Four Roses Bourbon Small Batch Select--thoughts

[ErkRusselReserve]

I was extremely excited for this bottle when it was announced. NCF Four Roses! Hell yeah!

But, it under-performed for me. especially for the price. My expectations may have been too high.

 

[Lightcs1776]

I was extremely excited for this bottle when it was announced. NCF Four Roses! Hell yeah!

But, it under-performed for me. especially for the price. My expectations may have been too high.

I really like bourbon and the local store that sells high end, or at least high priced bourbon, had Makers Mark in a large tasting event. It included a 24 year old and a 26 YO bottle to taste. I was completely underwhelmed. It was simply to hot at around 112 proof, if I recall correctly. I much prefer my milder 86 proof Evan Williams.

 

[ErkRusselReserve]

I really like bourbon and the local store that sells high end, or at least high priced bourbon, had Makers Mark in a large tasting event. It included a 24 year old and a 26 YO bottle to taste. I was completely underwhelmed. It was simply to hot at around 112 proof, if I recall correctly. I much prefer my milder 86 proof Evan Williams.

24 and 26 YO Makers? At barrel proof? Damn than is a dream.

If it is too hot, you can always add water. It is hard to take it out though.

 

[Lightcs1776]

24 and 26 YO Makers? At barrel proof? Damn than is a dream.

If it is too hot, you can always add water. It is hard to take it out though.

It wasn't an option at the store. I think you would have found yourself disappointed.

 

[The Knize]

I hope i am not repeating myself, but I have not had great experiences with bourbons long in the barrel. Not that I have had a lot of experience. Scotch is different.

Are folks finding the same flavor notes in this Four Seasons expression that I did?

 

[Whisky]

I’m probably an outlier here, but I’ve never been a huge fan of Four Roses. I don’t know what is in their mash bill, but it just always seems rough around the edges, some worse than others.

I hope i am not repeating myself, but I have not had great experiences with bourbons long in the barrel. Not that I have had a lot of experience. Scotch is different.

Are folks finding the same flavor notes in this Four Seasons expression that I did?

Age on Bourbon is hit or miss. I’ve been fortunate enough to sample the different Pappy’s over the years and most of the 23 and 20yr olds that ive tried have been, at least to my tastebuds, over-oaked almost to the point of tasting astringent. The 15yr seems to be the sweet spot. My FIL bought a few bottles of the 20yr old around 1997 and the 23yr old around 2000 before the big Bourbon boom took off. He remembers just walking into a liquor store and buying 2 bottles of each. Those 20yr and 23yr bottles were some of the early production PVW and were sublime. The bottles from the later years are the ones that seem over-oaked to me.

 

[The Knize]

I admit that my experience with Pappy's. much less early Pappy's, is limited or less!

I was thinking maybe 10 years was the sweet spot, but I defer. I like the Whistle Pig rye that is ten yo, 100 proof, and whatever the "10" description they used to cite was.

Do you think over-oaked or over-charred? I wonder if a bourbon/rye were aged in charred oak up to a point and then aged into non-charred oak for an overall long time what the result would be. I have never had an old Scotch that seemed "over-oaked" to me. Or at least that I remember!

 

[Tirvine]

I am not a big Four Roses fan, but of all their expressions, the regular Small Batch is my favorite.

As to aging and ten years being the sweet spot, it depends where those ten years are spent. It is probably great for Kentucky but might be too long in Texas. The amount of char makes a difference, too. Even the mash bill makes a difference. I find wheaters pick up the barrel characteristics more than high rye aged the same length of time, or it may just be that its softer nature lets the char come through. I have never had a super old bourbon or rye I thought was stellar because of its age. It seems that after ten or twelve years you are just paying a lot more for wood.

 

[Whisky]

I admit that my experience with Pappy's. much less early Pappy's, is limited or less!

I was thinking maybe 10 years was the sweet spot, but I defer. I like the Whistle Pig rye that is ten yo, 100 proof, and whatever the "10" description they used to cite was.

Do you think over-oaked or over-charred? I wonder if a bourbon/rye were aged in charred oak up to a point and then aged into non-charred oak for an overall long time what the result would be. I have never had an old Scotch that seemed "over-oaked" to me. Or at least that I remember!

I will start this by saying I am not any sort of distiller but I’ve consumed a lot of Bourbon. My train of thought also keeps getting interrupted by a 2yr that is doing her best to injure herself in the kitchen while I’m trying to can pasta sauce

I think it’s just too long in the barrel. The longer it’s in the barrel the more phenols it’s going to pick up from the wood/char. Phenols are water soluble and adding water to your dram can reduce the effects of an over oaked bourbon, but who wants to put water in a 20-23yr old bourbon.

Scotch is usually aged in used bourbon barrels so a lot of the char/wood flavor has already been extracted from the barrels.

Position in the Rickhouses has a lot to do with it as well due to temperature and humidity fluctuations causing the barrels to swell and contract, absorbing and releasing bourbon into the staves.

If you really want to dive deeply into the bourbon (and Scotch) experience and talk with actual distillers and blenders that make these Whisk(e)y’s I highly recommend going to a Whisky fest at least once. I’ve been 4 times and learn something new each time. It’s a great place to try whisk(e)y’s from around the world that you may not be able to easily find. And yes, there is usually Pappy to taste. Just make sure you spit after tasting. This is me at my 1st Whisky fest when I thought to get the true experience I needed to drink everything I tasted. This is about 20 tastings in.

And a Glinlivet seminar/tasting.

 

[Eshebert]

Not a Four Roses fan, I find a perfume note at the end that I cant get past. I have never experienced what all the fuss is about. For the same price range, give me Old Forester any day.

 

[Tirvine]

I will start this by saying I am not any sort of distiller but I’ve consumed a lot of Bourbon. My train of thought also keeps getting interrupted by a 2yr that is doing her best to injure herself in the kitchen while I’m trying to can pasta sauce

I think it’s just too long in the barrel. The longer it’s in the barrel the more phenols it’s going to pick up from the wood/char. Phenols are water soluble and adding water to your dram can reduce the effects of an over oaked bourbon, but who wants to put water in a 20-23yr old bourbon.

Scotch is usually aged in used bourbon barrels so a lot of the char/wood flavor has already been extracted from the barrels.

Position in the Rickhouses has a lot to do with it as well due to temperature and humidity fluctuations causing the barrels to swell and contract, absorbing and releasing bourbon into the staves.

If you really want to dive deeply into the bourbon (and Scotch) experience and talk with actual distillers and blenders that make these Whisk(e)y’s I highly recommend going to a Whisky fest at least once. I’ve been 4 times and learn something new each time. It’s a great place to try whisk(e)y’s from around the world that you may not be able to easily find. And yes, there is usually Pappy to taste. Just make sure you spit after tasting. This is me at my 1st Whisky fest when I thought to get the true experience I needed to drink everything I tasted. This is about 20 tastings in.
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And a Glinlivet seminar/tasting.
View attachment 1699708

My son in law is a distiller. He makes Milam and Greene. My neighbor and friend two doors down is associated with Garrison Brothers. Needless to say I have picked their brains well and sampled pretty much all of their expressions. My son in law has a pretty large and diverse collection of bourbons and ryes, and I have sampled quite a few. Every time I sip the stuff I pick up something new, but I didn't get into bourbon until the mid-1960s. It was sort of a requirement for living in Virginia then.

 

[Whisky]

My son in law is a distiller. He makes Milam and Greene. My neighbor and friend two doors down is associated with Garrison Brothers. Needless to say I have picked their brains well and sampled pretty much all of their expressions. My son in law has a pretty large and diverse collection of bourbons and ryes, and I have sampled quite a few. Every time I sip the stuff I pick up something new, but I didn't get into bourbon until the mid-1960s. It was sort of a requirement for living in Virginia then.

I’ve got some of the original Garrison Bros. that’s no longer available. At least in the bottling I have. Unfortunately I moved out of Texas right before Texas Bourbon really took off. I still have family in Waco so I stop by Balcones every time I’m in town.

 

[Tirvine]

I’ve got some of the original Garrison Bros. that’s no longer available. At least in the bottling I have. Unfortunately I moved out of Texas right before Texas Bourbon really took off. I still have family in Waco so I stop by Balcones every time I’m in town.

I am a fan of Balcones. Despite less than stellar reviews, I think their pot still is fantastic stuff.