Frown Creation | Frown Fix | School Me

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I knew going into this honing that the toe had some previous work done (before it came to me) which had left the bevel exposure sorta large and funny looking. I think this photo shows what I mean (this is post honing, but the toe looks much the same).

However, if there was a frown before I began honing today I missed it. Here's a link to the vendor's photos on eBay. I think there was already a frown, but now it's my problem even if I didn't create it.

Just a few more photos to illustrate...




All of these photos can be enlarged by clicking on them.

I'm not 1000% sure of it, but I'm pretty sure there is a little frown at the toe of the razor. I'm afraid it's of my making (but I'm not sure).

This razor was honed today on my newly lapped Washita as a first stage to the process. I was going after a couple or three little chips. The biggest was in the heel area. Before honing I'd lapped one side of the Washita to 600 grit and the other side to 300 grit. Both sides were used to hone this Kinfolks Blue Steel Special razor.

On the Washita I used straight Ballistol. It seemed perfect for the stone. The Washita didn't impress me as being fast (hardly), but it has a wonderful feel and it seems to have a very large range.

I then went to the Double Convex Ark 8x3 and used both sides.

My final stone was my new Norton white translucent convex 8x3. I enjoyed using the stone; it has a great feel. It's super smooth feeling and a good bit different from the black translucent convex stone.

On the three convex stones I used Ballistol and water mixed. I had no trouble seeing the Ballistol undercut and such on the white Norton (the two white colors are different enough to make them visually not confusing).

I've gotta figure out what to do next.

• Is a frown like this likely to cut me?
• What's the best way to get rid of the frown?

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[stone and strop]

I can sure see the frown.
It won't cut you but it might "pull" when shaving.
It doesn't really seem like the spine is warn right thin at the toe so it may be from not having the toe on the stone while honing then someone tried to fix it. Nobody knows really.
I would get rid of it for sure. If there are no other issues that show it will come back soon then I would flatten the edge on sandpaper and a flat surface going at a 45 degree angle till its straight.
Then, set a new bevel and move forward.This will take some time.

 

[bluesman 7]

People commonly don't seem to follow me when I say this, but a frown can often have it's roots in the hollow grind! Not anything that you did wrong. I've seen razors with a frown that the owner breadknifed to get rid of the frown, then on further honing the frown returned, because IME the frown had it's roots in the hollow. If the bevel reveal is smaller in the frown area, that should be a clue.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

It's not news that I should have a coarse stone. I like the Chosera 1K just fine for what it is, but I think I'm going to have to get a Chosera 400 (0.4K).

I've gotten enough chips out of eBay specials to appreciate a chip free, straight edge.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[bluesman 7]

I like the Chosera 1K just fine for what it is, but I think I'm going to have to get a Chosera 400 (0.4K).

I've gotten enough chips out of eBay specials to appreciate a chip free, straight edge.

Happy shaves,

Jim

I really like my Chosera 600. Just sayin'.

 

[Steve56]

With all wonkiness, you have two choices, brute force it out (more below) or hone it the way that created the wonkiness.

Now, if you have a frown from bad honing over decades, you CAN hone that frown away if you want to, the bottom of the new bevel will be at the very top of the frown. But you may not want to if that’s someones heirloom razors that belonged to their grandfather, and you give it back looking much narrower.

if the razor has been overground by master Solingen honers, you cannot usually hone that out because the hollow is overground far up the blade. On a flat hone, you’ll never hit the overground area.

You could use a convex hone, a narrow hone, or you could just use the corner of a hone that you already have to get into the frown or overground area.

 

[Scarry Knight]

People commonly don't seem to follow me when I say this, but a frown can often have it's roots in the hollow grind! Not anything that you did wrong. I've seen razors with a frown that the owner breadknifed to get rid of the frown, then on further honing the frown returned, because IME the frown had it's roots in the hollow. If the bevel reveal is smaller in the frown area, that should be a clue.

I hear you, follow what you mean, and appreciate the post. Always glad to learn something new. Thanks much!

 

[Scarry Knight]

With all wonkiness, you have two choices, brute force it out (more below) or hone it the way that created the wonkiness.

Now, if you have a frown from bad honing over decades, you CAN hone that frown away if you want to, the bottom of the new bevel will be at the very top of the frown. But you may not want to if that’s someones heirloom razors that belonged to their grandfather, and you give it back looking much narrower.

if the razor has been overground by master Solingen honers, you cannot usually hone that out because the hollow is overground far up the blade. On a flat hone, you’ll never hit the overground area.

You could use a convex hone, a narrow hone, or you could just use the corner of a hone that you already have to get into the frown or overground area.

Your’s also, very helpful. Thanks!

 

[Namkcakram]

You’ve got convex hones, just don’t worry about it and be conscious to focus on bringing it back in line at the toe over time.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

You’ve got convex hones, just don’t worry about it and be conscious to focus on bringing it back in line at the toe over time.

You wouldn't be worried about it cutting into my skin?

 

[bluesman 7]

Why would Nam be worried about your skin? JK

Seraphim once posited that a smile tended to stretch the skin while a frown tended to gather skin. I don't know if this would really be noticed at the radii of the smiles and frowns that we are using, but it's an interesting thought.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Why would Nam be worried about your skin? JK

Good point.

Seraphim once posited that a smile tended to stretch the skin while a frown tended to gather skin. I don't know if this would really be noticed at the radii of the smiles and frowns that we are using, but it's an interesting thought.

Makes sense.

 

[stone and strop]

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Thanks. Interesting book?

 

[stone and strop]

For me it is.


For you.....

In my opinion, this book was a waste of my money,

 

[Namkcakram]

As highlighted I’m not quite as concerned about other people’s faces hahaha, BUT no I wouldn’t concern myself with this one. I’d be sure to do one clean drag with the point of the blade on the finish stone to be sure there’s not a scalpel point hanging out there with increased pressure against your skin, but other than the point itself I don’t think a minor frown is a problem so long as you can hone the entire bevel.

Long term generally you want to migrate towards a very slight smile, which you can accomplish any number of ways with your convex stone. With a flat stone it’s a pretty simple matter of doing an X stroke beginning heel slightly leading and running in a windshield wiping motion ending slightly toe leading.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

For me it is.


For you.....

Ah, it one I already have. I'll have to find it and read that section sometime.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

As highlighted I’m not quite as concerned about other people’s faces hahaha, BUT no I wouldn’t concern myself with this one. I’d be sure to do one clean drag with the point of the blade on the finish stone to be sure there’s not a scalpel point hanging out there with increased pressure against your skin, but other than the point itself I don’t think a minor frown is a problem so long as you can hone the entire bevel.

Long term generally you want to migrate towards a very slight smile, which you can accomplish any number of ways with your convex stone. With a flat stone it’s a pretty simple matter of doing an X stroke beginning heel slightly leading and running in a windshield wiping motion ending slightly toe leading.

Thanks.

 

[Namkcakram]

I’d bet if you take it to the Washita (flat?). And do those x strokes as half strokes you could probably take some of it down pretty quickly if that’s how you wanted to handle it.

If you’re not too concerned and you want to make it last, you can just stick with the DCA and consciously focus a bit more in that area with either pressure or time on the stone and it’ll work itself out eventually.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I’d bet if you take it to the Washita (flat?). And do those x strokes as half strokes you could probably take some of it down pretty quickly if that’s how you wanted to handle it.

If you’re not too concerned and you want to make it last, you can just stick with the DCA and consciously focus a bit more in that area with either pressure or time on the stone and it’ll work itself out eventually.

Thanks. It's very helpful to get various viewpoints about it. You gentlemen are giving me just what I hoped for when I began this thread.