Freshly roasted coffee - how fresh is good enough?

[MurderousCrow]

For those who regularly make espresso....or for those who home roast or buy from a coffee specialty retailer, how fresh do you like your coffee? All brewing methods benefit from freshly roasted coffee, but espresso brewing especially so. Coffee beans don't spoil in the traditional sense but slowly dry out and loose their aromatics. Becoming bland.

For years I have been brewing coffee less than 3-4 weeks old but today I made an espresso from 2 month old coffee (roasted 8.5 weeks ago). I could tell it had started to dry out a little but it held up quite well. It made me rethink the idea that in order to drink espresso at home and not live in a big city one needed to home roast. That one could buy freshly roasted coffee in bulk (to save shipping costs) about every 6-8 weeks and enjoy it nearly as much as the person drinking 10 day old coffee. What has been your experience?

So as above I'm soon to be within grasping distance of truly great espresso at home. Exciting times, and naturally some learning is required - my espresso knowledge is a little old and patchy, and there's no point doing it by halves.

Among the research into optimal / ballpark brew ratios and extraction times for whatever roast level (I enjoy good dark roasts occasionally in addition to the lighter more floral / fruity roasts I usually drink), I found an article that would seem to answer your question almost exactly. And it confirms the point made by @Teryaki about freshness being relative.

'For coffee lovers seeking the most flavor, you should aim to balance the degassing of CO2 with the loss of important aromatics. For darker roasted coffees, this period usually starts after the first few days after roasting... For lighter roasted coffees, it's a good idea to wait a little longer before diving in, say 5-10 days. This is because dark roast coffees are more porous than light roast after spending more time in the roaster.'

And a really important insight from one roaster at the end of the article who'd done some blind taste testing on coffees of varying ages:

'...the results were startling and made me reconsider my definition of peak freshness. As expected, the coffees that were in the 7-21 day range were delicious. The real surprise, however, were the coffees at a month, 2 months+. Only, after about 3 months did we notice a truly discernible loss of what I would call vibrancy. The coffees still tasted just fine, but had lost the higher acid notes that constitute a balanced cup. Hell, the 6-month tasted fine too. It wasn't until the year and a half coffee that it was completely evident that the coffee was old. There was no bloom on the brew and the taste, while still oddly sweet, was lifeless. I think it's high time to start reevaluating the lifespan and sweet spot of coffee. We've had espresso in house that has been as far off roast as 27 days and it was still phenomenal. Different, but great. So, against our better judgment, we didn't pull it. Then, at 28 days it simply fell apart.'

I am probably a bit old-school in that I adore good mouthfeel, and appreciate whatever flavours arrive with that, so long as they're not overwhelming or unpleasantly sour / bitter. So I do like a cup bursting with crema. However knowledge is power and I'm looking forward with an open mind to trying lighter roasted coffees that are 'rested' for much longer. Interesting stuff!

Is Your Coffee Too Fresh?

Is it possible that your beans are TOO close to the roast date? Read on to discover the sweet spot for brewing your coffee beans.

clivecoffee.com

@naughtilus I don't have a clue I'm afraid. But it looks like a tank! Most cafe grinders were made to very high spec & build quality in Italy, sometimes unbranded or with little-used names but made by one of the big factories. So despite an obviously tough existence so far it might still grind very well. Are you looking to buy it?

 

[naughtilus]

I don't have a clue I'm afraid. But it looks like a tank! Most cafe grinders were made to very high spec & build quality in Italy, sometimes unbranded or with little-used names but made by one of the big factories. So despite an obviously tough existence so far it might still grind very well. Are you looking to buy it?

I'm guessing it's a Faema, it has that look.

Not looking to buy but it showed up in my local ads and I was wondering what the heck is it. Cafes and restaurants open and close constantly so I see these old Italian commercial grinders for sale dirt cheap quite often. If I got it I'd be tempted to get it powdercoated Lamborghini pearl yellow instead of the gray. Because... I dunno

 

[MurderousCrow]

If I got it I'd be tempted to get it powdercoated Lamborghini pearl yellow instead of the gray. Because... I dunno

Do it - what a cool resto that would be! Get the hopper and doser plastic cleaned and polished and she'd be, well, still a tank, but a beauty too. I briefly considered buying one of the larger Eureka grinders when I was still looking. For no particular reason other than the paint job - Kawasaki green... It looked incredible

 

[naughtilus]

Do it - what a cool resto that would be! Get the hopper and doser plastic cleaned and polished and she'd be, well, still a tank, but a beauty too. I briefly considered buying one of the larger Eureka grinders when I was still looking. For no particular reason other than the paint job - Kawasaki green... It looked incredible

I just rang the owner, it has no burrs therefore can't be tested at pickup (buy as is, no returns). Consider quality 65mm burrs cost as much as the whole machine. Hmmm, that put me off a bit.

 

[MurderousCrow]

I just rang the owner, it has no burrs therefore can't be tested at pickup (buy as is, no returns). Consider quality 65mm burrs cost as much as the whole machine. Hmmm, that put me off a bit.

Not worth the risk or expense then, ah well!

 

[naughtilus]

And he has no clue what brand it is.... oh well.

 

[MntnMan62]

I don't understand what you say here:

"the lighter you roast, the longer your coffee should last at peak flavor."

To me that's a relative comparison based on a false premise. Surely the roaster picks a lighter or darker roast according to a. what's most suitable for that particular bean and b. personal preference? Yes, I accept your logic that the flavours of a lighter roast may last relatively longer than the same bean roasted darker; but what's the point of longevity of flavour, if that flavour is not what the roaster or consumer wants?

I'm genuinely not being challenging for the sake of it: when I bought my Silvia years ago I did all the reading on the forums and websites, bought the right kit, used and played with far better kit, and struck up friendships with people who run (very) successful cafes and roasteries. I try to follow this received wisdom, and I've been complimented on what I do by people who know far better than me.

Again, it's really subjective but when I was regularly making espresso for the sake of espresso (as opposed to a shot for a long black or Americano), I reliably found that freshly roasted beans would tail off in terms of crema, flavour and mouthfeel within two weeks. For other drinks, it mattered far less and I'd happily use beans over a month old, just upping the dose to compensate for the dreadful grinder I had.

I made the point above that perhaps, with a superior grinder and finer control of grind and dose, I may have continued to enjoy my espressos for longer. But, that would have surely involved manipulating variables well outside the 'normal' parameters of espresso making. I don't know, I'm certainly not an expert. But if you have the knowledge on this, it would be great for you to take the time to explain exactly why we're all simply wrong - I don't feel your comparison holds much water but accept I could be misunderstanding your point.

ETA: also not sure what you're trying to convey in your pic. But, nice machine.

I agree with this. There is definitely some science behind the subject of roasting, off gassing, grinding and age of beans but there are so many factors that come into play that relative is the perfect word for it.

 

[Nubo]

To me the best part of home-roasting is you get to experience the changes in flavor of a roast from day 1 to however long it lasts. I equate it to having a case of wine and opening a bottle every year or two to see how it's aging. Except you get to experience the entire progression in a matter of days to weeks instead of years to decades. Then you can adjust your roast technique and off to another great experiment.

 

[MntnMan62]

To me the best part of home-roasting is you get to experience the changes in flavor of a roast from day 1 to however long it lasts. I equate it to having a case of wine and opening a bottle every year or two to see how it's aging. Except you get to experience the entire progression in a matter of days to weeks instead of years to decades. Then you can adjust your roast technique and off to another great experiment.

My pea sized brain can't wrap itself around the process. Just too much for me to take on. I'll leave the roasting to those who know better. And when I find the roasted bean that hits all the notes for me, I'll stick with it.

 

[Teryaki]

Hey guys! It’s a been a while and you covered some solid ground while I’ve been gone. Sorry to hear about that grinder in need of burrs!

To me the best part of home-roasting is you get to experience the changes in flavor of a roast from day 1 to however long it lasts. I equate it to having a case of wine and opening a bottle every year or two to see how it's aging. Except you get to experience the entire progression in a matter of days to weeks instead of years to decades. Then you can adjust your roast technique and off to another great experiment.

I love your thought process here! I personally don’t roast at home because I like reproducibility and it’s quite a challenge to do without putting some decent money into a setup, so like @MntnMan62 I leave it to the professionals, some of which I have the privilege of calling my friends. Your parallel to wine is an excellent point and you can do a few things to alter it as well, vacuum seal and freezing the coffee in a deep freezer is one way to preserve that peak flavor indefinitely, or simply vacuum sealing to slow the aging process so you have time to keep up with all the coffee! Do you have some roasts that you feel have been some of your personal bests?

 

[Nubo]

...I personally don’t roast at home because I like reproducibility and it’s quite a challenge to do without putting some decent money into a setup, so like @MntnMan62 I leave it to the professionals, some of which I have the privilege of calling my friends. Your parallel to wine is an excellent point and you can do a few things to alter it as well, vacuum seal and freezing the coffee in a deep freezer is one way to preserve that peak flavor indefinitely, or simply vacuum sealing to slow the aging process so you have time to keep up with all the coffee! Do you have some roasts that you feel have been some of your personal bests?

So far I haven't put much money into roasting equipment. The only dedicated hardware I have at the moment is a Victorio popcorn popper. Under $50 and roasts a goodly size batch; I usually use 20 oz of green beans. I pour the hot beans between two mixing bowls to cool and remove chaff, pour onto a cookie sheet to finish cooling and then it's into the grinder. The Victorio has a heavy stainless bottom which gives the option to roast on a stove top, or outdoors on an induction hotplate (keeps roast smoke out of the kitchen).

My best roasts are usually right to the edge of 2nd crack, so perhaps just shy of a "Vienna roast". I love good East African coffees with wine and fruit flavors, but over the years I have gradually realized I have my most consistently good results with Guatamalan coffees.

 

[Nubo]

My pea sized brain can't wrap itself around the process. Just too much for me to take on. I'll leave the roasting to those who know better. And when I find the roasted bean that hits all the notes for me, I'll stick with it.

It can be intimidating the first couple of times but it's really not that complex. You go by time, smell and (most importantly) sound. The beans actually "tell" you the roast state quite unmistakably -- there are two different "songs" they sing along the way. After a few roasts and adjustments it becomes second nature.