Gillette Serial Number Anomaly - Dating issue

[mmcbride56]

Hellp, this is my first post on B&B and thought I might open a general discussion on Gillette Dating anomalies. I recently found a fairly un-remarkable single-ring silver plated Gillete razor from the early 1900's. The odd thing is that the serial number on the inner barrel - 291443 - dates the razor to 1905, which should indicate a double-ring original since single rings came about in mid-1906. I tried to rationalize that the first digit was not a 2 but an 8, which, if true would slip it into 1907. Unfortunatly, upon very close examination with a magnifying glass, the 2, is in fact a 2. I can't imagine that an inner barrel double-ring handle would have been mated to a single-ring razor outer by the manufacturer. My guess is that someone pieced together a couble of razor parts...what say you?

Ok, so I apologize that my camara does not take quality close-ups so the serial number image is not the greatest, but the I am confident that the first digit is a '2'...

 

[alex2363]

Welcome to the B&B, most likely your theory is true.................and 2nd you wanna know why we are mad at you?

 

[Comfortably_Numb]

You gotta show pics, McBride or it never happened.

 

[amishmotorboat]

The single ring was introduced in 1905.

 

[GreekGuy]

Hellp, this is my first post on B&B and thought I might open a general discussion on Gillette Dating anomalies. I recently found a fairly un-remarkable single-ring silver plated Gillete razor from the early 1900's. The odd thing is that the serial number on the inner barrel - 291443 - dates the razor to 1905, which should indicate a double-ring original since single rings came about in mid-1906. I tried to rationalize that the first digit was not a 2 but an 8, which, if true would slip it into 1907. Unfortunatly, upon very close examination with a magnifying glass, the 2, is in fact a 2. I can't imagine that an inner barrel double-ring handle would have been mated to a single-ring razor outer by the manufacturer. My guess is that someone pieced together a couble of razor parts...what say you?

While it is possible that the barrel comes from a different razor than the single ring handle, there has been much debate about when Gillette actually started manufacturing the single ring. I believe the consensus is that the single ring was made as early as 1905, and was sold concurrently with the double ring. Krumholz did a significant amount of research prior to producing his book, the Gillette Collector's Handbook, which indicated that the single ring wasn't produced until 1906. Although this has been the long-standing belief, recent evidence from members here and their 1905 numbered single rings indicate that the single ring was indeed produced as early as 1905. So I believe that you may have a very early single ring instead of a mismatched set. Congrats

 

[Mark1966]

I'm with Nick. See threads like this.

 

[mr-razor]

Welcome to B&B. We have seen many 1905 single rings on this forum. They came in a slide clasp case like the double ring razors. The earliest serial number that we know on this board is 280 226 from @shekoujay. The latest double ring number was 589 068 from @highball

 

[mmcbride56]

Welcome to the B&B, most likely your theory is true.................and 2nd you wanna know why we are mad at you?

Is it becasue I did not include a picture of the razor?? - If so, I edited the post to add some shots.

 

[the beav]

Is it becasue I did not include a picture of the razor?? - If so, I edited the post to add some shots.

LOL--I'd be more inclined to think it was because you are new here and found a razor that some people have spent a lifetime looking for. Congratulations on a great find!!!

 

[mmbcastle]

While it is possible that the barrel comes from a different razor than the single ring handle, there has been much debate about when Gillette actually started manufacturing the single ring. I believe the consensus is that the single ring was made as early as 1905, and was sold concurrently with the double ring. Krumholz did a significant amount of research prior to producing his book, the Gillette Collector's Handbook, which indicated that the single ring wasn't produced until 1906. Although this has been the long-standing belief, recent evidence from members here and their 1905 numbered single rings indicate that the single ring was indeed produced as early as 1905. So I believe that you may have a very early single ring instead of a mismatched set. Congrats

There are actually two schools of thought here as we haven't heard where Krumholz got the information as to the introduction of the Single Ring. If he got that from advertising or product literature dates, then the serial numbers are the issue. Since we know Gillette wasn't keeping records of serial numbers in this period, I think that has a lot of weight too.

 

[TommyG]

I am just wondering, that if many of the highly regarded members of B&B believe that 1905, was the date of the first Single Rings; then, could it also be possible that some of these had come in the Double Ring Cases. By this I mean with the Three Hole Blade Picture, the Price of $5.00, and the 12 Blade information on the bottom. Could the other cases with just the blade picture stamped on the bottom, have come a little later on?

 

[alex2363]

I am just wondering, that if many of the highly regarded members of B&B believe that 1905, was the date of the first Single Rings; then, could it also be possible that some of these had come in the Double Ring Cases. By this I mean with the Three Hole Blade Picture, the Price of $5.00, and the 12 Blade information on the bottom. Could the other cases with just the blade picture stamped on the bottom, have come a little later on?

This great link may cover it all even your question.
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthread.php/250873-Oldest-Single-Ring-known/page4

 

[TommyG]

/Hi; I just received what appears to be a legitimate 1905 Single Ring Set (356438). The razor itself is in Excellent condition, along with the cardboard blade cases, and Inside of the case. The outer layer of leather however; has begun to peel. The case is the Double Ring Style, with the $5.00 price and 12 Blade Information, under the Three Hole Blade Picture Stamp. Because of the condition of the Razor, and inside of the case, it looks like a perfect match. This is why I asked the question of the possibility of some of the 1905 Single Ring Razors being sold with Double Ring Cases. I am aware of Achim's Set, with the CORRECT case for the Early Single Rings. (Just the Three Hole Blade Stamped on the Bottom of the Case) I will post pictures as soon as possible, and would appreciate any input, or other fact finding on this issue. I will Shave with it, as I do all my razors.

 

[TommyG]

 

[alex2363]

I added your razor to Early Single ring Wiki Tom...
http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Very_Early_Single_Rings?redirect=no

Mr-Razor	337905	Single Ring
TommyG	356438	Single Ring
TCP	359651	Single Ring

 

[TommyG]

Thank you very much for placing my 1905, on the Early Single Ring list!!!

 

[Jeff_H]

Shouldn't the OP's Single Ring go in the shave wiki too, or did I miss something about it not being legit?

 

[alex2363]

Shouldn't the OP's Single Ring go in the shave wiki too, or did I miss something about it not being legit?

Yes, but the OP/Mcbride56 did have a question and we provided links and our members gave answers to the OP/Mcbride56 and we are waiting for his response so it can come to a conclusion. Mcbride56 has only posted once and we are still waiting for his consensus or satisfaction to all our input so we can document the razor accordingly.

 

[alex2363]

Thank you very much for placing my 1905, on the Early Single Ring list!!!

You are welcome Tommy

 

[TommyG]

Last night I just noticed that my two cases with the slide latches, ( Double Ring and Early 1905 Single Ring), which have the same ful info. on the bottom are actually different sizes! The Double Ring Case is larger, taller and has a thicker top lid. Both cases have the 3 Hole Blade Stamp with the $5.00 Price and the 12 Blade Info. on the bottom. I showed the pictures of my Early Single Ring, and now want to discuss my Double Ring. I acquired it nearly a year ago on "The Bay". It is "THAT RAZOR" which has been discussed on B&B since about 2010. It has a "C" Prefix on the Inner Barrel. (C 53742). There has been various discussions about this; as to whether it is a Real 1905 DR or a Mixed Matched Razor. There were also ideas, that perhaps it came from the 1906 Montreal Plant. The tooling on the "C" seems to be unique, and the last letters placed on the barrel were the B series for U.S. Single Rings. I believe it to be the Real Thing, from all I have read. The TTO knob shows more use, but I have seen some DR'S with way more wear on the knob than the handle. If it is decided to not be the Real Thing, it is still a razor in great shape that I used today to shave with. I would welcome more input on this. Here are some pictures of the two sets, and the size difference of the cases.