Gem Re-Sharpening

[Ron R]

Many of the old wedge razor sets and even some Gem-style SE sets came with a stropping attachment designed like you one you describe; you often find them in boxes of old razor parts and odds-and-ends lots on ebay. Ever Ready made a stropping tool that you threaded the strop through and used in the same way as an Auto Strop or a Wilkinson Empire razor.

Personally, I think taking the effort to sharpen a $.10 carbon blade (cheaper in bulk, and plentiful) is a poor return on your time investment.

Have to agree 100% but sometimes a person has to try even when there is good advice, I had some fun with a curved glass sharpener from the dirty thirties that I tried.

Shaving Oddities!

I was buying some Vintage Gillette razors at a Antique store and the fellow who owned the store was showing me some scuttles when I came across this relic. The sharpener hone was patented in the 1930's(dirty thirties) so that could tell us that blades were expensive and scarce for folks who had...

www.badgerandblade.com

Have some great shaves!

 

[DBBockius]

A big part of my motivation with this is I like "playing" with stuff and figuring out how to make kinda random ideas work

While 10 cents makes it easy to replace a blade, with respect to messing around sharpening them it also makes the cost of trial and error really cheap too

I really want to find a every ready handle now lol

 

[Ladit]

I just made an account to make this post lol

Ive been thinking of ways to sharpen a gem blade as well, and was wondering if you could take a thin wooden dowel and carve a slot in the middle to hold the end of the blade

It might even be able to be set up where you could rotate the dowel to flip the blade over and avoid rolling the edge on the blade

Anyone ever attempt this?

In Germany we take the Stabilo pen with the hex cross section for this task. You tape the blades to the pen and start stropping. Or simply take a window scraper and put some tape on the back to adjust the right angle.

 

[MrFritz]

I would totally consider buying the expensive Oneblade if I could sharpen the "only good for one shave" proprietary Feather GEM like blades. I know there are ways to cut up GEMs and make them fit, but if I could just make the Feathers last at least 3 to 5 shaves I would order it right now. Would the vintage sharpeners do this?

 

[Old Hippie]

Would the vintage sharpeners do this?

There are several potential problems. I say "potential" because I can imagine them, but since blade makers can be a little closemouthed about their processes we don't know if the problems are actually there. We think we see them, but there may be other reasons why similar things are observed. Enough theory. What are some potential problems?

Composition: modern blades are stainless steel for the most part. Depending on the alloy, stainless can vary between being a bugger to sharpen and being a screaming bugger to sharpen. It can be harder than carbon steel, but it can also be "sticky" and tend to clog up abrasives and tools.

Process: a blade goes through a pretty simple process to harden. It's heated up to a specific temperature at which austenite, martensite and other compounds begin to form in the steel, then it is quenched to freeze the austenite and martensite in place, then the steel is reheated to a lower temperature to allow the stresses created by crashing the temp in the quench to release. This also softens the hardness a little and allows for more or less resilience in the steel. Careful process management can take advantage of the possibilities that are part of the process.

Edge Treatment: AccuTek is the company that makes Personna blades, including the Personna Gem PTFE coated blades. They use a "three facet" grind on the edge, which they achieve consistently with machines. I haven't discovered their faceting angles yet, but I'm working on it. The point is, however, that they can achieve high degrees of accuracy and replicability using the equipment they have. Vintage sharpening machines that I've seen aren't capable of a three facet grind. They simply slap the blade against an abrasive surface and hope that an edge eventually develops.

I'll stop with those three; there are others.

So you're up against a steel that "doesn't want to" be sharpened; that's hard enough out of the box that it takes a lot of work to bring up any edge; with an edge geometry that is difficult-to-impossible to replicate at home depending on how much accuracy you can bring to it. A strip of tape on the spine of a Gem blade is not sufficient accuracy.

Modern blades CAN be honed. With sufficient effort they can even be honed to a useful edge. It requires considerable skill, patience and dedication to do it -- which is not a criticism. Some people are willing to do it just to see what happens. But unless something really unlikely like a pandemic happens that completely sinks the supply chain, we won't really need to know how to do it because we can just go buy another hundred blades for twenty bucks.

All of which is not to say don't do it. Building skill is always good, even if you don't really need that skill. It's good practice.

O.H.

 

[thombrogan]

There's a guy in Canada that's a wizard at sharpening with jigs to a high level of sharpness:

Brent Beach -- Home page

Can you write to the manufacturers of your favorite GEM blades for their recommended angles? If not, choose judiciously.

 

[thombrogan]

@Old Hippie, did Brent Beach’s page inspire you to make some angled jigs for your Gems and start gawking 0.1micron polycrystalline diamond products for saving money?

 

[Old Hippie]

@Old Hippie, did Brent Beach’s page inspire you to make some angled jigs for your Gems and start gawking 0.1micron polycrystalline diamond products for saving money?

Heh. I'm looking at several hundred dollars worth of razors and reflecting on how much money one can save by taking up wet shaving. I'm (mostly) amused, and I could stick the whole mess into a Dopp kit and still close the zipper.

Not like collecting motorcycles for pricey, I'll say that, but when I bought a motorcycle for $50 I thought I was gettin' a deal instead of paying list price. [snort]

To your question: not yet. But there's hope. I need to spend more time with it.

O.H.

 

[thombrogan]

@Old Hippie, now that much of the known world has a canceled social calendar, any GEM jigs fabricated and tried? Any homemade laser pointer goniometers set up to measure stock angles?

 

[camoloc]

just use this....

lol

camo

 

[Old Hippie]

@Old Hippie, now that much of the known world has a canceled social calendar, any GEM jigs fabricated and tried? Any homemade laser pointer goniometers set up to measure stock angles?

Well...no. The social calendar may be cancelled but the work calendar isn't! It's still on my mind, just kinda farther back...

O.H.

 

[Lord Fatboy]

just use this....

View attachment 1082847

lol

camo

After experimentation, I'm not entirely convinced that the handles are suitable for (my way of) honing on stones.
I think they were probably made for stropping on pastes and leather.
With the old chubby-back blades I like to cut a new bevel into them and work from there. Not the "authentic" experience but heigh-ho.

 

[thombrogan]

I tried stropping a GEM blade on wood with diamond paste recently. Couldn’t tell if the edge improved or not with the Carter three finger test and did not want to double-check with my face.

Very thankful the pricey Personna PTFE version is $18-27usd for 100.

 

[salish]

I occasionally shave with an SE razor using the Persona GEM PTFE blades. I have one of these Kriss Kross honing machines and the SE blades do fit into the honing arm, but I'm not sure if the angle of the blade to the disc is optimal. I've screwed around with it just for demonstration purposes, but I'll give it some play time and see if it works.

 

[Haiku]

What a great project to try! I've subscribed to this thread.

 

[str8six]

Personally, I think taking the effort to sharpen a $.10 carbon blade (cheaper in bulk, and plentiful) is a poor return on your time investment.

I think if someone comes up with a jig that lets me use my JNAT, coticule and thuri edges in my MMOC without having to go hunting for a lather catcher and defacing the dwindling supply of wedge blades with my attempts to hone them that it was very worthwhile indeed and I would be extremely grateful. Plus I'd like to do them in batches so I'd want a 7 day set of wedges. Alas I don't use safety razors quite often enough to motivate myself to do this anytime soon (same reason I don't shell out for the lather catcher) but I'm certainly watching with interest in hope someone takes the initiative!

 

[RenoRichard]

I think if someone comes up with a jig that lets me use my JNAT, coticule and thuri edges in my MMOC without having to go hunting for a lather catcher and defacing the dwindling supply of wedge blades with my attempts to hone them that it was very worthwhile indeed and I would be extremely grateful. Plus I'd like to do them in batches so I'd want a 7 day set of wedges. Alas I don't use safety razors quite often enough to motivate myself to do this anytime soon (same reason I don't shell out for the lather catcher) but I'm certainly watching with interest in hope someone takes the initiative!

@str8six

I'm not sure if it will work, but somewhere around here I have a Stag Sharpener that may do it. These holders are from maybe 1910s or 1920s? The bevel angle from the holder likely won't match the Gem SE production final bevel angle, since they are 3 angled edges, but it might just be able to give it a serviceable edge. I wasn't quite clear on why you would want to re-sharpen Gem type blades.

But, if I have time over the weekend I'll look for the Stag, take a blade and give it a go. Perhaps, a CVS carbon SE blade might be a good one to try.

Here's a picture from an Etsy listing of what one of these Stag holders look like; mine is a little different as I recall, but you'll get the idea. I think the blade is held in place by pressure from the two end pieces.

 

[str8six]

I wasn't quite clear on why you would want to re-sharpen Gem type blades.

Because I was curious what my MMOC would be like with a JNAT or coticule edged blade but not curious enough to splash out for a lather catcher and wedge blade in good condition because I almost always use straight razors. But if there was a 3d printed jig I could buy for $15 or something and people thought the result was useful I'd probably give it a go.

That Stag looks intriguing, let us know how your experiments go if you do that. And ya, carbon steel should be easier.

I'm not entirely convinced that the handles are suitable for (my way of) honing on stones.

So even if I did get the lather catchers it'd be a pain anyway. Hm.

 

[RenoRichard]

Okay, I took a SE carbon Gem blade, blunted it on glass and re-sharpened it as follows:

Reset the bevel on well worn DMT EF. I used a layer of rtape on the spine to keep it from sliding in the Stag's jaws.

Then I went on a coticule with dilution until the edge started looking good. The photo is in the middle of dilution when I took a break.

Finally I finished on a diamond pasted balsa strop.

After that I gave it a test as part of my shave. As a proof on concept, yes these blades can be re-sharpened. But, the pass I got was not really good. It felt tuggy and uncomfortable. Sort of like when you get a razor from someone that tells you it's shave ready, when it's really not.

The Stag worked fine and I think with more than the 30 minutes I spent on the stones you could actually coax up a good edge. Then I asked myself why? For such an inexpensive blade, as an experiment sure, but I replaced the carbon blade with a Gem PTFE on its fifth shave after a pass and it was far smoother. I suppose for a Rolls Razor blade or other wedge blade no longer made it would be worthwhile, otherwise not again for me.

Have a great weekend!

 

[str8six]

Okay, I took a SE carbon Gem blade, blunted it on glass and re-sharpened it as follows

Thanks much, really interesting to hear how that experiment went! I suppose it's not that surprising though as coti edges are pretty mellow (though you did use paste) and going straight from bevel set on a DMT to a gradual coti dilution takes a serious amount of laps, at least in my limited experience having only ever attempted something like that once or twice before deciding that I like my synth progression just fine.

Since you have the Stag around anyhow, if you'd be curious in trying a (much quicker?) followup after that somewhat disappointing experience: I'd be curious to hear what the edge is like if you don't kill the factory edge and just do a couple dozen laps on a thuri or jnat then strop on clean leather. Maybe put a bit of sharpie on one of the corners to see if the angle is enough to hit the edge since it wouldn't be nearly as obvious as when setting a whole new bevel.