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Friction Testing with Painter's and UHMW Tape on Smooth Chrome Top Cap

I understand that it's complicated - I just said 'that much', unless you're using pressure. Once you add pressure, all bets are off!
 
I understand that it's complicated - I just said 'that much', unless you're using pressure. Once you add pressure, all bets are off!

I hear you. It's hard, though, to quantify how much pressure we each use. I used more pressure with the PAA DOC Satin, and I knew it, because of how inefficient it is. Now, I'm using what I think is a fine, smaller amount of pressure with the EJ Kelvin, but I'm still getting overall friction compared to what I was used to.
 
I thought about putting together a jig, but if I did that, I'd have to actually get something to measure inch pounds with just the jig, then jig with razor, and that started to get silly. Oh - and I won't be putting a blade in any of them. At least, not until after the test.
 
I thought about putting together a jig, but if I did that, I'd have to actually get something to measure inch pounds with just the jig, then jig with razor, and that started to get silly. Oh - and I won't be putting a blade in any of them. At least, not until after the test.

That would be complicated and unnecessary, right? Wouldn't the weight of the razor supply an appropriate amount of pressure? (You're talking about dragging the same razor at the same angle, right?)
 
As soon as you build a jig to maintain the right angle, the jig itself will have friction against a surface, and that has to be compensated for. So I'll just do it with my hand and just do as good of a job as I can. If I can't really tell a difference, that'll tell us something right there. That it's not worth worrying about.
 
As soon as you build a jig to maintain the right angle, the jig itself will have friction against a surface, and that has to be compensated for. So I'll just do it with my hand and just do as good of a job as I can. If I can't really tell a difference, that'll tell us something right there. That it's not worth worrying about.

Exactly. Dragging the razor with your hand, trying to maintain the same angle, should be good enough. That's what I did when I tested razors against my skin.
 
I hope you don't mind me commenting at this late of a date.

I too have a chrome DE89, and believe I feel a bit of what you describe, though I'm not sure because I don't knowingly ride the top cap.

As I followed your travails in this thread, the obvious simple brute solution would seem to be to roughen-up the cap with an abrasive, such as sandpaper or emery paper. Of course that would ruin the finish. And I suspect the chrome plating is very thin, so the Zamak would be exposed. Oh well. I suppose there's also the possibility of refinishing the cap, if you wanted to make a project out of this! Or even trying another cap, but then that would change the geometry and shaving characteristics.

FWIW, I came into this thread off the earlier thread linked in your OP. I was fascinated by your diagnosing the problem and your proposed solution, but then the thread ended. So via your profile, I looked up if you started any newer threads, and by luck found this one. So if you desire others to find the result of your experiment in this thread, you can always link to it in the old thread. Not that I'm attempting to tell you what to do.

Anyway, thanks for all the great work you've done on your other (blade) projects. Yes, I'm a "numbers" guy myself, and have an appreciation for this type of work.
 
I hope you don't mind me commenting at this late of a date.

I too have a chrome DE89, and believe I feel a bit of what you describe, though I'm not sure because I don't knowingly ride the top cap.

As I followed your travails in this thread, the obvious simple brute solution would seem to be to roughen-up the cap with an abrasive, such as sandpaper or emery paper. Of course that would ruin the finish. And I suspect the chrome plating is very thin, so the Zamak would be exposed. Oh well. I suppose there's also the possibility of refinishing the cap, if you wanted to make a project out of this! Or even trying another cap, but then that would change the geometry and shaving characteristics.

FWIW, I came into this thread off the earlier thread linked in your OP. I was fascinated by your diagnosing the problem and your proposed solution, but then the thread ended. So via your profile, I looked up if you started any newer threads, and by luck found this one. So if you desire others to find the result of your experiment in this thread, you can always link to it in the old thread. Not that I'm attempting to tell you what to do.

Anyway, thanks for all the great work you've done on your other (blade) projects. Yes, I'm a "numbers" guy myself, and have an appreciation for this type of work.

I'm glad that you found this thread, @Capisco Capisce! Yeah, I don't usually---maybe never---go back to older threads and link forward because when I post a new thread with a big write-up, I don't want people to reply in the old threads. They'd get pushed to the top of the list and it could cause confusion. Anyway, it's good that you found this thread. I applaud your tenacity! :001_smile

I'm still using the EJ Kelvin (with the EJ DE89 head), but I'm moving towards switching to the Bevel razor that's been sitting on my shelf for months. I have to finish my thorough, detailed review of the EJ Kelvin before I allow myself to move on. You are right that scratching up the top cap could reduce friction, but you are also right that I could ruin the finish. I'll leave the razor alone which will help with revisiting it in the future, if I go there. I've been using the razor for a long time now with its natural angle, neither riding the cap (shallow-angle shaving) nor riding the guard (steep-angle shaving). The friction issue is still there, but at least I have good soap and make better lather than I used to. I'm ready, though, to move on to another razor.

Thanks for your appreciation of my work here. Blade measurements and surveys have been on hold for a long time now, but I'll get back to that sometime. Lately, I've been playing catch-up with reviews and other measurements. The EJ Kelvin review and analysis is coming soon. Have you seen my optimum lather table? That's an ongoing study that I add to a little bit with every shave. L&L Grooming will be added soon as I finish up its optimization.
 
Getting alum or styptic pencil on your skin while shaving causes major friction. Use this stuff AFTER your finished shaving.
 
I encountered the same problem as the OP.
My solution was to use a really heavy handle on my razor.
I had been a "steep angle" shaver for many months.
ATT razors forced me to learn the shallow angle/ride the cap method.
I was getting fantastic shaves.
I switched back to my "shiny razors" using the shallow angle.
The heads were sticking and skipping during my shave.
I put a very heavy handle on my razor and it seems to works.
It is not really adding pressure to my shave but seems to add some force to my razor stroke.
 
I encountered the same problem as the OP.
My solution was to use a really heavy handle on my razor.
I had been a "steep angle" shaver for many months.
ATT razors forced me to learn the shallow angle/ride the cap method.
I was getting fantastic shaves.
I switched back to my "shiny razors" using the shallow angle.
The heads were sticking and skipping during my shave.
I put a very heavy handle on my razor and it seems to works.
It is not really adding pressure to my shave but seems to add some force to my razor stroke.

Thanks for sharing. A heavy handle makes sense to combat the friction. What you experience makes sense. The friction is still there, but a heavy handle increases the mass and rotational inertia of the razor, so it reduces the translational and rotational acceleration, which includes sticking and skipping, from the frictional forces. The heavier handle makes a smoother ride.
 
Thanks for sharing. A heavy handle makes sense to combat the friction. What you experience makes sense. The friction is still there, but a heavy handle increases the mass and rotational inertia of the razor, so it reduces the translational and rotational acceleration, which includes sticking and skipping, from the frictional forces. The heavier handle makes a smoother ride.

I love this forum. I just love it. Where else in all creation could I read that a heavy handle on a razor "increases the mass and rotational inertia of the razor, so it reduces the translational and rotational acceleration"? Answer: nowhere. Nowhere on the planet. Never in the past history of human kind. Here and only here. And it's a tribute to my particular craziness that I read a sentence like that, and think that I'm in the right place.
 
The negative blade exposure might be compensated by using a shim.

For me it is the DE89's safety bar that causes most friction, supported by its shape. It just wants to dig into my skin and stick to it, it feels like shaving with a hard rubber razor. What comes to my mind is to apply some matte metallic paint to the top cap and safety bar. Some car/bike enthusiasts may know what product could be used. Another idea would be to stop cleaning the razor - let the residue take care of the smooth finish! Not recommended though due to potentional corrosion and certain ugliness. :)
 
I love this forum. I just love it. Where else in all creation could I read that a heavy handle on a razor "increases the mass and rotational inertia of the razor, so it reduces the translational and rotational acceleration"? Answer: nowhere. Nowhere on the planet. Never in the past history of human kind. Here and only here. And it's a tribute to my particular craziness that I read a sentence like that, and think that I'm in the right place.

+1 :biggrin1:
 
For me it is the DE89's safety bar that causes most friction, supported by its shape. It just wants to dig into my skin and stick to it, it feels like shaving with a hard rubber razor. What comes to my mind is to apply some matte metallic paint to the top cap and safety bar. Some car/bike enthusiasts may know what product could be used. Another idea would be to stop cleaning the razor - let the residue take care of the smooth finish! Not recommended though due to potentional corrosion and certain ugliness. :)

What you said about the DE89's scalloped safety bar digging into your skin is interesting. Also, your point about matte metallic paint could work. Then again, whenever I let residue build up, it seems to increase friction or at least not decrease friction.
 
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