Getting into knife sharpening

[mretzloff]

I have decided that I would like to take the time and money to learn how to sharpen knives. I have a Norton 4000/8000 combination stone.

What else do I need? I am assuming I would need a lapping plate, a coarse stone, and a finer one.

Also, with which knives should I start? Could I just go to Walmart, get a $10 knife, and try sharpening it?

 

[ouch]

A stone fixer will only run twenty dollars or so, and you'll need it if you plan on using those stones for your razors. Before you get a coarse stone, try your hand at a medium stone in the 1K range. If your knife is dull, it may take some time to get it right, but it's time well spent as it will teach you the technique you'll require to use a truly coarse stone.

May as well sharpen the knives you already have.

 

[Blue58]

another choice is to find a few blue light specials on ebay and use those for practice ... if you mess those up its no loss to anyone. sometimes you can find a lot for sale on ebay where you get like 10 knives for $3 or something like that. they are all junk but it gives you something to use for practice.

 

[mmadha]

Good luck in honing, no pun intended, your craft. I have ventured into knife sharpening very unsuccessfully, so I wish you the best of luck. You may want to check out the DVDs and tips on this site: http://www.cartercutlery.com/

 

[Jim]

Good luck in honing, no pun intended, your craft. I have ventured into knife sharpening very unsuccessfully, so I wish you the best of luck. You may want to check out the DVDs and tips on this site: http://www.cartercutlery.com/

What problems did you run into? Perhaps we can sort them out with you?

 

[mretzloff]

A stone fixer will only run twenty dollars or so, and you'll need it if you plan on using those stones for your razors. Before you get a coarse stone, try your hand at a medium stone in the 1K range. If your knife is dull, it may take some time to get it right, but it's time well spent as it will teach you the technique you'll require to use a truly coarse stone.

May as well sharpen the knives you already have.

Are 1000, 4000, and 8000 grit enough? Do knives need to be sharpened at any higher grit? Are all brands pretty much equal or are there any I should look at?

Thank you.

Good luck in honing, no pun intended, your craft. I have ventured into knife sharpening very unsuccessfully, so I wish you the best of luck. You may want to check out the DVDs and tips on this site: http://www.cartercutlery.com/

What problems did you run into? Perhaps we can sort them out with you?

This is what I love about Badger & Blade

 

[JBroida]

Are 1000, 4000, and 8000 grit enough? Do knives need to be sharpened at any higher grit? Are all brands pretty much equal or are there any I should look at?

Really all you NEED is a good 1000 grit stone... higher grits are nice, but not necessary (though i sharpen up to 10,000 regularly and sometimes beyond).

Not all brands are equal though. Nortons are ok at best. My personal preference is the following setup:
Bester 500
Beston 1200
Suehiro Rika 5000
Naniwa Super Stone 10000

I also use a dmt XXC to flatten my stones and a bunch of strops and felt to furthur refine my edge and help remove the burr/wire edge

Dave Martel is having a great sale on the beston 1200 and suehiro rika 5000 right now... you can check it out here:
http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/Sharpening-Stones-s/22.htm

FWIW, you could just get the bester 1200 and suehiro rika 5000 and be set. The finer stones are not necessary (though can sometimes be nice) and the coarser stones are mostly for setting initial bevels and major repairs

-Jon

 

[mretzloff]

and the coarser stones are mostly for setting initial bevels and major repairs

-Jon

Which I will not have to do, unless I do not sharpen my knives for years or damage them, correct?

 

[Scotto]

Since when is B&B about need?

I learned on a King 1k stone. Nice feel, but painfully slow, and dishes like a bastard. It is a decent learners stone. Nowadays I use a 2K Shapton GS, which has pretty poor feedback, but I have gotten used to its quirks, and I generally finish on the Kitayama stone. I use a coarse diamond plate for flattening, and I have a few other stones which I forget at the moment.

I just took advantage of Dave's sale to order the Beston 1200 and the Rika 5k. Again, who said anything about need? I want.

 

[mretzloff]

Since when is B&B about need?

You do have a point there

 

[ouch]

I never tried the Beston 1200, and there are a lot of options in the medium grit range. The aforementioned King 1K is just a bit over $20. As already noted, it's slow. Good for starting out, not so good when you're confident.

I saw the 5K Rika at Jim's house, and I think it's a killer for the price.

Technique trumps tools, so although the Nortons may not be the darlings of the sharpening world, they're good quality stones and I wouldn't think you'd have to replace them.

A note on the Nortons- they differ slightly from the JIS standard in grit, so they are more akin to a 2500/5K. See attached chart, provided by a long time stone nut.
http://members.cox.net/yuzuha/jisgrit1.html

 

[JBroida]

You do have a point there

You can pretty much do everything you will need with a medium grit stone... but as you improve, the coarse stone can be a nice thing to have around.

 

[mretzloff]

You can pretty much do everything you will need with a medium grit stone... but as you improve, the coarse stone can be a nice thing to have around.

How important is finishing the edge on a finer stone? Does it make a difference, the way you can smooth out a straight?

 

[JBroida]

How important is finishing the edge on a finer stone? Does it make a difference, the way you can smooth out a straight?

There's always a balance between smooth and toothy. A lot of it depends on what kind of feel you like with your knives... the rest of the task at hand. Below 5k (for most stones) you get a kind of toothy edge that works great for things like tomatoes, meat, etc. Above 8k (again, depending on the stone still), you get a smooth edge, great for slicing... herbs stay green longer, fish has a nice sheen to the cut surface.

With kitchen knives, people are generally looking for a toothier edge than in straights. On the obsessive side, people go for the 10k plus edges, but many professional chefs (including most i know in Japan) rarely go higher than 6k, most opting to stay at 1k or 3k.

Like i said, a lot about what kind of finish you are getting depends on the stones. For example, Naniwa Choceras have toothier edges at equivalent grits, whereas super stones have smoother edges. If you have questions about specific stones, let me know... chances are i've tried it.

 

[mretzloff]

Gentlemen, you have all given me excellent information. Thank you!

 

[Dude123]

Really all you NEED is a good 1000 grit stone... higher grits are nice, but not necessary (though i sharpen up to 10,000 regularly and sometimes beyond).

Not all brands are equal though. Nortons are ok at best. My personal preference is the following setup:
Bester 500
Beston 1200
Suehiro Rika 5000
Naniwa Super Stone 10000

I also use a dmt XXC to flatten my stones and a bunch of strops and felt to furthur refine my edge and help remove the burr/wire edge

Dave Martel is having a great sale on the beston 1200 and suehiro rika 5000 right now... you can check it out here:
http://www.japaneseknifesharpeningstore.com/Sharpening-Stones-s/22.htm

FWIW, you could just get the bester 1200 and suehiro rika 5000 and be set. The finer stones are not necessary (though can sometimes be nice) and the coarser stones are mostly for setting initial bevels and major repairs

-Jon

for some reason this link doesn't work for me, none of the products show up on the page. I'm gonna try and find them through the main site and will report back

It's a no go for me on the site for some reason, in two different browsers and through the link and from the main site. Some products show up, but others like the stones show nothing. hmmm

 

[mmadha]

What problems did you run into? Perhaps we can sort them out with you?

Sorry, I have no intentions in hijacking this thread but since mretzloff kindly offered his assistance, and it is relevant to the original question, I will explain my situation.
Basically, I purchased a Japanese 1000 and 6000 grit water stone hoping to hone my kitchen and pocket knives. I looked on Youtube for a definitive instructional video but never found one. Essentially, this was the only piece of equipment I bought and I had not interest in using the training wheels of a hone guide. Most of the knives I attempted to sharpen were only dulled by the stone, which was brand new. Obviously, this was an issue of technique, my technique involving pretending I was slicing off a very thin slice of the stone. Maybe I was simply impatient, as a wetshaver that understands patience and cutting angles, I have no doubt mretzloff that you will prove more successful than I in this task.

 

[jag613]

check out the "in the kitchen forum" at knifeforum.com they are your japanese knife inthusiasts

 

[JBroida]

for some reason this link doesn't work for me, none of the products show up on the page. I'm gonna try and find them through the main site and will report back

It's a no go for me on the site for some reason, in two different browsers and through the link and from the main site. Some products show up, but others like the stones show nothing. hmmm

Actually, i think he sold out already... sorry. I normally offer those, but i am currently sold out as well.

 

[JBroida]

Sorry, I have no intentions in hijacking this thread but since mretzloff kindly offered his assistance, and it is relevant to the original question, I will explain my situation.
Basically, I purchased a Japanese 1000 and 6000 grit water stone hoping to hone my kitchen and pocket knives. I looked on Youtube for a definitive instructional video but never found one. Essentially, this was the only piece of equipment I bought and I had not interest in using the training wheels of a hone guide. Most of the knives I attempted to sharpen were only dulled by the stone, which was brand new. Obviously, this was an issue of technique, my technique involving pretending I was slicing off a very thin slice of the stone. Maybe I was simply impatient, as a wetshaver that understands patience and cutting angles, I have no doubt mretzloff that you will prove more successful than I in this task.

Here are a few good videos to check out:
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuOlGGl97dI[/YOUTUBE]
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTxFtK4shVY[/YOUTUBE]

Make sure you are forming a burr on each side as you go... and then make sure you properly remove that burr. Be patient... it will come with practice.