both dry and clean. You may use newspaper as suggested, or even lay your strop on a hard surface, e.g. a table or a countertop, and use only the portion laying flat to eliminate the slack in the strop variable. Go slowly and carefully until you have mastered a good technique. A leather strop helps maintain an edge, but can't really bring one back. BTW your strop as pictured looks adequate.

A properly honed razor's edge is very thin, and may be damaged by poor technique. As noted above, mashing an edge, or using at too high an angle can indeed shorten the life of the edge.

I haven't used a Shapton 12K. I mostly use natural stones to finish. But, I have brought a razor back on many synthetic stones with differing levels of success. I would think that a Shapton 12K should be at least as fine as a better barber's hone, and those work okay, if not really well. So, I think you should be able to get the edge back unless it's really been damaged with the stone you have. I've also just stropped on a hone to revive an edge. Maybe a Shapton person will chime in for you. Do you have a small microscope to look at your edge? I add a touch of dish liquid to the water on the hone to improve the slickness and essentially increase the effective grit of the stone. Lather also works well.

Cheers, Richard

 

[ajduplessis]

IME it takes a lot of deliberate effort to ruin an edge on a strop, but that does not mean its not possible. I also believe that an edge cant be over-stropped. I am in the camp of firm stropping action, not sure aggressive is the right word.

Strop before and after each shave. In this regard 70-100 laps should suffice. 20 on the suede back and 80 of the smooth leather side. The last 15-20 on the smooth leather can be of a lighter touch.

Like shaving, stropping is a learning curve and you will get better as time go on. What is concerning is that your edge falls away after a single shave and this should not be the case with a shave ready razor. Your stropping might not be the problem...

 

[DrStrange]

Currently, and this is the kind of thing that changes from time to time,
I do the same stropping before and after every shave.

I do 25 laps
(and I think the word "lapping" is conflated on shaving forums,
from what it means in racing and lapidary work,
but that's the way people talk here )
with 0.3 micron crox on felt and that number varies with how hard
I think the steel is, then 25 laps on latigo to clean of any residual crox,
then 25 laps on the fire hose part of a Koken stop
and then back to the latigo.

The razors seem to be getting sharper and smoother
with each shave. I use the hanging hair test primarily
to determine if the last thing I did to the edge made it
duller or sharper. I have a bag of straight head hair from an
11 year blond girl, that's what I use.

Anyway, getting back today the original question,
I attached my strops to a doorknob and I pull them
very tight when I use them.
The pressure that I use is so light
that except for the final result being very good,
I wouldn't believe that anything was happening.

 

[alla2465]

I find it hard to "describe" the pressure etc.
This might not be a sexy answer, but the only way to get the right "feel" when stropping is to continue to do it and pay a lot of attention.
Go slow, take notes after each session (at least mental notes) of how it felt, how much pressure, how did it affect the shave?
Eventuallly you will just get it, I struggled for a bit, but once I got that "feel" it became easy.
You will get it eventually.

 

[KrstGor]

I have a bag of straight head hair from an
11 year blond girl...

I'm sure (well actually I'm not so sure) you meant it to sound that way, but man... it sounds so creepy.

 

[DrStrange]

I'm sure (well actually I'm not so sure) you meant it to sound that way, but man... it sounds so creepy.

I didn't mean it to seem that way, but later in the day I realized ...
it's about to get creepier.

Anyway, it's 80 microns in diameter while my own grey hairs are 100.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Still struggling away trying to master straight shaving and just hit the latest hurdle which seems to be stropping. At the moment I am only getting one shave out of a razor before the edge is stuffed. Originally, it was poor honing, but after having a couple of professionally honed razors by well known honers, I am pretty sure that the culprit is my stropping technique.

The first shave seems to go ok although my technique there isn't the best with only 15 shaves under my belt. I basically do the shave and then strop before the next one, which I get the first pass done WTG and then that's pretty much it. The razor won't go against the grain or across the grain. It just won't move through the whiskers and I end up finishing with a DE. I can't for the life of me work out what's going on, but have come to the conclusion that I am somehow ruining the edge with my stropping.

View attachment 1117481
The strop I am using I got on-line from an Australian Shaving supplier - see the picture. I guess it's OK. I have watched a lot of stropping videos and trawled through the forums but still no idea of what I am doing wrong. Do I put pressure on the blade on when stropping, or go light. I have tried both but it doesn't seem to make a difference. In B&B, people seem to favour either heavy or light. I concentrate on turning the right way on the spine, go slow, small strokes etc etc. But am fast running out of ideas, and have run out of razors. Once the edge is buggered, I don't have the honing skills to get it back - I have yet to master the black art of honing, I have tried with the 12 k Shapton to refresh the edge but once it's gone it's gone.

Stropping seems quite simple - just run the blade up and down and the videos make it look easy. However, no one really explains what they are doing - just running the blade on the stop at a great rate of knots. It's hard to see how I am ruining the edge, but that appears to be what is happening.

Am I alone in this? Or is this a fairly common experience for those starting out.

cheers
Andrew

Two words. The Method. AKA "Newbie Honing Compendium". After every shave 50 laps on a PROPERLY set up and used balsa strop with .1u diamond paste will keep your edge sharp. Initially you will first go .5u and then .25u before the .1u but thereafter just the .1u

Your shave technique is almost as critical as stropping technique. Shave, don't scrape. Keep that shave angle tight. Also there is the razor itself. Occasionally you will get hold of a razor that simply does not keep an edge very long.

 

[DrStrange]

Two words. The Method. AKA "Newbie Honing Compendium". After every shave 50 laps on a PROPERLY set up and used balsa strop with .1u diamond paste will keep your edge sharp. Initially you will first go .5u and then .25u before the .1u but thereafter just the .1u

Your shave technique is almost as critical as stropping technique. Shave, don't scrape. Keep that shave angle tight. Also there is the razor itself. Occasionally you will get hold of a razor that simply does not keep an edge very long.

Do you ever find that every once in a while
the razor seems sharper than the last time that you used it?

 

[Slash McCoy]

Do you ever find that every once in a while
the razor seems sharper than the last time that you used it?

Of course. Often the .1u balsa continues to improve the edge and not simply maintain it.