for concealed carry, why do you carry something smaller than a 9mm?

[ctr]

I think a 110 gr. .38 Spl. load would be a more equitable comparison to the 90 gr. .380 ACP. Both more likely to be used in light weight firearms that would be considered as an "either/or" comparison. I'm certainly not putting a 158 gr. .38 load in my Airweight J frame. But point well taken.

Ballistics are not my thing. But the answer is it depends. Federal ammunition at 25 yards for...

148 or 158 gr 38 wadcutters to 380 ball 95 gr or Hydrashoks.
648V/138@25 yards vs 937V/185@25 yards.

Hydrashok 38 Sp 110 gr vs 380 90 gr.
980V/217@25 yards vs 953V/182@25 yards.

380 ball has more velocity/energy at 25 yards. But HydraShok reverse and 38 special has more. I don't shoot +P or magnums and especially don't see the point in 2 - 3 inch barrels commonly found on ccw firearms using these rounds.

Brings up the discussion point of heavier and slower rounds vs faster rounds. My original answer is it depends. Which one stopped the threat.

 

[oc_in_fw]

I was always taught you shoot until you have stopped the threat. That doesn’t necessarily mean the person or persons are dead, you’re just no longer in immediate danger. A .45 to the femur will knock just about anybody not all hopped up on meth out of the fight long enough for me to skedaddle.



Healthcare went south when MBA’s, instead of doctors, started running the hospitals. Electronic records would be a great thing if there was some interaction between the multiple companies that make the systems. If I get hurt in another state it would be great for the ED I’m in to pull up my records but nope, no way unless the two hospitals happen to use the same software and even then it’s not easy.

We may have just pulled off the ultimate thread hijack. Sorry to the OP and other readers.

One could argue that most businesses went down hill due to MBAs. Used to be executives moved up from other ranks in the company. They knew how the company made money because they had performed a job in the company. These people are being replaced by people who have a business degree and nothing more. Saw it happen here. After our CEO (a former instructor pilot) died, a new one was brought in from the outside. Slowly, all the execs that new at least one aspect of the job have been replaced by bean counters who know how to move figures from one column to another, but have no real idea what it is we do here (flight training).

 

[simon1]

I think a 110 gr. .38 Spl. load would be a more equitable comparison to the 90 gr. .380 ACP. Both more likely to be used in light weight firearms that would be considered as an "either/or" comparison. I'm certainly not putting a 158 gr. .38 load in my Airweight J frame. But point well taken.

You are entirely correct and I thought about the weight of the bullet, but didn't go to the trouble of looking up the lighter weights in the .38. But your not going to see a 158 grain in a .380. And expansion and other factors apply.

Bottom line...a. 380 doesn't have the potential of a .38. The platform won't support it.

Hornady 110 grain.

Hornady Critical Defense 38 Special Plus P 110 Grain Specifications:

• Muzzle Velocity: 1090 fps
• Muzzle Energy: 290 ft/lbs
• Ballistic Coefficient: 0.131
• Sectional Density: 0.123

Why no 158 grain in the Airweight? That's what I carry in my 14 ounce Colt snubby.

It is a handful though. I may try some lighter bullets in it, but the old F.B.I load just seems to go with a vintage .38 snubby.

 

[BigFoot]

Why no 158 grain in the Airweight? That's what I carry in my 14 ounce Colt snubby.

It is a handful though. I may try some lighter bullets in it, but the old F.B.I load just seems to go with a vintage .38 snubby.

Or a Ruger SP101.

 

[BigFoot]

replaced by bean counters who know how to move figures from one column to another, but have no real idea what it is we do here (flight training).

That is kind of scary, Owen.

 

[oc_in_fw]

That is kind of scary, Owen.

Not saying all MBAs are bad- it’s a good degree to have. But on the job knowledge can’t be replaced with a piece of paper- even at my level. I only have an associate degree, but I have 24 years of under fire knowledge about simulation. My PhD is experience.

 

[oc_in_fw]

Earlier we were talking about how certain fields tend to attract dark humor. Mine is no exception. We do flight training for business jets- primarily Gulfstreams and Dassault. These are planes that go from $20 million to over 60. Things that affect airlines, like recession, plague, and terrorist attacks don’t hit us very hard. In fact, some of this things increase airplane sales. The rich can’t be bothered to be amongst the hoi polloi.

 

[FarmerTan]

Earlier we were talking about how certain fields tend to attract dark humor. Mine is no exception. We do flight training for business jets- primarily Gulfstreams and Dassault. These are planes that go from $20 million to over 60. Things that affect airlines, like recession, plague, and terrorist attacks don’t hit us very hard. In fact, some of this things increase airplane sales. The rich can’t be bothered to be amongst the hoi polloi.

I'd bet that is true. Inflation is even hitting an incredibly handsome guy like me! Sure wish I'd been born rich instead of good lookin' and lazy!

 

[OkieStubble]

I’m imagining Cowboy boots and Wranglers? Wrangler jeans pockets can get pretty tight?

Or a Ruger SP101.

+1
Find some 110 grain .357. You might be pleasantly surprised. By the fireball.

 

[BigFoot]

+1
Find some 110 grain .357. You might be pleasantly surprised. By the fireball.

.357 is still hard to find.

 

[ctr]

.357 is still hard to find.

Plenty currently available at MidwayUSA. 357 Ammo for Sale - Buy 357 Magnum Ammo Today! | MidwayUSA - https://www.midwayusa.com/357-magnum/br?cid=21700

 

[OkieStubble]

.357 is still hard to find.

It really is. Along with .45 FMJ.

 

[BigFoot]

It really is. Along with .45 FMJ.

Norma usually has .45 auto in stock. I just ordered 3 boxes from them.

 

[OkieStubble]

Norma usually has .45 auto in stock. I just ordered 3 boxes from them.

Is Norma pretty good stuff? Their .22 sure is dirty. Looks like The range is on fire every time I shoot that stuff.

 

[BigFoot]

Is Norma pretty good stuff? Their .22 sure is dirty. Looks like The range is on fire every time I shoot that stuff.

I don't care for their .22. There .45 and .9mm is pretty much all I shoot at the range. Reasonably priced by todays standards, every round I have shot has gone bang. It does not appear any dirtier to me than other comparably priced stuff. It shoots a lot cleaner than Herters.

It has also became my go to carry ammo.

 

[OkieStubble]

Not saying all MBAs are bad- it’s a good degree to have. But on the job knowledge can’t be replaced with a piece of paper- even at my level. I only have an associate degree, but I have 24 years of under fire knowledge about simulation. My PhD is experience.

I obtained 3 degrees while working thru my career. An Associate in police science as a kid before the academy, an undergraduate degree in criminal justice using the 6 free credits a semester the department paid for and then working my way thru an MBA in public administration.

I agree with you. After the 13 years it took to obtain it while working and raising a family, I gained much more education just getting thru real life then I ever did in a classroom, but the classroom did provide a needed balance.

 

[OkieStubble]

I don't care for their .22. There .45 and .9mm is pretty much all I shoot at the range. Reasonably priced by todays standards, every round I have shot has gone bang. It does not appear any dirtier to me than other comparably priced stuff. It shoots a lot cleaner than Herters.

It has also became my go to carry ammo.

View attachment 1551397

Wow! Your go to carry? That’s really saying something! What about it made you go to it from Federal HST?

 

[FarmerTan]

I don't care for their .22. There .45 and .9mm is pretty much all I shoot at the range. Reasonably priced by todays standards, every round I have shot has gone bang. It does not appear any dirtier to me than other comparably priced stuff. It shoots a lot cleaner than Herters.

It has also became my go to carry ammo.

View attachment 1551397

Looks like something the Lone Ranger would carry! Ain't no Vampire surviving an encounter with you my friend!

 

[BigFoot]

Wow! Your go to carry? That’s really saying something! What about it made you go to it from Federal HST?

I read a couple of really good articles on bullet penetration, or more specifically over penetration. The MHP performs at the low end of the FBI gel test supposedly because of its extreme amount of expansion. Each round expands uniformly the same because it is a single cast bullet. That is exactly what I was looking for so I bought a couple of boxes of 9MM. They shot equally accurate through all of my 9mm. They were even comfortable to shoot with 1 hand in the Micro 9, that is usually a jumpy little fella. I now have them in my LCP II in .380 as well. I am not sure they make it in .38 or .357.

 

[OkieStubble]

I read a couple of really good articles on bullet penetration, or more specifically over penetration. The MHP performs at the low end of the FBI gel test supposedly because of its extreme amount of expansion. Each round expands uniformly the same because it is a single cast bullet. That is exactly what I was looking for so I bought a couple of boxes of 9MM. They shot equally accurate through all of my 9mm. They were even comfortable to shoot with 1 hand in the Micro 9, that is usually a jumpy little fella. I now have them in my LCP II in .380 as well. I am not sure they make it in .38 or .357.

I’m gonna have to check it out on YouTube and see what the expansion looks like.