Fly Tiers, Give Us a Hand!

[Curious Adventurer]

I'm of the school of thought that is doesn't matter what the fly looks like (within reason), so long as it's the right size (or a little smaller) and presentation is perfect (or near perfect).

Size, shape, color, and movement in that order should be considered when selecting a fly for any water. I'm still amazed how midges can be so effective on big trout. When I first fished the San Juan River, NM, we threw #24 midges and caught rainbows and browns 20" and larger. The San Juan River is probably an exception, since it has such a huge biomass. The rule of thumb is that big fish prefer bigger flies, esp. browns. That is how they got to be big!

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

Here's a ridiculously easy fly to tie. A nymph using just yarn, thread and a size 12 Fulling Mill Heavyweight Champ barbless hook. They take about a minute and cost very little to make:

 

[Curious Adventurer]

Sir Lurkalot, your fly is sheer simplicity, but it has features that probably make it deadly. The roughed out wool will provide movement as well as the trailing shuck. What wool did you use? A website I go to occasionally sells killer bug yarn, http://www.tenkarabum.com/yarn-nymph.html and has instructions on how to tie his yarn nymph. I visited the both last weekend at the International Fly Tying Symposium, Somerset, NJ.

You use Fulling Mill hooks? Wow, that's what I've used for UK North Country spiders. Good hooks, but hard to find in the US.

I mentioned the Symposium. I took a terrific class by Hans van Klinken, perhaps the best European fly designer. He coached the students through four flies, including the Klinkerhammer Special. What surprised me is that he ties the Klinkhammer Special with Danville Spiderweb white thread, which is 16/0, 20 denier, four oz. break-strength. He ties it as large as #8. The next morning I took a class by Blane Chocklett, who is a highly accomplished tier from Roanoke, VA. He specializes in creating big flies for big fish. We tied an articulated fly that was nearly a foot long with Uni B thread. That thread felt like rope compared to the Spiderweb.

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

C.A. over the course of the fly catching fish, it further alters the yarn, making it more ragged, I suppose. It looks like a real mess as the fly get more use, but, it seems to keep attracting the fish until there's nothing left of the fibers. Tenkarabum had sent me a sample of the killer bug yarn in black and that's what I used to tie the fly. Seems to work perfectly. I recently purchased a small bag of the hungarian partridge feathers from Chris and those work very well for tying the kebaris I use. While you were at Chris' booth, did you happen to check out the rods he carries? He has some of the best Tenkara rods out there including the new one he designed in partnership with the Japanese rod maker Suntech. In regards to the Fulling Mill hooks Anthony at Three Rivers Tenkara carries them. I like them due to the nickel black finish and they are razor sharp. On hooksets, I merely lift the rod tip. That in combination with the fish diving to the bottom is enough for the hook to penetrate. I rarely lose a fish on those hooks. The hooks don't seem to reflect sunlight like typical gold or bronze colored hooks. I watched a video on the Klinkhammer special. Looks like a simple, very effective dry.

 

[Curious Adventurer]

C.A. over the course of the fly catching fish, it further alters the yarn, making it more ragged, I suppose. It looks like a real mess as the fly get more use, but, it seems to keep attracting the fish until there's nothing left of the fibers. Tenkarabum had sent me a sample of the killer bug yarn in black and that's what I used to tie the fly. Seems to work perfectly. I recently purchased a small bag of the hungarian partridge feathers from Chris and those work very well for tying the kebaris I use. While you were at Chris' booth, did you happen to check out the rods he carries? He has some of the best Tenkara rods out there including the new one he designed in partnership with the Japanese rod maker Suntech. In regards to the Fulling Mill hooks Anthony at Three Rivers Tenkara carries them. I like them due to the nickel black finish and they are razor sharp. On hooksets, I merely lift the rod tip. That in combination with the fish diving to the bottom is enough for the hook to penetrate. I rarely lose a fish on those hooks. The hooks don't seem to reflect sunlight like typical gold or bronze colored hooks. I watched a video on the Klinkhammer special. Looks like a simple, very effective dry.

The yarn seems perfect for enduring flies that the more raggedy they become they still catch fish. I have several patterns that do that. Might have to tie some in black as you did.

I try to purchase the whole skin or wings when they are available, e. g., Hungarian and French partridge, American and Scot grouse, natural and dyed guinea, moorhen/waterhen, starling, coot, kingfisher, rather than a bag of feathers. I haven't tied Kebaris or any of the Tenkara flies. But I am drawn to them similar to my infatuation with North Country spiders. For that matter, I am very much curious with Tenkara fishing, but I know next to nothing about it. I saw Chris at the show, but he was really busy tying. A colleague showed me a rod or two and described them, but the finer points were lost on me. I keep my ears open for somebody locally who fishes Tenkara so I can learn directly on the stream.

I just ordered from Three Rivers both of the hooks and a book, Simple Flies by Morgan Lyle. Appreciate the tip about your source for Fulling Mill hooks. I have ordered Fulling Mill wet fly hooks in the past.

I ran into the Klinkhammer years ago when six of us fished in Ireland. We lodged at a working farm and the son of the farmer was a ghillie who took us around to various streams and beats. He convinced us to use the Klinkhammer, which was his go-to fly. I prefer it to just about any other emerger. Hans van Klinken recommends the Daiichi 1160 or 1167 Klinkhammer hook, the latter being the black nickel finish both of us prefer.

 

[goby]

Size, shape, color, and movement in that order should be considered when selecting a fly for any water. I'm still amazed how midges can be so effective on big trout. When I first fished the San Juan River, NM, we threw #24 midges and caught rainbows and browns 20" and larger. The San Juan River is probably an exception, since it has such a huge biomass. The rule of thumb is that big fish prefer bigger flies, esp. browns. That is how they got to be big!

Same here. I'm on the Trinity River, which is a tailwater. Little flies get huge fish.

When you talk about movement of the fly, you're not talking about presentation, right? Because I still think presentation is the most important factor.

 

[Curious Adventurer]

Movement occurs after the presentation, which is huge of course. I meant movement of the fly that imparts life to fish. Centuries ago, our British cousins, G. E. M. Skues, James Baillie (Stewart's Black Spider), William Stewart (The Practical Angler, 1857) and later American anglers Jim Leisenring, Pete Hidy (Flymph), Sylvester Nemes, and Dave Hughes promoted wet flies that were tied in a manner that enabled movement of hackle in the water, which suggested a struggling insect. I was reminded again when I just received a book by Morgan Lyle, Simple Flies, 2015, along with some Fulling Mill hooks from Three Rivers Tenkara (Thanks, Sir Lurkalot). Lyle quoted Skues, "Kick," said Skues. "This is a quality which every hackled wet fly, for use in rough water, should invariably have Without it, it is a dead thing; with it, it is alive and struggling, and the fly which is alive and struggling has a fascination for the trout which no dead thing has." After I read the many books about North Country soft hackles, particularly spiders, I realized I had been hackling my flies too heavily. Too much hackle will inhibit the movement that makes spiders so effective. Movement of the fly in the water can also apply to modern flies. Bob Clouser's Deep Minnow is all about movement. The precise way the barbell eyes are mounted on the hook allows a jigging motion, which suggests an injured baitfish. The centuries-old Partridge and Orange or Yellow still works well, if the tier keeps the hackle skimpy.

BTW, little flies, e. g., midges, most certainly can catch big fish. Right now, I'm tying and re-stocking my midge box with Zebra Midges, Mercury Black Beauties, Miracle Midges, and other Pat Dorsey creations.

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

I noticed while fishing Lower Mountain Fork in Oklahoma, a tailrace fishery, that the majority of fish I had been catching was at the end of the drift as the fly swung across and downstream. As the fly would rise through the water column with the tightening line, a fish would generally hit at that moment. At that point it seemed that the fly was behaving in a "live" manner and struggling to get to the surface which enticed the trout to strike. I also caught trout on a straight, dead drift, but more were caught on the swing.

 

[Curious Adventurer]

Sir Lurkalot, that is the classic cast for a wet fly, quarter-cast upstream and wait for the strike as the current takes the fly downstream. After studying the North Country anglers, I started casting spiders upstream and raised the leader as the current pushed the fly downstream. High-stick nymphing can be highly effective. Years ago, I fished the Savage River in Maryland while heavy rains had just about blown out the river. I wasn't having much luck at all. While I was resting a pool, two anglers from PA were fishing downstream, saw me on the bank, and asked if they could fish through. Of course, I nodded my head because I wanted to see how they would do. I noticed they held their rods high and kept much of the leader out of the water. They caught three fish where I had previously pounded the hell out of the water. I was amazed. They told me they were using Green Weenies. I had none in my fly box, but it wasn't the fly that was responsible for their success. It was their high-stick nymphing. Now, I use a lot of wet flies and cast upstream, even to rising fish, and raise my leader higher as the fly is pushed toward me. It works. There are a lot of fish feeding just below the surface of the water. That is the very essence of wet fly fishing. I can readily see how a kabari-style fly can entice a strike from the way the hackle is reverse-tied.

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

For those pesky trout that hold a bit deeper:

 

[Curious Adventurer]

For those pesky trout that hold a bit deeper:

View attachment 626327

Looks like Tenkara-style, but I am surprised to see such a weighted fly for Tenkara. Black nickel brass with hen hackle? Fullling Mill hook? Nicely tied.

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

Yes it does go against the Tenkara principles. But it worked. Went fishing yesterday and this was the fly that caught the most fish. And yes the grey bodied one is Fulling Mill. Crazy trout, who knows what their thinking!

 

[Curious Adventurer]

Gosh, your tie is creative. The fly just fascinates me. Did you dream up that one? It doesn't seem complicated. You tied the hackle first? Then, you slipped a bead over the hackle to push the hackle forward, wrapped thread to build and taper the thorax, and whip-finished behind the bead, right? What size or sizes did you tie? What hackle did you choose...well-marked hen? Is that a brass or tungsten bead?

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

Sorry CA, been away. On Instagram, I follow numerous fly fishers from Japan. Some of them tie similar kebaris using bead heads or glass beads. The bead that I used is a nickel finish brass bead on a size 12 hook. I threaded the bead onto the thread and then started tying the hackle first which is partridge or that grizzly whiting hen hackle. Once the hackle was secured with a three turn whip finish, I removed the hook from the vice and threaded the bead onto the hook behind the hackle, then finish with wraps so the body tapers. Then finish it with a 5 turn whip finish. This was the result:

 

[Curious Adventurer]

Figured you had to slide the bead over the hack to push it forward. Didn't understand why you need to thread the bead before you tied the hackle. What I really like about your tie is that you hackled sparsely in the tradition of North Country spiders. Too many tiers over-hackle, which destroys the effect of hackle as it moves through the water. The more I think about it, the more the forward hackle makes sense when it comes to soft hackle.

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

CA, The only real reason I threaded the bead beforehand was so I didn't have to cut and re-tie the thread after I secured the hackle. It doesn't take much hackle either. I think I did 4 wraps and tied it off. In the background behind the fly in that one photo, is the stretch where I had caught the most fish. It was wide, slow and it ran deep. I just let the fly sink, which it did very quickly, to about 4 feet, and then pulsed it along as it drifted slowly. It wouldn't be long before I could see the line moving from a fish taking it. Also, as the sun was getting close to setting, several trout began feeding on the surface. I hooked into one by casting right in the middle of it's swirl and he jumped three times before freeing himself.

 

[Curious Adventurer]

So, I tied a dozen of your beadhead wet fly sakasa kebari style as you did. I have yet to fish them, but I included them with the dozens of flies I am tying for Project Healing Waters. I used either a short, black nickel Hamak barbless hook or a Kamasan, partridge, and a black nickel bead. These were tied on #14. I used Ultra 70 thread in black. I like the control of this thread from extremely flat to corded by spinning the bobbin. I am thinking about tying them in a dark dun or coq de leon. Hen has a thinner, yet stronger stem than partridge. Next time I tie these I'll try mounting the bead on the head before I tie in the hackle.

I feel myself backing into this style of tying and maybe later Tenkara fishing as I did when I started tying the North Country or Yorkshire spiders and using a 10' or 11' rod for soft hackle fly fishing.

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

Are you going to post a pic of them? I would like to see what they look like. To throw a wrench into the works, here's some others I tied using glass beads. They're not as "weighty" as the brass beads. These are tied on the Daiichi 1250 barbless hooks. These will sink at a slower rate during the drift as compared to the brass bead flies. Plus the glass gives the head of the fly a little "shimmer" if the sunlight hits it right. This fly and the brass bead kebari were the only two flies I fished this past Monday. I caught fish on both, but, I will have to say, in the faster current of the main river, I caught the most fish on the brass bead fly. Most likely because it was able to sink deeper in the water column. Problem with that is having trouble on hooksets with a traditional tenkara rod due to the soft tip section. I have a 14' Keiryu rod (Daiwa Kiyose 43M), which is stiffer throughout the length of the rod, and it makes taking up the line that is sunk in the water with the fly, easy.


Daiichi hook



Fulling Mill

 

[Curious Adventurer]

Wow, they look terrific, SL. I thought about using glass beads and even another color of thread and brass bead for the next batch of your flies. I was thinking I might use a silver or crystal gray glass bead or maybe use a copper brass bead and dark brown thread. I use a lot of glass beads with midges, mostly in #18 - #22 and sometimes with soft hackle flies in #14 - #18 . What model Fulling Mill hook are you using?

I do have a confession to make. I haven't a clue how to post photos. I have cameras and there is my smart cell phone.

Well, I won't be able to follow up for a while. I live right in the middle of ground zero for the awesome Jonas snowstorm. This snowmageddon is forecasted to pound us with well over two feet of snow and blizzard winds. Everything will be shut down. The VA governor has already declared a commonwealth-wide emergency. No doubt we'll lose power for days. But before that, we'll lose satellite connection for TV and internet. All of that will start sometime this afternoon. I figured we would pay for the balmy December we had. We are all stocked and ready to hunker down for the weekend and probably into next week. These are the days when I wished I had installed a generator that is fueled from the 1,000 gallon propane tank buried in the side yard. The upside of this storm is that I'll have a lot of time to tie flies as long as it doesn't get too cold in the house and there is enough light in my tying room. I need to tie many dozens of various flies for Project Healing Waters. Also, I'm writing a fly tying training program for novice tiers. And this downtime will force me to straighten out my tying room and clean up my tying desk, which has gotten away from me.

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

The hook is the Heavyweight Champ size 12. Next time I go trout fishing, which will probably be the Blue River in OK, I'm going to try some #18 beadhead nymphs I bought a while back just for curiosity's sake. I also have #12 and #14 nymphs tied on trout jig heads. It will be interesting to see how those fare since they won't be nearly as quick to get hung up on the bottom. I used to fish jigs nearly year round when I lived in Colorado, but it wasn't for trout, it was for hybrid stripers and walleye. The best way was to use a plain jig hook with a live minnow pinned on it and drifted below the boat.

I've been watching the storm. I have family who live in NJ so they are getting it but probably not nearly as bad as your area. Stay warm. As far as posting photos, if you are on a regular computer, just click the "insert image icon". It's pretty simple. For a cell phone however, the only work around I know of is to select the full site (not mobile site) view, so you would see all the options for replying to a thread. Only problem is with the small screen of the cell phone, it can get tedious trying to move the view around so you can select the image icons. It's supposed to be 54 and sunny here today so I'll probably hit a local pond to catch some panfish.