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never-stop-learning

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You may be "one in a million" but somewhere in the world there will be other like you.

Not saying that I am "one of a kind" - far from it. Just a phrase I use for anything that is preference based - shaving, audio, things like that. :)

In my opinion we can approximate a reviewer's preferences and biases from items that the reviewer and the reader have both used and attempt to extrapolate that experience to potential purchases.

Sometimes it works.

Sometimes it doesn't.

Hence my lack of reliance on reviews in favor of direct experience.

YMMV :)
 
Not saying that I am "one of a kind" - far from it. Just a phrase I use for anything that is preference based - shaving, audio, things like that. :)

In my opinion we can approximate a reviewer's preferences and biases from items that the reviewer and the reader have both used and attempt to extrapolate that experience to potential purchases.

Sometimes it works.

Sometimes it doesn't.

Hence my lack of reliance on reviews in favor of direct experience.

YMMV :)

I do understand. On the bell curve of shaving preferences, I am somewhere out on one end or the other of that curve. I am not among the 95% of shavers who are have more typical preferences. However, even at that, I have found some others whose reviews I can rely on in making purchasing decisions.

In selecting soaps, I have found that Jason Rudman of Ruds Shaves tends to value the same things I do in a soap. I am not sure his skin is quite as sensitive as mine, but if I purchase a soap he rates highly, I am likely to rate it highly as well. However, from time to time, we do disagree.

In selecting DE razor blades, I find that the combination of objective and subjective data provided by the Refined Shave web site have been quite useful. The author seems to have a preference for very sharp, yet smooth blades. I tend to like the blades he likes and dislike the blades he dislikes. Unfortunately, he stopped evaluating blades some time ago, so data are unavailable for some blades. A lot of people love Astra SP blades, but like the Refined Shave author, I do not find them to be sharp enough for my beard.
 

never-stop-learning

Demoted To Moderator
Staff member
I do understand. On the bell curve of shaving preferences, I am somewhere out on one end or the other of that curve. I am not among the 95% of shavers who are have more typical preferences. However, even at that, I have found some others whose reviews I can rely on in making purchasing decisions.

In selecting soaps, I have found that Jason Rudman of Ruds Shaves tends to value the same things I do in a soap. I am not sure his skin is quite as sensitive as mine, but if I purchase a soap he rates highly, I am likely to rate it highly as well. However, from time to time, we do disagree.

In selecting DE razor blades, I find that the combination of objective and subjective data provided by the Refined Shave web site have been quite useful. The author seems to have a preference for very sharp, yet smooth blades. I tend to like the blades he likes and dislike the blades he dislikes. Unfortunately, he stopped evaluating blades some time ago, so data are unavailable for some blades. A lot of people love Astra SP blades, but like the Refined Shave author, I do not find them to be sharp enough for my beard.

You hit the nail on the head. The trick really is each shaver doing the research to find the reviewers who have similar requirements and biases as that shaver. :)
 
You hit the nail on the head. The trick really is each shaver doing the research to find the reviewers who have similar requirements and biases as that shaver. :)
Sounds good, but then the guy comes out of left field and says something like "These BIC Chromes are the worst blades I've ever used in my life. They tug and pull." or "The PolSilver blades are about the same level of sharpness as Derby Extras and only last two shaves". I was also surprised he thinks my favorite soap is a "third-tier, C+, with mediocre post-shave feel." YMMV strikes again.
:confused1 :lol1:
 

never-stop-learning

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Staff member
Sounds good, but then the guy comes out of left field and says something like "These BIC Chromes are the worst blades I've ever used in my life. They tug and pull." or "The PolSilver blades are about the same level of sharpness as Derby Extras and only last two shaves". I was also surprised he thinks my favorite soap is a "third-tier, C+, with mediocre post-shave feel." YMMV strikes again.
:confused1 :lol1:

Very true. :)

In my opinion, there is a natural tendency to like reviewers who agree with us and dislike them when they don't. ;)
 
Could be.

Could also be that we are looking for someone to validate our opinions and decisions. ;)

YMMV :)

Also a possibility. But if I'm thinking, for example, about buying a blade I'm not familiar with, I'm going to place more value on the opinions of someone whose experience have mirrored mine than someone who's consistently disagreed with me. I have to assume in that case, that they have beard, skin, ant topography similar to mine.

As you say, YKMV. But I'm looking for a predictor of successful outcome for me, not for you.
 

never-stop-learning

Demoted To Moderator
Staff member
Also a possibility. But if I'm thinking, for example, about buying a blade I'm not familiar with, I'm going to place more value on the opinions of someone whose experience have mirrored mine than someone who's consistently disagreed with me. I have to assume in that case, that they have beard, skin, ant topography similar to mine.

As you say, YKMV. But I'm looking for a predictor of successful outcome for me, not for you.
I put very little credence at all in reviews.

If I want to see how a blade works, in my preferred razors and on my face, I buy a few and try them out.

Same with razors, brushes, soaps/creams, aftershaves and colognes.

So, as you say, it really does not make much difference if a reviewer really likes something. The only way I will know, for sure, is to try it myself.

If you are able to zero in on reviewers that seem to like the same things as you do, that's great. The process you use has to work for you and only you.

As always, YMMV :)
 
I put very little credence at all in reviews.

If I want to see how a blade works, in my preferred razors and on my face, I buy a few and try them out.

Same with razors, brushes, soaps/creams, aftershaves and colognes.

So, as you say, it really does not make much difference if a reviewer really likes something. The only way I will know, for sure, is to try it myself.

If you are able to zero in on reviewers that seem to like the same things as you do, that's great. The process you use has to work for you and only you.

As always, YMMV :)


Because of the cost of some items, you cannot always afford to purchase everything you might want to try, unless you are independently wealthy. If we want to try razor blades, most of us can afford to purchase a sample pack with a dozen or more varieties. All is well and good.

However, if you want to purchase a more expensive item like a CNC machine razor, few of us can afford to purchase one of every offering out there, just to see which we like best. Thus, we have to rely on the opinions of others in narrowing down our choices to a few we can afford.

The same thing goes with soaps and fragrances. There are well over 1000 soaps and creams available for sale. If we were to purchase one of each for evaluation, the cost would exceed $15,000. Few of us would spend that much on soaps, or have the space to store them. We rely on reviews by others to determine which are worthy of our funds.

When you purchase an automobile, have you ever looked at reviews of the vehicles before deciding which to buy? I guess the alternative would be to rent 50 different vehicles to see which you like best.
 

never-stop-learning

Demoted To Moderator
Staff member
Because of the cost of some items, you cannot always afford to purchase everything you might want to try, unless you are independently wealthy. If we want to try razor blades, most of us can afford to purchase a sample pack with a dozen or more varieties. All is well and good.

Blades are the easiest to "try before you buy" for this reason.

However, if you want to purchase a more expensive item like a CNC machine razor, few of us can afford to purchase one of every offering out there, just to see which we like best. Thus, we have to rely on the opinions of others in narrowing down our choices to a few we can afford.

How do you know what you like unless you've experienced it?

There are mild razors, aggressive razors, new razors, vintage razors, open comb, non-open comb (giving @Cal a nod here ;)), stainless, aluminum, titanium.

How do you know which reviewers to follow if you haven't experienced at least a sample from each category to be able to clearly define YOUR needs.

The only way I know to do this is to try different things for myself.

Luckily, through B-S-T and other used 'for sale' resources, it is very possible to try different types of razors, see if you like them and sell them if you don't.

The same thing goes with soaps and fragrances. There are well over 1000 soaps and creams available for sale. If we were to purchase one of each for evaluation, the cost would exceed $15,000. Few of us would spend that much on soaps, or have the space to store them. We rely on reviews by others to determine which are worthy of our funds.

Fragrances are the most personal of all. Can you be sure that, even if you like one scent the reviewer likes, that you will like another? No, because your body chemistry won't be identical.

My taste in food is really eclectic. I share Italian food with certain friends who won't set foot in an Indian restaurant. If I extrapolate your assertion to food, I would never have tried Indian food based on the 'review' from my friend. Hey, if we both like Italian food and he doesn't like Indian food, that means I won't like Indian food?

Of course not. By the way, Indian cuisine is one of my favorite cuisines. As is Italian. ;)

My advice here is to try samples, go to B&M stores that have good selections, etc. and see for yourself what you like.

When you purchase an automobile, have you ever looked at reviews of the vehicles before deciding which to buy? I guess the alternative would be to rent 50 different vehicles to see which you like best.

When I purchase a car, I pretty much know what I need from that particular vehicle. If I need a basic commuter vehicle, I can probably scratch one-ton trucks from my list. ;)

Then I will rent a few, do additional test drives, have my mechanic look at the candidates and ask if he sees a lot of this particular make/model.

This method works fine for me over a 50 year period of buying cars, both new and used.

I really don't care what some writer from 'Road and Track' says about a particular vehicle, I keep my own counsel in these matters. ;)

My 'personal experience' method works for me just fine. If others rely on reviewers to help make their decisions, that's their decision. I have no issue with how each individual decides to spend their own money.

Just my opinion and YMMV. :)
 
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Reviews will always be subjective to the user, whether on B&B or on YouTube. Not much to look at on B&B if people didn’t do reviews.

I’m less likely to pay attention to a review on B&B, good or bad if the member only has a few posts or joined last week. Not that they don’t have an opinion, just my thing. If someone reviews and loves only say, WEISHI razors on YouTube, I’m also less likely to pay attention.
 

never-stop-learning

Demoted To Moderator
Staff member
Reviews will always be subjective to the user, whether on B&B or on YouTube. Not much to look at on B&B if people didn’t do reviews.

I’m less likely to pay attention to a review on B&B, good or bad if the member only has a few posts or joined last week. Not that they don’t have an opinion, just my thing. If someone reviews and loves only say, WEISHI razors on YouTube, I’m also less likely to pay attention.

Great points.

Questions: How do you know whether or not to agree with a reviewer if you have not defined your needs, defined what is important to you, and calibrated your needs and requirements to the reviewer's? What steps do you take to define your points of reference?
 
Great points.

Questions: How do you know whether or not to agree with a reviewer if you have not defined your needs, defined what is important to you, and calibrated your needs and requirements to the reviewer's? What steps do you take to define your points of reference?

My needs are pretty simple. The main things that are important to me are the builder, materials used for build, style, finish and both gap and exposure as both are important. Smoothness is sometimes subjective based on experience but I pay more attention to reviews of others I have followed for years as I know those persons have built up solid technique.

I still listen to yet other reviewers with similar experience but just zone in on reviews of persons that I know have similar ideas of what they want in a shave.

I feel it is harder for those whom have not established solid technique and or have limited experience to adequately judge the efficiency of a razor but I feel they can adequately judge materials, style and finish just fine. We can certainly learn from them also. Just saw a post from a newbie about his first ever shave with a DE using the R41. Very interesting to say the least and the result was expected. Experienced persons chimed in to offer tips to help. This site can’t just be about us, we all started out like him and those threads are very important and his experience is equally important, but at the same time, his experience is going to be much different than someone with established technique.
 

never-stop-learning

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Staff member
My needs are pretty simple. The main things that are important to me are the builder, materials used for build, style, finish and both gap and exposure as both are important. Smoothness is sometimes subjective based on experience but I pay more attention to reviews of others I have followed for years as I know those persons have built up solid technique.

I still listen to yet other reviewers with similar experience but just zone in on reviews of persons that I know have similar ideas of what they want in a shave.

I feel it is harder for those whom have not established solid technique and or have limited experience to adequately judge the efficiency of a razor but I feel they can adequately judge materials, style and finish just fine. We can certainly learn from them also. Just saw a post from a newbie about his first ever shave with a DE using the R41. Very interesting to say the least and the result was expected. Experienced persons chimed in to offer tips to help. This site can’t just be about us, we all started out like him and those threads are very important and his experience is equally important, but at the same time, his experience is going to be much different than someone with established technique.

This is exactly correct!

An extremely salient point by @THall - "I feel it is harder for those whom have not established solid technique and or have limited experience to adequately judge the efficiency of a razor but I feel they can adequately judge materials, style and finish just fine. We can certainly learn from them also. Just saw a post from a newbie about his first ever shave with a DE using the R41. Very interesting to say the least and the result was expected. Experienced persons chimed in to offer tips to help. This site can’t just be about us, we all started out like him and those threads are very important and his experience is equally important, but at the same time, his experience is going to be much different than someone with established technique."

How do we best help new B&B members, new shaving enthusiasts, develop their own criteria (beyond how a razor looks)?
 

never-stop-learning

Demoted To Moderator
Staff member
@RayClem @THall - I am not saying that reviewers play no role, just posing the question: How does someone know which reviewers to follow if they haven't zeroed in on their own specific criteria - wants and needs - for particular product types? If you have no experience, how do you get the experience without actually buying and trying?

One area where I do pay attention to reviewers is movies: If the critics really like a particular movie, I will usually avoid it. ;) 🤣
 
This is exactly correct!

An extremely salient point by @THall - "I feel it is harder for those whom have not established solid technique and or have limited experience to adequately judge the efficiency of a razor but I feel they can adequately judge materials, style and finish just fine. We can certainly learn from them also. Just saw a post from a newbie about his first ever shave with a DE using the R41. Very interesting to say the least and the result was expected. Experienced persons chimed in to offer tips to help. This site can’t just be about us, we all started out like him and those threads are very important and his experience is equally important, but at the same time, his experience is going to be much different than someone with established technique."

How do we best help new B&B members, new shaving enthusiasts, develop their own criteria (beyond how a razor looks)?

Ultimately, just like choosing a mate, the new shaver is going to automatically want the most attractive option. They may also think they need an aggressive razor that may not be right for them. They may not understand how important proper prep is to having a good shave. They may feel they need to spend a lot of money to get a good razor. I was a lurker here for many years before I became a member. I think we really underestimate how many people lurk and never join. For example, I decided to buy my first DE, the EJ DE89 based on reading reviews here regarding recommended first razors as only a lurker. I then watched Geofatboy videos to learn how to initially shave with a DE.

I did not join up until years later when my father passed and went on the search to properly identify and purchase the DE razors he previously owned. He owned a late fifties Super Speed and a 195. All I had were faint memories from the 1970s and my older brother to figure it out before joining here. The razors were gone long before he passed and he was actually surprised that DE blades were still around when I started DE shaving with the EJ.
 

never-stop-learning

Demoted To Moderator
Staff member
Ultimately, just like choosing a mate, the new shaver is going to automatically want the most attractive option. They may also think they need an aggressive razor that may not be right for them. They may not understand how important proper prep is to having a good shave. They may feel they need to spend a lot of money to get a good razor. I was a lurker here for many years before I became a member. I think we really underestimate how many people lurk and never join. For example, I decided to buy my first DE, the EJ DE89 based on reading reviews here regarding recommended first razors as only a lurker. I then watched Geofatboy videos to learn how to initially shave with a DE.

I did not join up until years later when my father passed and went on the search to properly identify and purchase the DE razors he previously owned. He owned a late fifties Super Speed and a 195. All I had were faint memories from the 1970s and my older brother to figure it out before joining here. The razors were gone long before he passed and he was actually surprised that DE blades were still around when I started DE shaving with the EJ.

Thank you for sharing the story about your Dad.

When I got away from multi-blade razors and canned soap and back into traditional shaving, the one thing I knew for sure is that I knew nothing about the current state of traditional shaving or what I should buy. I remember what my Dad used, and what I used when I learned from him, back in the mid/late-1960s and through the early-1970s when I was infected with a severe case of 'Hippie-itis' and grew a beard.

Fast forward to 1990 when the beard came off and I experimented with a variety of multi-blade cartridge razors. Also electric razors. The only one I kept is the twin-blade Gillette Atra my late father-in-law gave me for Christmas 1987 - three years before I shaved off my beard. He never did like my beard. ;)

After 23 years of general dissatisfaction, I took the plunge in 2013 and bought a Merkur Progress, Frank Synthetic brush, Proraso Green and some blades (Astra, I think - or maybe they were Derby?). Off to the races. :)

Discovered that, bravado aside, I like the Progress on milder settings. Also was never 100% satisfied with the Merkur but had a hard time zeroing in because I did not have a frame of reference. Used this kit ~6 times/week from 2013 until, in 2019, I happened upon B&B. :)

Now bear in mind that I wasted lots of money on audio gear since the 1960s buying what the reviewers said was the 'latest and greatest' stuff - only to find much of it did not meet MY requirements. So I approached razors with the thought of trying samples of different designs and aggressiveness until I zeroed in on the set of requirements that best suits me.

Heck, without the years using the Progress, I very possibly would have ended up with the EJ DE89 as my 'starter' razor. ;)
 
Thank you for sharing the story about your Dad.

When I got away from multi-blade razors and canned soap and back into traditional shaving, the one thing I knew for sure is that I knew nothing about the current state of traditional shaving or what I should buy. I remember what my Dad used, and what I used when I learned from him, back in the mid/late-1960s and through the early-1970s when I was infected with a severe case of 'Hippie-itis' and grew a beard.

Fast forward to 1990 when the beard came off and I experimented with a variety of multi-blade cartridge razors. Also electric razors. The only one I kept is the twin-blade Gillette Atra my late father-in-law gave me for Christmas 1987 - three years before I shaved off my beard. He never did like my beard. ;)

After 23 years of general dissatisfaction, I took the plunge in 2013 and bought a Merkur Progress, Frank Synthetic brush, Proraso Green and some blades (Astra, I think - or maybe they were Derby?). Off to the races. :)

Discovered that, bravado aside, I like the Progress on milder settings. Also was never 100% satisfied with the Merkur but had a hard time zeroing in because I did not have a frame of reference. Used this kit ~6 times/week from 2013 until, in 2019, I happened upon B&B. :)

Now bear in mind that I wasted lots of money on audio gear since the 1960s buying what the reviewers said was the 'latest and greatest' stuff - only to find much of it did not meet MY requirements. So I approached razors with the thought of trying samples of different designs and aggressiveness until I zeroed in on the set of requirements that best suits me.

Heck, without the years using the Progress, I very possibly would have ended up with the EJ DE89 as my 'starter' razor. ;)

After DE started disappearing from stores in the 80s, my father went with Norelco and stayed with them the rest of his life. He thought carts were a rip-off. In 1987, when I started shaving, my father got me a Norelco for Christmas. The Norelco caused a lot of irritation on my neck. He got me an oil to apply to my skin prior but that didn’t help at all. After 2 months, got an Atra and stayed with carts until 10 years ago. I still have the Norelco and have used it quite a bit recently to trim around my ears, the back of my neck and that hair coming out of my ears. I still have my 1987 Atra and up until recently, it was my travel razor until my wife claimed it.
 

never-stop-learning

Demoted To Moderator
Staff member
After DE started disappearing from stores in the 80s, my father went with Norelco and stayed with them the rest of his life. He thought carts were a rip-off. In 1987, when I started shaving, my father got me a Norelco for Christmas. The Norelco caused a lot of irritation on my neck. He got me an oil to apply to my skin prior but that didn’t help at all. After 2 months, got an Atra and stayed with carts until 10 years ago. I still have the Norelco and have used it quite a bit recently to trim around my ears, the back of my neck and that hair coming out of my ears. I still have my 1987 Atra and up until recently, it was my travel razor until my wife claimed it.

The Atra is actually a pretty good razor, when used with good soap/cream and a brush.

The Atra my late father-in-law gave me for Christmas, 1987 still has a place of pride in my Den. That was his last Christmas with us.
 
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