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Getting that BBS Neck!

The neck has been the problem since I wore short pants. I can get it all bbs with a real injector, that can slide everywhichaway around those knolls, due to the short length of the blade. Stretching helps, as does a sharp blade and knowing how the beard down under flows. Or, you can be a settler
There's a difference between learning and growing but knowing when you are doing more harm than good, and settling.
 
I have the same issues on the neck everyone else has. I too have learned to leave "well enough" alone sometimes. The real issue for me is that there are some directions on certain parts of the neck that just don't work without irritation. So, I just don't do those.

There are plenty of little tricks however so I usually end up with an OK shave. I find the chin to be the most difficult and if you nick yourself on the lower chin then it's even more difficult for the next several shaves as it's easy to just re-nick yourself.
 
Some good tips here.

The neck, and places on the neck can and are hard to get BBS. Some of us have circular growing hair below the corner of our jaw. Sometimes I get real close, and sometimes I get more rash than wanted.

Try all different angles and strokes on problematic areas. For me, I have found that a Steep angle works best on my circular hairs with straight razor or DE. If you don't know what steep angle is, there are threads about it here. I'm not suggesting that it is your fix, but it worked for me on those rebellious neck hairs.

Anyway, Don' Stress It!! This hobby is TOO MUCH FUN to let some rogue hairs damper the mood! :laugh: Enjoy BBS where you can get it!
:thumbup:
 
I'm slowly learning how to get a DFS shave in one pass (all ATG). I'm still not getting the direction right on my neck, and indeed, that's were the grain goes all sorts of directions.

My recommendation is to make a first pass in whatever direction eliminates most of the stubble, then lather up for a second pass and use the fingers of your non-razor hand to find the stubble and direction in spots that didn't get removed on the first pass. No point in re-shaving parts of your face with no stubble left.

I also have "phantom" stubble on my neck -- it drags on a wash cloth wet, and I feel it, but when my face dries I can no longer find it. Shaving won't remove it and repeated passes just irritate the skin there. Check for that, too.

For me the key to a smooth shave is a good initial ATG pass. You may or may not be able to tolerate that, I appear to have iron skin. Takes some real abuse for me to get razor burn.

Peter

Glad to see someone adequately describe "phantom stubble." I have that too in one area of my neck. Very annoying. I end up trying to do a few touch up passes on it and tearing my neck up.
 
Glad to see someone adequately describe "phantom stubble." I have that too in one area of my neck. Very annoying. I end up trying to do a few touch up passes on it and tearing my neck up.

Thank you! This entire thread has been helpful to me - mostly to learn that I may just have to accept the "phantom stubble" (basically where a collar touches my neck), and move on to the next shave. Too many touch ups on the neck have always just given me irritation. Whether I was using an electric in my early teens, cartridges from early 20's through 30's and now finally DE shaving for the past two years or so, the same neck irritation applies. Chasing BBS on the neck makes me feel like Don Quixote at times. After my third pass overall, I almost always say to myself...that is a DFS...but then I end up chasing the neck touch ups and result in the same irritation.
 

Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
Chasing BBS on the neck makes me feel like Don Quixote at times. After my third pass overall, I almost always say to myself...that is a DFS...but then I end up chasing the neck touch ups and result in the same irritation.

Welcome to the forum!

If you want to possibly solve all of your ATG shaving issues, do a search for the word 'rigid' and read. Then read some more. Once I understood the concept it was an epiphany for me.

I started shaving with a DE in the early to mid 1980's then moved to cartridges and electrics before coming back to DE razors just before I joined this forum. Rigid designs combined with little to no blade gap and the right blade solved all of my issues.

I now mainly use SE's because those blades are even more rigid. My skin has liked the change.

It's true we're all different, but with the right combination you may not need to settle for anything less than the shave you desire. The hard part, is learning and understanding what will give it to you and why.

Since I discovered the difference a rigidly held blade makes in my shaves in the thread below, my shaves have done nothing but get better and my better. They still are too.

Gillette NEW LC Not Cutting It
 

Ron R

I survived a lathey foreman
The neck is a interesting challenge, I go through my routine of two passes 1st pass WTG, 2nd pass ATG and clean up is usually below the neck and chin left side, For the neck I use a slightly skin stretch with a herring bone short strokes approach because the hairs are like phantom whiskers with strange pattern growth with some lying flat and results have been good> excellent for the neck area's.
Ghost whisker's:velva2: 400-450X Magnification with my Andonstar 500 USB magnifier?
Ghost whiskers  (2).jpg
 
Welcome to the forum!

If you want to possibly solve all of your ATG shaving issues, do a search for the word 'rigid' and read. Then read some more. Once I understood the concept it was an epiphany for me.

Gillette NEW LC Not Cutting It

Thanks Mike. B&B has been great at consuming more time than I care to admit... I will definitely do some reading on rigidity and will reply to this thread to reveal my results after experimenting.

By the way, when use my Merkur 15C, I have hoped the OC would help. The OC definitely helps when I go a few days without shaving. I love the OC razor, but still have the same neck irritation; same with the E4 Fatboy and H1 Slim. Dialing the adjustables down from first to third passes and then to 1 on the touch ups helps, but my stubbornness leads me to adding pressure.

Andrew
 
The neck is a interesting challenge, I go through my routine of two passes 1st pass WTG, 2nd pass ATG and clean up is usually below the neck and chin left side, For the neck I use a slightly skin stretch with a herring bone short strokes approach because the hairs are like phantom whiskers with strange pattern growth with some lying flat and results have been good> excellent for the neck area's.
Ghost whisker's:velva2: 400-450X Magnification with my Andonstar 500 USB magnifier?
View attachment 929484
Wow, that is a unique view of the skin! Of course I had to google the Andonstar...
Thanks for the advice @Ron R
I have tried the herringbone short strokes too, and it helps. I found that shaving with a diagonal stroke (like a slant razor would do) helps greatly. I got the idea from the vintage 1920's Gillette Guide to Shaving pamphlet of all places.
 

Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
Thanks Mike. B&B has been great at consuming more time than I care to admit... I will definitely do some reading on rigidity and will reply to this thread to reveal my results after experimenting.

By the way, when use my Merkur 15C, I have hoped the OC would help. The OC definitely helps when I go a few days without shaving. I love the OC razor, but still have the same neck irritation; same with the E4 Fatboy and H1 Slim. Dialing the adjustables down from first to third passes and then to 1 on the touch ups helps, but my stubbornness leads me to adding pressure.

Andrew

The 15C is a more rigid design than the typical Merkur base, but I havent had one to look at so I cant say very much about it.

I will say a lot of it can be in the angle of use. My Fatip Grande is OC and has very generous blade exposure, equal to the Muhle R41, but is much much smoother. For me to get the shave I like from it, I use it very shallow. In the picture below imagine the red line being the level of my skin with the cap pushed into it. The green line being the neutral angle.

IMG_2182 (2).JPG


That razor, used at the angle, directly ATG with a single buffing pass at 48+ hours growth gives me a really nice shave. I dont feel the blade and the post shave feel is like I havent shaved.

My R41 and angle of use below.

r41angle.jpg


That razor, with any blade but a Feather, is almost impossible for me to use. With a Feather blade I need 3 full passes and I even had to modify the direction of shave on my second pass to stay directly XTG before shaving ATG on my third pass. For the same BBS finish I need two more cleanups in five directions over the swirl growth patterns on my neck to whittle the stubble down so the blade doesnt skip. With my Grande and other rigid designs, I need to cleanup in two directions to BBS them.

The BBS finish from both razors is the same, 10-12 hours easily. As long as I do my part, the post shave feel is comparable.

My Grande is much smoother and consequently the easier shave. Both are good razors but both are very different razors. If I was content with an intense 3 pass+ shave I'd use the R41 more often. I like easy, quick and comfortable so my Grande saw more use.

The difference between the two is how much support the baseplate lends the blade. The Fatip heads fully support the blade very nearly to the edge. The R41 does not.

The Gillette adjustable razors are pretty smooth, but like my Grande, even the very edge of the blade can flex if you dont have the right angle. If I use my Grande steeper than the red line in the picture above, I can feel the very edge of the blade flex and tug each hair it encounters. The result of that is irritation. If I shave at the wrong angle too quickly, the result are weepers. I did that again just the other day with my Gillette Slim.
 
The 15C is a more rigid design than the typical Merkur base, but I havent had one to look at so I cant say very much about it.

Thank you for explaining that aspect. Below is a closeup of my Merkur shown loaded with a Nacet blade. This is also with the head tightened just shy of the max (about 1/8th backed off). With max tightening, the blade is near flush to the combs. I assume max tightening would increase rigidity.
 

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Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
Thank you for explaining that aspect. Below is a closeup of my Merkur shown loaded with a blade.


Thanks for the pic.

That looks like a very mild shaver. Assuming it has negative blade exposure, pressure would need to be increased for an effective cut.

This is my made in England clone of a Gillette Old Type, also mild and OC but it appears to have more blade exposure than your Merkur.

IMG_2648.jpg


Brit Clone_Steep.jpg


That is a wonderful little razor despite not being the most rigid design, its rigid enough because it has little blade exposure. Using a Feather blade, that razor is 3 full passes and a single clean up. 'Smooth' is an understatement for that razor, but I also use it very steep (the red line again) and with considerable pressure. Its one of my favorite DE's.

You might try adjusting your angle and pressure combination. When you get it just right, you'll know.
 

Ron R

I survived a lathey foreman
Thanks for the pic.

That looks like a very mild shaver. Assuming it has negative blade exposure, pressure would need to be increased for an effective cut.

This is my made in England clone of a Gillette Old Type, also mild and OC but it appears to have more blade exposure than your Merkur.

View attachment 929522

View attachment 929524

That is a wonderful little razor despite not being the most rigid design, its rigid enough because it has little blade exposure. Using a Feather blade, that razor is 3 full passes and a single clean up. 'Smooth' is an understatement for that razor, but I also use it very steep (the red line again) and with considerable pressure. Its one of my favorite DE's.

You might try adjusting your angle and pressure combination. When you get it just right, you'll know.
Esox, I forgot what the red line indicates?
 
I don't think we should assume a DE razor here. A GEM PTE blade is not only sharp but rigid, and that seems to irritate less according to several users, myself included. For a very small sum of money you can get an Ever-Ready 1912 GEM razor off eBay and try this out for yourself. For me it was a revelation.
 

Ron R

I survived a lathey foreman
My angle of use.
So fair to say that you are riding the bar on the old type English clone razor using that type of razor.
Great pictures and illustrations IMO.
 
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Esox

I didnt know
Staff member
So fair to say that you are riding the bar on the old type Gillette razor using that type of razor.
Great pictures and illustrations IMO.

I use all my Old Types steep yeah, they have less blade exposure. My NEW SC neutral to shallow, Techs neutral, SS neutral. Only my razors with a lot of blade exposure, Fatip, R41, Gillette Regent and MMOC I use shallow.

Now that I'm using my MMOC all the time the difference between DE and SE blades, like @les24preludes said, was a revelation.

The thicker SE blades just dont flex, even at the very edge of the blade. That makes them a lot smoother for me. Using my MMOC, I can use it as steep as I do my Old Types without issue, but its a very technical shave with so much of that very sharp blade exposed until about shave 4 or 5. Shaving with my MMOC steep, with a fresh blade gave me an 18+ hour BBS and it was comfortable too, if not easy.

My longest lasting BBS was with my Regent and a fresh Polsilver at around 23 hours. That razor I believe has more blade exposure than either my Grande or R41, but no where near as easy a shave as my Grande, or as comfortable.

Again, the red line is my angle of use.

Regent_angles.jpg


That razor is very difficult to get the most from, but a very good shave, 8-10 hour BBS, is easy. Its all in the angle of blade to skin combined with pressure applied.

When I use a DE with a shallow angle, Regent, Fatip and R41, the actual angle of blade to skin is much the same as the MMOC used at its design angle.

When I use it steep, with far less pressure than I do shallow, its roughly the same angle of blade to skin as with my Old Types.

The amount of pressure and the angle I use varies with the blade. Using my MMOC and a fresh PTFE blade I use it extremely shallow and push the cap into my skin. By shave 4 on the same blade my angle is steeper and with less pressure through to shave 6 or 7. From there to shave 10, the furthest I've taken a single PTFE, it was all comb and I was increasing pressure to get the same BBS finish because of blade wear.

With a DE blade in my Grande or Regent however, if I steepen the angle like that the blade edge flexes. To compensate for blade wear in my DE's, I was adjusting my pressure and angle the same way but that lead to either irritation or a less close shave. If I remember right, by shave #20 on a single Polsilver I was down to a 6 hour BBS.

Thanks. Pictures help give an idea, but its no more than an idea. Its difficult to explain with words and/or pictures how one shaves by feel.
 

Ad Astra

The Instigator
Against the grain doesn't have to mean a potentially rash-giving 90 angle ... Quartering angles, like NNW or SSE, are a way to test the water, so to speak. Half ATG and XTG.


AA
 
I can achieve a BBS smooth shave on my neck every time with any razor or any blade.
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Just do the finish pass with a Mach III.. works every time.
MM897
 
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