Getting rid of Windows (going to Linux really)

[StillShaving]

Once you go Mac you'll never go back.



(sorry. I couldn't resist )

Apologies for the slight thread diversion, but I am curious does MacOS use the same window controls as the original MacIntosh from back in the 80s/90s?

The MacBook Air is a nice mobile laptop due to its processing power and battery life. But I did not like the keyboard and got annoyed by the MacOS window manager. How one part of the app-in-focus was always full screen (menu bar at the top) and the window controls were on the "wrong" side when compared to most Windows, Android, and Linux. I looked for a way to configure some of this like is available on unix/linux but gave up and thought there must be a long history behind the UI layout.

 

[Doc Dan]

Apologies for the slight thread diversion, but I am curious does MacOS use the same window controls as the original MacIntosh from back in the 80s/90s?

The MacBook Air is a nice mobile laptop due to its processing power and battery life. But I did not like the keyboard and got annoyed by the MacOS window manager. How one part of the app-in-focus was always full screen (menu bar at the top) and the window controls were on the "wrong" side when compared to most Windows, Android, and Linux. I looked for a way to configure some of this like is available on unix/linux but gave up and thought there must be a long history behind the UI layout.

I can't say about the 90's. It is better than the 80's. Mac does not use windows (though there are some that will operate windows and etc.). Mac is a direct interface. As far as the menu bar, you can configure it. You will quickly get used to it and it is very intuitive.

 

[Slapo]

Apologies for the slight thread diversion, but I am curious does MacOS use the same window controls as the original MacIntosh from back in the 80s/90s?

The MacBook Air is a nice mobile laptop due to its processing power and battery life. But I did not like the keyboard and got annoyed by the MacOS window manager. How one part of the app-in-focus was always full screen (menu bar at the top) and the window controls were on the "wrong" side when compared to most Windows, Android, and Linux. I looked for a way to configure some of this like is available on unix/linux but gave up and thought there must be a long history behind the UI layout.

I don't have an issue with window controls being on the left, it's just a matter of getting used to it.

However, having a global menu in a fixed position regardless of what size a window is or where it is can get quite annoying, especially on a larger screen (I have a work MacBook, but dislike working on small screens, so I hardly ever use the built-in one).
This can be partially offset by tiling windows to e.g. screen halves and using virtual desktops.

Both of these seems to be features that are characteristic of the OS and I haven't found a way of tweaking it either.

 

[Slapo]

Lovely conversation here. The last Windows OS I used, was Windows 7, because that was literally the last good Windows OS, that Microsoft made. Everything went to garbage, when they came out with Windows 8, then 10, and now 11. Thats when their business model became to use you for their gains.

While in Windows 10, they had the feature to let you turn off all the privacy snooping, if you knew where to go to do that, in Windows 11, they had a recent update, that prevents you from doing that now. So if you use a system modern enough to use Windows 11, Microsoft are stealing you souls.

I've used several Linux distro's, Mandrake, Suse, Feren OS, Makulu Lindoz, Mint, POP OS, Zorin OS. Out of all of them, the ones that I liked most, were Zorin OS, and POP OS. I did a lot of distro hopping, to figure out what I like most, and what I wanted to stick with.

Mandrake and Suse just didn't work out for me years ago, perhaps not flushed out enough. Mint is great for a business office machine, but I did not like it for gaming and production workloads. Both Feren OS, and and Makulu Lindoz, I had issues with memory leaks, but overall the OS's looked decent.

I was on POP OS for at least a year, but their continuous kernel updates broke my installation, and now they are running a lesser then stellar version of Ubuntu, that IMO, violates open source and user choice, that is commonly a thing expected of Linux.

I first got into Zorin OS, back in the Zorin OS 9 days, I loved it, minus it filling up a buffer cash, that would brick the OS, until you cleared it. I then used Zorin OS 12, loved it even more, because they fixed the buffer cash getting filled up and not cleaned out. And now I am on Zorin OS 16, which is really awesome folks, love it.

They have Zorin OS 17 right now, but I wasn't interested in upgrading, while OS 16 still received security updates, and everything is working how I like it. I'm basically waiting for OS 18 to come out, then I will upgrade to that.

Zorin OS is my favorite, because its designed to do just about everything. It handles my general computer usage, as well as gaming, and production workloads, just fine. I have 0-interest in overly complicated Linux OS's, that require more of a programmers knowledge to operate them, like Arch for example.

Windows 8 I could understand, and I haven't used Windows 11 much, but what did you not like about Windows 10 (other than the snooping bits)?

 

[Star_Wahl_Clipper_Treker]

Windows 8 I could understand, and I haven't used Windows 11 much, but what did you not like about Windows 10 (other than the snooping bits)?

As mentioned, I left Microsoft Windows, before 8, 10, 11. Windows 7 was the last OS that I personally used, on my machine.

Having said that, I am a tech geek, and have worked on some people's computers, which allowed me to gain experience with the latest Windows OS's, and I hated what I saw.

From a position of a basic computer user, there would be nothing wrong with Windows 10 or 11. But for tech geeks in the know, and who are older, and experienced previous Windows OS's, oh we have a big problem with Microsoft's business model.

Microsoft shares a lot in common with latest Gnome releases for Linux. My problem other then privacy snooping? How about the fact that they take OS features away from you, so you can't get at the heart of your OS to make any serious changes? How about the fact they hide the control panel, so unless you know exactly where to go to find it, you can't use it?

Microsoft and Gnome have the same business models these days, take away features you loved with older OS's, take away your control of the OS, so that the OS controls you, decides for you. I also hate that Microsoft does forced updates. Are you in the middle of a 1 to 5 page essay for school? Well, I hope that you had the word processor set to auto save every 5 minutes, cause once Windows force updates, guess what its going to do next? Restart your PC, and if you didn't have auto saves, or if you didn't manually save, you will lose your whole essay.

There is a good reason why those of us who are in the know, jumped ship off the Windows platform when we did. And MAC OS isn't much better either. Last time MAC OS was any good at all, was the 90's. But Apple is the same way as Microsoft these days, lock you into a platform, take your ability to adjust features of the OS, and do whatever it is they wanna do with you.

Folks like me didn't switch to Linux because we thought Linux looked cute, Linux has taken decades to get where it is today. Linux was impossible to use for non-programmers back in the 90's, and was pretty much known as a hacker's OS. Now days Linux has evolved enough for the lamen user and beginners to use, which is great!

But we switched to Linux, to get away from big corporations who wanted to take the choice away from us, and steer our lives the direction, they wanted us to go. I want the choice to be mine, and mine alone, and Linux gives me that choice.

Everybody who leaves Windows, leaves for their own reasons, and picks the Linux OS they wish to use, again, for their type of workflow. But I will never use a Windows OS again. As I said, Windows 7 was literally the last good OS they ever made, that was still the business model they had prior.

For the record, I also enjoyed Windows XP, the OS started out a little shaky, just like Windows98 did. But when the huge service level patch was made for it, Windows XP soon because one of the best Windows OS's ever made. I admit, they chose a unique bubbly design choice for the OS.

But one of the things I loved about Windows XP, that shares in common with Linux, is you could just about mod everything, you could chose your own theme, and make it look how you want. It brought a lot of performance improvements to that OS, including media consumption, and gaming consumption improvements.

So I will leave you with this, Linux...Linux is life

PS: I have my Zorin OS 16 installation completely customized, using a different launcher, and the entire OS themed the way I like it. Another reason why I love Linux.

 

[Slapo]

As mentioned, I left Microsoft Windows, before 8, 10, 11. Windows 7 was the last OS that I personally used, on my machine.

Having said that, I am a tech geek, and have worked on some people's computers, which allowed me to gain experience with the latest Windows OS's, and I hated what I saw.

From a position of a basic computer user, there would be nothing wrong with Windows 10 or 11. But for tech geeks in the know, and who are older, and experienced previous Windows OS's, oh we have a big problem with Microsoft's business model.

Microsoft shares a lot in common with latest Gnome releases for Linux. My problem other then privacy snooping? How about the fact that they take OS features away from you, so you can't get at the heart of your OS to make any serious changes? How about the fact they hide the control panel, so unless you know exactly where to go to find it, you can't use it?

Microsoft and Gnome have the same business models these days, take away features you loved with older OS's, take away your control of the OS, so that the OS controls you, decides for you. I also hate that Microsoft does forced updates. Are you in the middle of a 1 to 5 page essay for school? Well, I hope that you had the word processor set to auto save every 5 minutes, cause once Windows force updates, guess what its going to do next? Restart your PC, and if you didn't have auto saves, or if you didn't manually save, you will lose your whole essay.

There is a good reason why those of us who are in the know, jumped ship off the Windows platform when we did. And MAC OS isn't much better either. Last time MAC OS was any good at all, was the 90's. But Apple is the same way as Microsoft these days, lock you into a platform, take your ability to adjust features of the OS, and do whatever it is they wanna do with you.

Folks like me didn't switch to Linux because we thought Linux looked cute, Linux has taken decades to get where it is today. Linux was impossible to use for non-programmers back in the 90's, and was pretty much known as a hacker's OS. Now days Linux has evolved enough for the lamen user and beginners to use, which is great!

But we switched to Linux, to get away from big corporations who wanted to take the choice away from us, and steer our lives the direction, they wanted us to go. I want the choice to be mine, and mine alone, and Linux gives me that choice.

Everybody who leaves Windows, leaves for their own reasons, and picks the Linux OS they wish to use, again, for their type of workflow. But I will never use a Windows OS again. As I said, Windows 7 was literally the last good OS they ever made, that was still the business model they had prior.

For the record, I also enjoyed Windows XP, the OS started out a little shaky, just like Windows98 did. But when the huge service level patch was made for it, Windows XP soon because one of the best Windows OS's ever made. I admit, they chose a unique bubbly design choice for the OS.

But one of the things I loved about Windows XP, that shares in common with Linux, is you could just about mod everything, you could chose your own theme, and make it look how you want. It brought a lot of performance improvements to that OS, including media consumption, and gaming consumption improvements.

So I will leave you with this, Linux...Linux is life

PS: I have my Zorin OS 16 installation completely customized, using a different launcher, and the entire OS themed the way I like it. Another reason why I love Linux.

I'd say any snooping, while a factor in deciding whether to use an OS, isn't generally one that affects usability of a system (in the sense that it shouldn't get in the way, although it might affect what a person chooses to do on the computer).

I'm pretty sure Microsoft had only sort of hidden the control panel - it's still easily accessible via a start menu search, although you have to know of it to look for it.
I think that's because they needed more feedback on their new settings UI, and it's likely also one of the reasons why telemetry is on by default.
The biggest downside is that the UI doesn't yet contain all the functionality of the old UI.
I can't say I necessarily approve, but I do understand the choice - most people can't be bothered to report any issue they have unless it's to vent on social media (such as B&B), or to someone verbally. Even when they do report issues, the reports are often pretty feeble.

However, the OS is still pretty customisable, and they have freely available tools, such as PowerToys, which allow for further tweaks.
It's also pretty snappy, all the tools I've used before are there, and it hardly ever gets in the way of getting things done.

It isn't too different for Gnome 3 - they have simplified some things, but in its current form, I'd say it's better than the last iteration of Gnome 2 I've tried. Perhaps that is because I just use it as a launcher and for window management, and it's how I've always used any desktop environment, whether it's Explorer on Windows or KDE, Gnome, XFCE, LXDE/LXQT or any other one.
E.g. if I just press the Win key and start typing, I can find apps and files quickly. Navingating between workspaces is easy, window tiling is basic, but pretty much the way I need it. Getting an overview of all open windows is as easy as ever, as is switching between them. I like that, much like macOS, they also support switching just between windows of an app.

Besides, regardless of whether it's community driven or by a corporation, the development is usually in somebody else's hands and it always ends up being a choice between getting used to it, tweaking it or switching away.

What is it in e.g. Gnome 3 that you dislike in terms of functionality, or think that has been taken away and shouldn't have been?

 

[Star_Wahl_Clipper_Treker]

What is it in e.g. Gnome 3 that you dislike in terms of functionality, or think that has been taken away and shouldn't have been?

I don't wish to have a long conversation here on B&B, as this is more of a discussion for a Linux forum website. But to give you an example of at least 1-thing that bother's me, about the latest gnome.

On Zorin OS 16, I am able to utilize extensions, in order to increase functionality of the OS, I use several extensions which improves my workflow, and control of my computer. An example? I have an extension that allows me to manually adjust my CPU frequency, which improves stability in games.

In the latest Gnome, which is what POP OS uses for example, you can't install gnome extensions anymore, they have taken that right away from you, so you can no longer mod the OS, to improve your workflow. That is an absolute NO NO, when it comes to what open source Linux is supposed to be about.

Once you've had the freedom to do what you wish with your OS, you don't want to go back. Again, don't want to take over the website of B&B, about a huge discussion on computer's, but thats my stance on it. We can agree to disagree, if we have differing opinions. And I will leave you with this...

I live in a free country, a democracy. If I enjoy my rights and freedom's in a free country, I want to be able to do the same with my OS.

 

[c__port]

I know we're in danger of drifting off-topic, but it's easy to dual boot, AND it is relatively easy to (mostly) make Windows 11 behave:

1. ONLY ever use a local account
2. Disable Windows data tracking (How to disable data tracking features on Windows 11 - https://www.windowscentral.com/software-apps/windows-11/how-to-disable-data-tracking-features-on-windows-11 is a step-by-step pointy-clicky, but better ones are out there with powershell scripts)
3. Do not install Office. Only use the web version of any Office software. If you are a software junkie, install LibreOffice
4. Install some browser not chrome-based (LibreWolf, etc) and do not use Bing or Google.

The same effort it takes to search/read/apply tweaks to a distro can be applied to Windows 11 with decent results IMO. The reason I do it is for gaming and DRM-protected media consumption.

 

[StillShaving]

I don't have an issue with window controls being on the left, it's just a matter of getting used to it.

However, having a global menu in a fixed position regardless of what size a window is or where it is can get quite annoying, especially on a larger screen (I have a work MacBook, but dislike working on small screens, so I hardly ever use the built-in one).
This can be partially offset by tiling windows to e.g. screen halves and using virtual desktops.

Both of these seems to be features that are characteristic of the OS and I haven't found a way of tweaking it either.

I agree that one could get use to the MacOS window controls, but my issue is that I otherwise use Windows, Android, and Linux. I could see how some users would like the always-on-top menu bar, but on a small laptop screen I did not it like it taking up real estate.

I got the macbook air primarily as a secondary machine to use for traveling or couch surfing, so I never connected an external keyboard, mouse, or display. I should have tried a mouse since that is easy to pack/carry but I did not like using the flat, thin keyboard or touchpad. Both were bigger productivity drags than the UI. Apple pushing everyone to use their MacOS "store" is another big negative...Microsoft Windows is doing the same but not nearly to the same extent as Apple as far as I can tell. Linux has the advantage there.

 

[Doc Dan]

You can get rid of that on a Mac and it not block your screen. Also, Mac has amazing customer support.

The downside is that stuff that is free on other devices often cost $$ on a Mac. Mac wants everything proprietary, but they are not alone in this. For the average and above average user, Mac still is satisfying.

 

[Luc]

I started my backups on the newer computer. I don’t know if I should burn a disk with the Linux ISO file or keep my USB stick.

I might have a USB stick somewhere that I don’t use (smaller than 128go).

 

[Luc]

I finished my backups this morning. I then installed Linux Mint on my newer computer (it has an SSD hard disk so it's a bit faster). It took me a while to reconfigure everything as it did not work straight out of the box, even with my script. But it did eventually. I will take some notes in case I have to reinstall everything.

 

[never-stop-learning]

Been using Linux since ~2003. Lots of command line. Linux today is a joy to install and use. I rarely have to go to the command line anymore.

Used Ubuntu for years. Now that they make you pay for Ubuntu One to harden certain security settings, I'm moving to Mint Cinnamon LTS.

There are also lightweight distros out there for really old hardware. Distrowatch is a good resource.

 

[never-stop-learning]

The first time I loaded Debian, the installer was on floppy disks.

 

[ivan_101]

Lots of command line. Linux today is a joy to install and use. I rarely have to go to the command line anymore.

There is nothing like typing "apt update" or "zypper in [package name]". I am still doing it.

 

[never-stop-learning]

There is nothing like typing "apt update" or "zypper in [package name]". I am still doing it.

You're using SUSE Linux?

I used Vector (Slackware derivative) for a number of years. Installed lots of tar.gz packages.

 

[Eben Stone]

After using Arch since around 2010, I can say that it is not complicated; quite the opposite.

Not complicated? Did they ever add an installer? The last time I tried Arch it had to be installed manually, which was an interesting learning experience. I really liked the distro but I ended up breaking the think that lets you choose the desktop manager because I had installed many trying them out.

 

[never-stop-learning]

One caveat to Mint Cinnamon: I really hope that they've streamlined Cinnamon to some degree. When I used Mint Cinnamon some years back, Cinnamon was a real resource hog.

LXDE is a lightweight desktop environment that still looks good and is easy to use.

Fluxbox is a favorite of mine, but you have to manually set up the menus via text editor. Fluxbox is very low resource usage and you sure can make a Fluxbox desktop look pretty.

 

[ivan_101]

You're using SUSE Linux?

I used Vector (Slackware derivative) for a number of years. Installed lots of tar.gz packages.

openSUSE.
Here are the 5 distributions I have in a multiboot on my PC

Getting rid of Windows (going to Linux really)

Victory is mine! After a lot of playing around with Wine/PlayonLinux and so on, I was able to make my stuff work. It works well but I never heard the fan running so high in that computer. The CPUs went up to 75C (84C are high and 112C are critical. So, I will use it in small increments. The...

www.badgerandblade.com

One caveat to Mint Cinnamon: I really hope that they've streamlined Cinnamon to some degree. When I used Mint Cinnamon some years back, Cinnamon was a real resource hog.

LXDE is a lightweight desktop environment that still looks good and is easy to use.

Cinammon is great now. Unlike the first few years when they started it.
LXDE is a joke that pretends to be a complete desktop. If you mostly need to use command line, it does the job. XFCE is a tad better. I know those are the lightest ones. Have been testing them for many years.

After many years of usage I prefer KDE. It might be a very heavy one, but everything works so smooth. No problems with my 11 years old CPU, I have 16GB of RAM. Hated it when Mint dropped KDE.

 

[silverlifter]

Not complicated? Did they ever add an installer? The last time I tried Arch it had to be installed manually, which was an interesting learning experience. I really liked the distro but I ended up breaking the think that lets you choose the desktop manager because I had installed many trying them out.

There is an installer now, but I've never used it. A manual install takes about 15 minutes, and you get to choose how simple or difficult you want to make it. That level of control is what appeals to me.