Gillette Canada serial numbers

[alex2363]

The new wiki page Gillette_Canada_Dating_Information up to date now, I think.

Porter, if you can spare some time I would be delighted to have your expertise on assigning probable dates to the rows in the Old Type table. Ideally the rows in the table should be ordered by probable year. We could add a year column if that would help, and I am open to revising or extending the table in any way that makes sense.

I added the pic to the B&B/Elmerwood's #501144 razor. ( I cropped it to make it smaller) to the WIKI page

900201	900201	Single Ring	-	-	-	-	-	Single ring with diamond logo under guard plate, in a combination set case with diamond logo inside case. Inspector ticket dated 1910-10-13.
PC 06227	06227	Pocket	-	-	-	-	-	Thin-handled ball end, no stamping on bottom of guard plate, ABC-style cap studs, punched-down collar, latch-closure basketweave case w/ patent dates on bottom, gold Gillette diamond label
PC 63959	63959	Pocket	-	-	-	-	-	Thin-handled ball end, no stamping on bottom of guard plate, ABC-style cap studs, punched-down collar, four-rivet plain case w/ patent numbers on bottom, Gillette diamond label missing
404543	404543	Pocket	-	-	-	-	-	Thin-handled ball end; "Made in Canada" (left) and large Gillette diamond (right) stamped on guard plate; bullet-style cap studs; punched-up collar; thick, no-rivet floral case w/ nothing on bottom; silver Gillette diamond label
501144	501144	Single Ring	standard	bullet	-	-	yes	Number on guard. http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...44#post5038868 and http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...87#post5039787

 

[alex2363]

Here are a couple pics of the single ring. Unfortunately the to post was broke and spun freely not allowing me to take it apart but I managed to "Fix it" by tig welding it. Any who...

I added the top pic to the WIKI, Mike/MBLAKELE already added the numbers in for you. I was not 100% sure of the dating system so i am glad he did it.

 

[anaguma]

Got another one here. I bought one on the bay from a seller in France. Here are the deetales:

Single-ring; Thin-handled, ball end with no knurling on the ball. Serial number on top of guard plate: 298370. Stamped on bottom of guard plate is "Made in Canada" on left, and Gillette diamond logo on right; bullet-style cap studs; Standard style case with silkscreened Gillette logo on the inside; a "no resale" warning pasted on bottom of the case; 2 black cardboard blade holders inside with "Gillette" written on them.



Picture of the bottom of the case:

 

[alex2363]

Got another one here. I bought one on the bay from a seller in France. Here are the deetales:

Single-ring; Thin-handled, ball end with no knurling on the ball. Serial number on top of guard plate: 298370. Stamped on bottom of guard plate is "Made in Canada" on left, and Gillette diamond logo on right; bullet-style cap studs; Standard style case with silkscreened Gillette logo on the inside; a "no resale" warning pasted on bottom of the case; 2 black cardboard blade holders inside with "Gillette" written on them.

View attachment 345946

Picture of the bottom of the case:
View attachment 345945

Thank you for your great contribution, it has now been included in the Wiki for fun referencing. http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Gillette_Canada_Dating_Information?redirect=no

 

[MacDaddy]

I've reordered the table on the wiki page in what I think is the most likely guess at a chronological ordering of the razors there. My assumptions there are that the "C" and "PC" series ran simultaneously followed by a subsequent reset to 000000 without the letter prefix. I believe those are safe assumptions; however, what will be harder (or impossible) to tell is whether the "C" and "PC" series was a single numeric series just with varying prefixes for the type or razor ("C" for standard Single Rings and "PC" for Pocket Editions), which is how I've ordered them for now, or if they were two independent series that incremented separately as razors of each type were produced.

 

[anaguma]

Thank you for your great contribution, it has now been included in the Wiki for fun referencing. http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Gillette_Canada_Dating_Information?redirect=no

I've reordered the table on the wiki page in what I think is the most likely guess at a chronological ordering of the razors there. My assumptions there are that the "C" and "PC" series ran simultaneously followed by a subsequent reset to 000000 without the letter prefix. I believe those are safe assumptions; however, what will be harder (or impossible) to tell is whether the "C" and "PC" series was a single numeric series just with varying prefixes for the type or razor ("C" for standard Single Rings and "PC" for Pocket Editions), which is how I've ordered them for now, or if they were two independent series that incremented separately as razors of each type were produced.

Thank you both for all of your work in organizing these razors in an attempt to make heads and tails (or caps and handles) out of them. I've become a big fan of the foreign-made (English and Canadian) Gillettes - especially the Old Type and the service set / 7 o'clock types. I can't put my finger on it, but for me (YMMV), the shaving experience is excellent: smooth and close.

This may be the beginning of a love affair...

 

[mblakele]

I've reordered the table on the wiki page in what I think is the most likely guess at a chronological ordering of the razors there. My assumptions there are that the "C" and "PC" series ran simultaneously followed by a subsequent reset to 000000 without the letter prefix. I believe those are safe assumptions; however, what will be harder (or impossible) to tell is whether the "C" and "PC" series was a single numeric series just with varying prefixes for the type or razor ("C" for standard Single Rings and "PC" for Pocket Editions), which is how I've ordered them for now, or if they were two independent series that incremented separately as razors of each type were produced.

Thanks for doing that, Porter.

Can I ask for your thoughts on the razor stamped 900201? That is a single ring cataloged by Achim with an inspector ticket dated 1910-10-13. The way you have the table arranged suggests that 900201 is later than the 173489 bell-end Aristocrat, so probably not 1910 after all? Now that I look closer at the photo of the ticket, it shows the Boston address not Montreal - which seems odd for a Canada set. And it seems to address the blades not the razor. Do you suppose that blade pack was a substitution?

 

[MacDaddy]

Can I ask for your thoughts on the razor stamped 900201? That is a single ring cataloged by Achim with an inspector ticket dated 1910-10-13. The way you have the table arranged suggests that 900201 is later than the 173489 bell-end Aristocrat, so probably not 1910 after all? Now that I look closer at the photo of the ticket, it shows the Boston address not Montreal - which seems odd for a Canada set. And it seems to address the blades not the razor. Do you suppose that blade pack was a substitution?

I'm not sure exactly what to make of that set. The brush that's in the set is marked "Gillette Sales Co. Boston Mass. USA," too. I wonder if the set is an older American-made one that got the razor swapped into it at some point...?

The stamping on the razor certainly seems more like it ought to be later than 1910 based on our other examples -- notice how the diamond is switched over to the left side (in more "standard" fashion), and the "Made in Canada" has changed from the upper-case sans serif of the earlier serial numbers, like elmerwood's 501144, to title-cased slab serif, like what you'd see on the later post-patent Old Types out of Canada (see below) and like the No. 501 set just before it in the table.

 

[alex2363]

I've reordered the table on the wiki page in what I think is the most likely guess at a chronological ordering of the razors there. My assumptions there are that the "C" and "PC" series ran simultaneously followed by a subsequent reset to 000000 without the letter prefix. I believe those are safe assumptions; however, what will be harder (or impossible) to tell is whether the "C" and "PC" series was a single numeric series just with varying prefixes for the type or razor ("C" for standard Single Rings and "PC" for Pocket Editions), which is how I've ordered them for now, or if they were two independent series that incremented separately as razors of each type were produced.

I think at this time with what has been discovered about that numbering system it may be functional. Maybe as time goes by and more sets are posted then it may all fall into order, but for now the set up is good. Great work.

 

[alex2363]

Thanks for doing that, Porter.

Can I ask for your thoughts on the razor stamped 900201? That is a single ring cataloged by Achim with an inspector ticket dated 1910-10-13. The way you have the table arranged suggests that 900201 is later than the 173489 bell-end Aristocrat, so probably not 1910 after all? Now that I look closer at the photo of the ticket, it shows the Boston address not Montreal - which seems odd for a Canada set. And it seems to address the blades not the razor. Do you suppose that blade pack was a substitution?

This one?

 

[Sled Dog]

Here is a post with my latest Canadian smooth ball..serial number PC101437

 

[alex2363]

Here is a post with my latest Canadian smooth ball..serial number PC101437

Your in Sleddog, here is the Wiki http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Gillette_Canada_Dating_Information

PC 06227	6227	Pocket	-	punched-down	ABC	patch	no	Thin-handled ball end, no stamping on bottom of guard plate, ABC-style cap studs, punched-down collar, latch-closure basketweave case w/ patent dates on bottom, gold Gillette diamond label [Porter].
PC 07509	7509	Pocket	smooth ball	-	-	-	-	Pocket edition with smooth ball and asymmetrical studs; basket-weave case with signature logo on underside and 1907 Russian patent: http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showthr...ette-Open-Comb
PC 101437	PC 101437	Pocket	Smooth Ball	punched down	bullet	---	---	No markings (Made in Canada or the diamond logo) on the back/smooth ball/solid handle Canadian model (B&B Sled Dog)

 

[MacDaddy]

Your in Sleddog, here is the Wiki http://wiki.badgerandblade.com/Gillette_Canada_Dating_Information

I fixed the sorting order for you, Alex. You'd inserted it as if it were in the 10,000s instead of the 100,000s.

 

[alex2363]

I fixed the sorting order for you, Alex. You'd inserted it as if it were in the 10,000s instead of the 100,000s.

I was thinking, how about inserting all the C's in order, followed by the PC's, then the non lettered sequence. That would look less confusing or atleast have some kind of order.

example :
PC XXXX
PC XXXXX
PC xxxxxx
PC xxxxx
PC xxxxx

C xxxxx
Cxxxxx
C xxxxx
C xxxxxx

111111
222222
333333
555555555
11225555555

 

[MacDaddy]

I was thinking, how about inserting all the C's in order, followed by the PC's, then the non lettered sequence. That would look less confusing or atleast have some kind of order.

That's what I was trying to explain in my earlier post when I sorted the list in the first place. Right now it seems like the Canadian plant was probably using the "C" and "PC" prefixes simultaneously, not sequentially. So I ordered the list into two separate sections: the first, with the "C" and "PC" numbers in numeric order; the second, with the numeric-only serials. Or, to modify your example list:

PC xxxx
C xxxxx
C xxxxx
PC xxxxx
C xxxxx
PC xxxxx
PC xxxxx
C xxxxxx
PC xxxxxx

111111
222222
333333
​

What is harder to tell is whether they were two separate series running simultaneously (... PC 1001, PC 1002, PC 1003, ... and ... C 1001, C 1002, C 1003, ...) or if it was a single series that just changed the prefix depending on the kind of razor (... PC 1001, PC 1002, C 1003, C 1004, ...). Really, the only way we'd probably be able to ever tell the two apart would be if we found a PC-series Pocket Edition and a C-series Single Ring with the same number.

 

[mblakele]

I tripped over this ad and wanted to post it somewhere, in hope that it will be useful. I think we already knew that the Montreal plant was supplying Atlantic markets, especially after the Leicester plant closed ca. 1916. But it is interesting to see that they were also shipping razors, and presumably blades, to so many other markets. The ad lists many British colonies in the Pacific and Indian oceans, plus the Caribbean. This also suggests that Boston had its hands full supplying the USA.

The source is Pacific Ports, September 1919, p132. Click through the image to see it in google books.

 

[alex2363]

How on earth did you just trip over this ad, that book is stacked with ads. Were you intentionally looking?

 

[alex2363]

That's what I was trying to explain in my earlier post when I sorted the list in the first place. Right now it seems like the Canadian plant was probably using the "C" and "PC" prefixes simultaneously, not sequentially. So I ordered the list into two separate sections: the first, with the "C" and "PC" numbers in numeric order; the second, with the numeric-only serials. Or, to modify your example list:

PC xxxx
C xxxxx
C xxxxx
PC xxxxx
C xxxxx
PC xxxxx
PC xxxxx
C xxxxxx
PC xxxxxx

111111
222222
333333
​

What is harder to tell is whether they were two separate series running simultaneously (... PC 1001, PC 1002, PC 1003, ... and ... C 1001, C 1002, C 1003, ...) or if it was a single series that just changed the prefix depending on the kind of razor (... PC 1001, PC 1002, C 1003, C 1004, ...). Really, the only way we'd probably be able to ever tell the two apart would be if we found a PC-series Pocket Edition and a C-series Single Ring with the same number.

I think it was single series that changed with the razor, it seems too erratic and scattered for the prefix to be the indicator, it has to be the razor design change that makes the changing of the prefix.

 

[mblakele]

How on earth did you just trip over this ad, that book is stacked with ads. Were you intentionally looking?

I was looking for information about Gillette in Australia 1906-1920. There are a few other Gillette Montreal ads in the same volume: the earliest was in May, I think.

I guess the Montreal management knew that Slough was coming online? If they wanted to keep production up, they would have to find new outlets for the razors they had been sending to Europe.

 

[Jaber]

Hi Everyone, First post here. Let's see if we can get pics this time.
Just picked up this set. Thanks for the info.