Fly Tiers, Give Us a Hand!

[Curious Adventurer]

Jessy, it was my pleasure to help you get started. I surfed the World Wide Weird for beginner fly tying, but I'm afraid there is not much I can recommend. There is one though I can and that would be Al Campbell'a text for beginners (the first five parts). See http://flyanglersonline.com/flytying/beginners/. He discusses tools in an unbiased way. The subsequent parts I would rather you take a local class. Hopefully, the instructor will know how to teach.

When I teach fly tying, I start with a short history on fly tying, an overview of the different types of flies, an explanation of necessary tools with extra time explaining the vise and operations of various vises, a discussion of materials and hooks, and then launch into the several knots involved. The first knot believe it or not is the simple jam knot, which just attaches the thread to the hook. Then, I'll show and the students will practice a couple of half-hitches with and without a to, which provide a suitable temporary knot that keeps the material in place and allows the tier to relax thread tension. I do not believe the half-hitch, even two half-hitches together, is not a finishing knot (unless the tier plans to coat it with adhesive). Finally, I show the finishing knot, which is called a whip-finish. if you finish with a five-turn whip finish, it will not become undone no matter how many fish abuse it and no adhesive is necessary. I use a manual whip-finish, but I teach the student how to use a whip-finishing tool, the Matarelli and Thompson, since the manual method seems a bit too fiddly for a beginner.

The first fly I teach is the inch worm, which is just wrapping chenille around the hook and employing all of the knots. Some instructors start off with the Woolly Worm or Woolly Bugger, but that would involve "palmering" hackle, another technique, and using wire ribbing to secure the palmered hackle, which I teach soon later. This step-by-step teaching the basics avoids overwhelming students, eliminates bad habits, builds success, and allows me to observe the progress of each student. This stretching out the fundamentals is a bit slow at first, but the learning picks up speed later as more advanced techniques are taught and practiced. When i get to dry flies much later, the students already know the correct proportions and the importance. Handouts provide key points and space for note-taking.

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

That chenille worm is soooooo simple to tie and effective as well. Can't get any easier than that.

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

This is the Teeny Nymph, sorry it's facing up:




These are called kebari:




North Country flies; Partridge and Orange:

 

[Curious Adventurer]

Very nice ties. I've lost track of how many dozens of Teeny Nymphs I've tied. I tie them for my own use and I tie them for Project Healing Waters. I buy the dyed center pheasant tail directly from Jim Teeny, since his quality is the best I've seen. My most effective color is insect green, followed by brown or natural as you have, but years ago I caught my largest coho salmon in Alaska on a #6 pink Teeny! I have no idea why I tied it in pink or even used a Teeny Nymph on salmon. (Jessie, the Teeny Nymph is a simple fly to tie and uses just one material, pheasant tail. But if you relax the tension as you wrap, your fly will have a bad hair day.)

The kebari flies I've yet to tie, since those are used with Tenkara fishing. No doubt you have seen the Chris Stewart's website, www.[B]tenkarabum[/B].com/. I may take up tenkara fishing next year. Your flies look great.

Your Partridge and Orange flies look impressive. I see you prefer a curved, Japanned hook rather than the standard wet fly hook. Do you tie other other North Country flies? I can recommend a terrific book, A Guide to North Country Flies and How to Tie Them by Mike Harding. He has a wealth of recipes. Another modern UK writer, Roger Fogg, has provided a wealth of information. See if you can find his book, Wet-Fly Tying and Fishing. The Partridge and Orange is quite effective in US waters, but try the Snipe and Purple, Sandy Moor Game, and Stewart's Black Spider. Stewart's Black Spider, though not now considered a North Country Spider, is a killer in #18 or #20. It has replaced some midges and Griffith's Gnat in my fly box.

I got into North Country Flies last year and tied dozens and dozens of patterns. I collected many books from UK book dealers, some very old and pricey. The research has greatly expanded my tying skills. One of the first things I learned was to hackle sparsely...very sparsely. US tiers, including me, tend to hackle too heavily, which impairs movement of the fly in the water. North Country spiders for the most part don't imitate specific insects, but rather suggest a struggling insect. They are usually unweighted, because they are fished just under the surface of the water.

While I read and read about North Country spiders, I ran into the debate that occurred in UK during the late 1800s between a famous wet fly fisher, G.E.M. Skues, and an equally famous dry fly purist, F.M. Halford. It reminded me of some of my experiences on East Coast rivers with some dry fly purists. They go crazy when I cast a wet fly upstream to a rising trout. I suppose I am marked as a heretic.

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

Thanks for the encouragement. You know Jim Teeny said he has caught all kinds of fish on that one fly pattern and it is so simple to tie. It doesn't even have to look perfect for it to work. With regards to the color pink, I have tied kebaris with pink thread and catch fish all the time. When you think about how the trout is so well camouflaged against the streambed, so is its food source. I suppose if the fish "sees" something brightly colored floating through the water, it's going to at least look at it and then ultimately decide whether or not to eat it. I wouldn't believe a fish would pass up what it would think is an easy meal.

Yes I'm a frequent flier on Chris's site and have bought several items from him in regards to the Tenkara style of fishing. You should give it a try. On small creeks and streams the technique really shines. Stealth of the fisherman is key to making it effective. I don't see why you wouldn't be able to use a kebari with a traditional western setup. Just fish it like any wetfly and it will behave the same way. The premise behind the reverse hackle is when the fly moves or is pulled by the fisherman, it causes the hackle to flutter thus making it appear alive. Even in a dead drift, micro currents in the water column will cause the hackle to move. And again, they are so simple to tie. Now I know they won't catch every fish out there, although I have caught bass and panfish on them, but, for the fish I am pursuing, it's these fly patterns that catch me the most fish. I've fished with dries but even when I've spotted fish feeding on the surface, I could care less what fly is thrown to them because they are obviously actively feeding. I've made casts using bead head nymphs to surface feeding trout and caught them. I will continue to do the same to rising fish. I've even fished dry flies wet and caught fish. Many times I have watched as my fly hit the water's surface and the trout took it before it had time to sink! I don't believe there is a trout out there, whose instinct is survival, that will pass up a meal because it's not floating on the surface, or it doesn't perfectly imitate its prey. As long as that fly looks "buggy" it's going to take it.

I do like the look of the curved hooks. I have traditional dry fly hooks also and tied kebari style flies using them. All have caught fish. I think I just like the aesthetics of the curved hook. Heck, I had some really small bait holder style hooks and I made flies of those after mashing all the barbs down. They work too!

I recently was at a tailwater trout fishery in Oklahoma named Lower Mountain Fork (LMF) river. I fished it tenkara style and was a bit overwhelmed. Not by the fast water or the deep holes but by the sheer width of it. I felt that I should have brought my western rod with me, however, I gave it the old Boy Scout try, and was pretty successful. Caught and lost some really large rainbows. Most of the fish caught were in the fast water sections. What I wanted to say was I'm used to going to remote streams and not having to share the stretch with anyone, generally for the entire day. That's not the case at the LMF. There are plenty of other fisherman there. I was watching a guide fishing a fast stretch of water, it was a fast riffle with a deep pool below it. I was fishing further downstream in the deeper, slower pool and not having any takes even though I was using a heavier nymph hook. He was using a western setup, fishing a nymph below and indicator. I saw him catch one fish. I relocated further above him in another deep, fast water area and immediately caught a 15" rainbow right in the heart of the fast water. I continued upstream from that point. Later in the day I returned to the same spot he was fishing and it was occupied by another fly fisherman. I waited and fished that same fast water stretch in the meantime. I caught another rainbow there and had several hits from others. The fly fisherman left the spot and I moved in. Talk about pressured fish! After I was set, my casts were right in the center of the fastest water. The kebari would float the fast water and hit the deeper section, wham!, fish on. I caught a total of 4 and lost one in a 30 minute time span. I can't honestly say if I would have had the same outcome using my western setup with an indicator.

I'm from the school of thought that if the fly looks like a bug and the fish are hungry, the fisherman shouldn't have any problems catching them.

 

[Curious Adventurer]

That chenille worm is soooooo simple to tie and effective as well. Can't get any easier than that.

Meant to comment earlier. Yes, it is simple to tie, but it allows a beginner to concentrate on knots without the distraction of other steps. This first fly is a big deal to a beginner who has never tied and where I observe closely how well each student has accomplished tying the half-hitch and the whip-finish. It would be frustrating for both student and instructor if later a student really didn't know how to finish a fly and it fell apart. I've seen classes where the instructor buzzed along unmindful of some students who were left behind in the instruction.

 

[Curious Adventurer]

Sir Lurkalot, as you no doubt know, Jim Teeny originated his Teeny Nymph when he was 12 years old and he built a thriving business from that one fly. I tied his fly in lots of variations, e. g., Flash Fly, leaches. The strangest experience I had with a Teeny Flash Fly was when my son and I fished the shad run one March at the Rappahannock River, which is just several miles from home. We waded just 25 yards apart and cast into the channel. I gave my son the same fly I was using, a Teeny Flash Fly in purple-dyed pheasant tail with purple Krystal Flash. I caught only rockfish (striped bass), which also spawn during the shad run, and he caught only shad. He complained about it so we switched places. Again, he caught only shad and I caught only rockfish. We switched again to our original positions. The same thing happened again and never changed throughout the day. We fished the same depth, changed depths, changed line strips, changed leaders, but the weirdness never changed. The Teeny Nymph works on just about every fish I target. It
worked last month when I fished the rivers in Western North Carolina. Then, I used yellow or orange pheasant tail as a nymph. Those colors are local favorites in many of the local flies.

Your anecdote about fishing a wide river in OK has me excited about tying and fishing Kebari flies and probably other Japanese flies used with Tenkara fishing. I see similarities between Kebari flies and North Country flies, sparseness and movement being most significant. You reminded me of what I had purchased from Chris's site. I purchased my first cobbler's tying wax he gets from Bill Bailey. Both light and dark waxes are just about essential for tying with silk. I really like tying with silk thread and silk floss. I've tied down to #20 with some of the North Country patterns. Tying wax does a few positive things to silk I discovered. It seats a wrap, changes the color of silk in an attractive way, and eliminates adhesive, allows just a three-turn whip-finish.

I agree with you about if a fly looks buggy, it will catch hungry fish. However, I am reminded of Dave Whitlock's comment at a tying demonstration I attended years ago. Whitlock was tying one of his originals and he got a couple of smart-*** comments from some jerk in the audience. This jerk held up a poorly tied fly he had tied and claimed it would out-fish Whitlock's fly. Dave smiled and said, "Perhaps, but would you want to eat a fish that had something like that in its mouth?" The audience was convulsed with laughter. The jerk just quietly slipped away. Years ago, Whitlock left Arkansas and returned to OK. I trust you have tied some of his very effective flies.

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

Curious, that's a funny story about the teeny nymph. There had to be some reason why the fish were responding the way they did. Odd. Were the tippet sizes the same? Must be fun catching stripers on a fly rod!

So I know that silk thread is "slick" when compared to regular polyester thread and in order to keep my flies from unraveling, I'll finish with two whip finishes, a 4 turn and a 5 turn. So the wax coats the thread, makes it grip better and changes the color? How much wax do you put on the thread? I'll have to look into it.

You know, regarding Lower Mountain Fork, I can't really say if it was the fly or the way the fly is presented. We know that traditional floating fly line lies upon the water's surface and those currents affect the line which then affects the drift of the leader/tippet and then the fly. Without mending, which is sometimes very necessary, you'll have a mess of line floating downstream and dragging the fly with it. With Tenkara, the mainline, which is much much thinner than western fly line, is held off the water (for the most part) by the length of the rod. This allows the fly to drift nearly unhindered through the water column or can float almost indefinitely in an eddy.

I've tied some pretty ugly flies and mostly due to skill or trying something new. They have caught fish. I do like it though when I tie a fly that looks aesthetically correct because it's more pleasing to the eye and it means that maybe my skill is at least making some improvement. Or, I was just concentrating harder at that moment! Of course, catching fish on those "better quality" flies is always a plus.

 

[Hirsute]

I'd recommend taking a class to start. When I was considering getting into fly tying, I signed up for a 2-day class at a nearby flyshop. I got to try fly tying without buying materials or tools (they were provided for the course), and those can get expensive so it was a good investment. I also got off to a great start because I learned how to do things right and left the class having tied a dozen different patters using different tying techniques and a materials list for each one. It was a great education.

 

[Curious Adventurer]

Curious, that's a funny story about the teeny nymph. There had to be some reason why the fish were responding the way they did. Odd. Were the tippet sizes the same? Must be fun catching stripers on a fly rod!

So I know that silk thread is "slick" when compared to regular polyester thread and in order to keep my flies from unraveling, I'll finish with two whip finishes, a 4 turn and a 5 turn. So the wax coats the thread, makes it grip better and changes the color? How much wax do you put on the thread? I'll have to look into it.

You know, regarding Lower Mountain Fork, I can't really say if it was the fly or the way the fly is presented. We know that traditional floating fly line lies upon the water's surface and those currents affect the line which then affects the drift of the leader/tippet and then the fly. Without mending, which is sometimes very necessary, you'll have a mess of line floating downstream and dragging the fly with it. With Tenkara, the mainline, which is much much thinner than western fly line, is held off the water (for the most part) by the length of the rod. This allows the fly to drift nearly unhindered through the water column or can float almost indefinitely in an eddy....

Catching shad and rockfish is a hoot. Shad, particularly American shad a opposed to hickory shad, are sometimes called the poor man's tarpon. The can be quite acrobatic. But shad aren't my choice for a fish dinner. Shad are bony. However, in Maryland and Virginia, some folks catch them to pickle them in brine. Netting shad requires a special dip net license. Rockfish are a different story. I was raised fishing the Chesapeake Bay and its tributaries. Rockfish are one of the tastiest fish one can eat. My largest rockfish was somewhere around 35 lbs. when I was 15 years old. That was well before I got into fly fishing. On my home water, the Rappahannock River, shad appear first in March and a few weeks later rockfish are mixed in with them. Back to that day with my son, we used the same leader/tippet size. I just use a fairly short leader with 1X or OX tippet. I don't believe rockfish or shad are particularly leader shy, but I am convinced shad are color selective. One season the color was orange, another red, and often chartreuse. The Clouser Minnow is usually effective, but I need to tie them in various colors and add Krystal Flash. I just keep throwing different colors until I notice what color is on the preferred menu. The Teeny as a a flash fly works pretty well. Tie it with a tail with Krystal Flash, a wing, and a beard. Shad have much smaller mouths than rockfish so I have to size the fly carefully so I can catch both shad and rockfish, if they are running together. Size #6 seems about right. I'll drop down to #8 if no rockfish are around.

The technique for Tenkara fishing seems very similar to high-stick nymphing and is almost right out of the book for the way wet fly fishing was done in UK before the advent of reels. I ran into a couple of guys from PA years ago who were high-stick nymphing with the Green Weenie. A group of us from VA were fishing the Savage River in MD. At that time most of the streams in Western MD were blown out from storms. It was a struggle for me to catch anything. But these two guys were catching fish after fish.

Regarding the cobbler's wax, it must be softened with a little heat. Old-timers in UK used to put a lump in their shirt pocket before going to work. By the time they got off from work, the wax was softened enough from body heat to use on their silk thread. I dab a little cobbler's wax on a doll needle, which is embedded in a wine bottle cork, and use the heat from my tying lamp to soften it. Normally, dark cobbler's wax is used, but I often use the light wax when I want to preserve the color of thread. Also, I may under-wrap the body with white thread as well. A light coating is all that is needed for most patterns. You might try using cobbler's wax and find you can reduce your wraps, particularly the number for your whip-finish. I find that is very important when tying very small wet flies. Like everything in fly tying it takes a little practice with wax to get its use to your satisfaction. Although cobbler's wax is not meant for dubbing, I have on occasion used it for dubbing when I've misplaced my Wonder Wax.

 

[Curious Adventurer]

I'd recommend taking a class to start. When I was considering getting into fly tying, I signed up for a 2-day class at a nearby flyshop. I got to try fly tying without buying materials or tools (they were provided for the course), and those can get expensive so it was a good investment. I also got off to a great start because I learned how to do things right and left the class having tied a dozen different patters using different tying techniques and a materials list for each one. It was a great education.

That was a very wise move. I still take a class whenever I see one offered by a master tier. It's a good way to learn new techniques or different ways to accomplish the same task. A tier should know as many techniques as possible because it develops expertise or understanding to tie flies that were a mystery to tie earlier. Right now, I plan to attend the International Fly Tying Symposium in Somerset, NJ. i hope to catch a fly tying class taught by Hans van Klinken, the originator of the Klinkhammer. The Klinkhammer is one of the very best emerger patterns I've used.

 

[Hirsute]

That was a very wise move. I still take a class whenever I see one offered by a master tier. It's a good way to learn new techniques or different ways to accomplish the same task. A tier should know as many techniques as possible because it develops expertise or understanding to tie flies that were a mystery to tie earlier. Right now, I plan to attend the International Fly Tying Symposium in Somerset, NJ. i hope to catch a fly tying class taught by Hans van Klinken, the originator of the Klinkhammer. The Klinkhammer is one of the very best emerger patterns I've used.

That sounds like a great class! Nothing can beat learning from a master. I got lucky with my intro class--it was taught by the late great Dick Talleur.

 

[Curious Adventurer]

That sounds like a great class! Nothing can beat learning from a master. I got lucky with my intro class--it was taught by the late great Dick Talleur.

One would be hard-pressed to find another with the skills Dick Talleur had. I have several of his books and consult them from time to time. You were indeed fortunate to get into his class. A two-day class from Dick Talleur would provide a huge start for a beginner with fly tying.

 

[goby]

Great post, with some great info. Here's my two cents...
1. Do not get a kit. Usually the material sucks, and the tools aren't the greatest. Only get the materials for the fly you intend to tie.
2. Find one simple pattern and master that. I'm posting a video of a simple pattern that I use all year.
3. Take a class!!! You'll learn things in 5 seconds that might take you an hour to figure out watching a video.
4. Find a buddy to teach you if you can't find a class. But classes are the way to go.

I've tied thousands of flies, and there is no greater feeling than fooling a trout on a fly you've tied. Except one that you've created.

 

[Curious Adventurer]

Great post, with some great info. Here's my two cents...
1. Do not get a kit. Usually the material sucks, and the tools aren't the greatest. Only get the materials for the fly you intend to tie.
2. Find one simple pattern and master that. I'm posting a video of a simple pattern that I use all year.
3. Take a class!!! You'll learn things in 5 seconds that might take you an hour to figure out watching a video.
4. Find a buddy to teach you if you can't find a class. But classes are the way to go.

I've tied thousands of flies, and there is no greater feeling than fooling a trout on a fly you've tied. Except one that you've created... ]

Goby, I believe most experienced tiers would not recommend a kit. Every one I've seen has very cheap, off-shore tools and scrub materials. The vises won't hold a hook very well and what I'm told often break. I don't know why some reputable shops and suppliers offer them to the public. They do a disservice to new tiers. There are vises and tools available that are relatively inexpensive and work OK, though limited. The old Thompson Model A (not a copy) was one that even some expert tiers used for many, many years with satisfaction. Also, excellent vises sometimes are on sale for as much as 20% off retail. I've seen used, upper tier vises offered at huge discounts. I imagine eBay has those or a good fly tackle shop.

I agree with you about tying a fly pattern repeatedly until it cannot be tied better. On most new patterns, I need to tie it a dozen times or more until I am able to tie it smoothly without thinking about the next step. I say tie it slowly and precisely and speed will come later. For a dozen or more, I follow the advice of A. K. Best (Production Flies) and break down the components and repeatedly tie each component for all of them and place a couple of half-hitches or whip-finish at each step, and continue tying a step at a time until all I want to tie are completed.

Taking a class by a well-know tier is probably the best advice. I plan to attend the International Fly Tiers Symposium, November 21-22. I signed up for a class each morning by Hans van Klinken (Klinkhammer Special) and Blaine Chocklett. It was difficult to decide between van Klinken and Charlie Craven, since both teach at the same time. It isn't so much I want to learn a new pattern, but to learn other techniques. I plan to shop for hard-to-find materials or bargains after the classes. I imagine there will be gadgets galore there that I don't need, but may be interesting to see.

Having a buddy teach has the risk of acquiring bad habits or dated techniques. Sometimes even a sponsored instructor is risky. The late Chris Helm, a master tier and the foremost expert on deer hair, often railed about how many instructors may be experts in fly tying, but they lack teaching skills.

Just my thoughts.

Almost forgot to mention the video you posted. I've seen a lot of In the Riffle videos, but that one I missed. That is one buggy fly and sure to catch fish. I don't recall the material used for the legs, tail, and antenna, but it sure looks it would create a lot of movement in the water. The coffee/black variegated chenille I need to look for. This fly would probably be too fiddly for a new tier. Have you tied many of these? Thanks.

 

[Soapy Smith]

I started tying MANY years ago (my Dad bought me a Thompson 'A' vice back in 1978 that got me started when I was 6 years old). First thing I would recommend is a book called "Adventures in Fur, Feathers, and Fun" by John McKim. This will explain the difference in hackles, what happens when you spin dear hair, etc. etc. I did a book report on this book when I was in 4th grade LOL. Not sure if the book is still in print but it looks like Amazon has a couple of copies at a good price

http://www.amazon.com/Fly-Tying-Adv...47209327&sr=8-2&keywords=Fur+Feathers+and+Fun

Growing up in Southern California, I was a member of the Long Beach Casting Club. My Dad volunteered teaching how to tie the Brown Hackle Peacock as well as other flies. He also taught the rod building class. I really recommend finding something similar in your area.

I don't recommend a pattern book...at least initially. I recommend talking with folks in your area. There were flies we used in So Cal that worked awesome (Lowe's Grey Nymph was one of them) that I have had no luck catching fish on here in Colorado. The pink fly on the first page of this thread would absolutely slay Silver Salmon in Alaska (took a trip with my Dad back in 1983 - I tied a bunch of hot pink bunny flies that the guides laughed at until I was the only guy catching fish).

It's a great adventure - enjoy it and take your time!

 

[Curious Adventurer]

Soapy, you hit on something that is absolutely true. Locally originated flies usually work better for that locale than anything else. That is why I strive to learn the local patterns whenever I travel to fish. My October trip to Western North Carolina was a case in point. I spent a good two months learning the local patterns, chatting up fly shop folks, and acquiring books authored by locals. That effort really paid off. Of course, when I arrived I continued to chat up the locals and made purchases at a couple of fly shops.

 

[goby]

Almost forgot to mention the video you posted. I've seen a lot of In the Riffle videos, but that one I missed. That is one buggy fly and sure to catch fish. I don't recall the material used for the legs, tail, and antenna, but it sure looks it would create a lot of movement in the water. The coffee/black variegated chenille I need to look for. This fly would probably be too fiddly for a new tier. Have you tied many of these? Thanks.

Yep, I've tied a million of them. Some of them don't look as perfect as those in the fly shop, but the fish don't care.

They are cheap and fast, so I don't mind if I loose them.

Here is the material used for the legs:

https://catalog.theflyshop.com/product_info.php?cPath=337_612&products_id=6310

 

[goby]

T
I'm from the school of thought that if the fly looks like a bug and the fish are hungry, the fisherman shouldn't have any problems catching them.

I'm of the school of thought that is doesn't matter what the fly looks like (within reason), so long as it's the right size (or a little smaller) and presentation is perfect (or near perfect).

 

[Sir Lurkalot]

I'm of the school of thought that is doesn't matter what the fly looks like (within reason), so long as it's the right size (or a little smaller) and presentation is perfect (or near perfect).

Makes sense. Also on sunny days, watching where your shadow is in relation to the water is a factor. Nothing will put a fish down faster than an errant shadow falling across the water.