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First try with a brush

I've been getting a good DFS doing 3 passes (WTG/XTG/ATG) with my Henson mild using just Cremo, but I also get weepers nearly every shave, which I don't like. The B&B advice was that I really need to use a brush and better cream or soap, so I ordered a PAA Starcraft and some Speick cream, and loaded a GSB (current #1 in the Mass Appeal Blade thread) into my Henson.

So now I'm returning to the Shave Clinic. I'm 50 but I feel like a teenager trying to do this for the first time, and there's surprisingly little in the way of basic instructions (at least not that I could find), so I'm hoping y'all can provide some feedback here!

First, I wet my Starcraft. I'm not sure, should it be soaking wet, should the water drip out, or should I shake or squeeze it out? I thought I read somewhere here to shake it, but I couldn't find where I saw that. Still, it seemed a happy medium between drip and squeeze, so I shook.
IMG_1495.JPEG


Then I wet my face and took this much Speick...
IMG_1496.JPEG


...and smeared it on my face and neck.
IMG_1497.JPEG


Then I swirled and painted with the brush for I don't know, probably 30 seconds? Maybe a minute?
IMG_1500.JPEG


I'm not sure how it should be, but that seems kinda dry. Is that dry? Or did I not swirl and paint enough? I think it's dry. Sprinkled some more water on the brush and swirled and painted a bit more. Still dry I think, so I did it again, now it looks like this:
IMG_1501.JPEG


I'm not sure that's still all that much better, but I don't want to overdo the water either, so I went with it. That GSB is smooth! This is the first time I've used a GSB too, maybe I should have used a blade I'm more familiar with so I'd know if any difference is the blade or the cream. Anyway, I wet my face again after the first pass - not trying to rinse off any residual cream, but just to get it wet again. Was I supposed to do that? Then I swirled/painted on some more from the brush. Same after the XTG pass. There was still plenty on the brush to go around:
IMG_1508.JPEG


ATG I got a weeper at one corner of my mustache and one on my neck. 😖 Feeling my face, I still needed some cleanup on both jawlines and both sides of my adam's apple. There's still more than plenty cream on the brush, which makes me think that little smidge of cream was still way more than I needed! Unfortunately, cleaning up the neck produced a good dozen weepers on the right side. 😖😖 I'll spare you all that picture. Happily, the bleeding stopped rinsing with cold water before even applying alum. Alum feedback was strong on the mustache and (predictably) on the neck, but pretty mild everywhere else.

Thanks anyone who read this far. In the end, it was a DFS, and 3 hours later I can feel just a couple spots I could have done better. I do wish I could quit with the weepers. And this took a full 30 minutes, which is entirely more time than I have most days, though I don't expect to be taking pics most of the time either. Any feedback would be appreciated - either general feedback or answers to specific questions above. Hopefully not too bad for a middle aged 18-year-old!
 
If you want to apply it to your face and do face lathering (Which I Prefer). Get yourself a soap stick. There are many. A good cheap start would be Arko.
 
Using what you've got to lather in a bowl might be a very useful exercise. That way you can add water and see how the lather reacts as you whip it up with your brush. Then you can experiment with the amount of water that you like in your lather. The amount of water you incorporate in the lather has a pretty dramatic impact on the lather's performance during a shave.
 
+1 on bowl lather. I’m not that far ahead of you on the learning curve and I found the bowl was a good way to build a lather and learn how much water and agitation to use. I started with a small corelle soup bowl/cup, so you may not even need another purchase to experiment. Put the cream on the brush or in the bowl and give it a whirl.
 

JCarr

More Deep Thoughts than Jack Handy
You need to get a bowl. Squeeze the water out of the brush...it'll still be wet. Put that dab of Speick in a lathering bowl and put a small amount of hot water on it...just coat it...and then whip it up into a rich, creamy bowl-full of lather. You add a little bit of water as you whip it up and it'll create more lather. Then...paint that stuff on your face.

I recommend something like this:

Copper Shaving Bowl Mug Cup for Shaving Brush and Safety Razor. | eBay - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Copper-Shaving-Bowl-Mug-Cup-for-Shaving-Brush-and-Safety-Razor-/131395063442?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&_trksid=p2349624.m46890.l49286&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0
 
When I first started I found the best way for me to get a good lather was to face lather. The best results out of the gate came from a tube of Proraso. You can get a tube from ebay for about $8. I mainly use a 26mm synthetic brush and found that I was not using enough water at the start. I was squeezing too much out. A half hearted shake does well for me. I do not paint. I swirl and lightly scrub.
 
This thread may help you. From your photo I don't think you used enough product to make a good, rich, protective lather. I prefer a lather that is a bit thicker than your photo shows. Soap and cream are relatively cheap so don't skimp on using them.

 

musicman1951

three-tu-tu, three-tu-tu
First things first: you should not be getting that many weepers daily. You need to change your technique. There are basically two ways to get a weeper, and many of us employed both at the same time when we were at the beginning of this journey.

1. Too much pressure. Use less, and then cut that in half. If you're not dropping the razor in the sink you've got plenty. Easy and immediately available.

2. Wrong razor angle. Everyone goes through this learning curve, and it's not as easy to fix as the pressure, but you'll get there. If you roll the razor too far back on the cap you'll eventually lift the blade off your face. Since that would obviously cut nothing it's a rare problem. If you go too far the other way you can make it easier to produce weepers. You're going to need to experiment a little, but I suggest you start by rolling back toward the cap.

Poor lather can make it easier to get weepers, but not a face full.

Face lather or bowl - doesn't really matter. Many people find a bowl easier at the beginning. If you use a bowl it can be anything: raid the kitchen and try a few sizes to see what you like. I would put the cream in the bowl and spread it out a little on the bottom. You want a damp brush. How damp? Too dry is better than too wet because it's easy to add more water, but the only thing that matters is how much water the cream requires.

I'd do a couple of test lathers (in a bowl or on your palm). You can squeeze or shake some water out of the brush at the start. For the first test start on the dry side and add water (4-5 drops) as you go. Mix in the water (10 seconds or so), look at your mix and then repeat. You will eventually get some nice looking lather. Keep adding water until you make some sloppy, thin, ugly lather. After that test you should have a pretty good idea of how much water you need, and how much is too much. If you had to add water 5 times you want to avoid that on your daily lathers - add more early on and get where you want to go.

GSB is a fine blade, but it's very sharp. Are you sure you need a blade that sharp? You might find fewer weepers at this point with a blade of more average sharpness. Nevertheless, the blade doesn't cause weepers, but sharper blades can make them easier to produce with poor technique.

Personally, I would live without the touch-ups until the weepers were seriously reduced. I would absolutely not do ATG touch-ups. I'm no magic shaver and I typically go 3 months between weepers. It's a learning process, but you do want to be on that road. If you do what you did, you'll get what you got.
 
If you want to apply it to your face and do face lathering (Which I Prefer). Get yourself a soap stick. There are many. A good cheap start would be Arko.
I have a stick of La Toja as well, but a couple people on another thread suggested the cream would be easier to start with. I'll give the cream another shave or 2 then switch to the stick for a couple to see which I like better.

Using what you've got to lather in a bowl might be a very useful exercise. That way you can add water and see how the lather reacts as you whip it up with your brush. Then you can experiment with the amount of water that you like in your lather. The amount of water you incorporate in the lather has a pretty dramatic impact on the lather's performance during a shave.
+1 on bowl lather. I’m not that far ahead of you on the learning curve and I found the bowl was a good way to build a lather and learn how much water and agitation to use. I started with a small corelle soup bowl/cup, so you may not even need another purchase to experiment. Put the cream on the brush or in the bowl and give it a whirl.
Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. I'd rather face lather than bowl lather for my regular shaves, but that makes sense to experiment with getting the right consistency.

I mainly use a 26mm synthetic brush and found that I was not using enough water at the start. I was squeezing too much out. A half hearted shake does well for me. I do not paint. I swirl and lightly scrub.
Pretty sure I shook too much out yesterday. Probably too much cream too.

This thread may help you. From your photo I don't think you used enough product to make a good, rich, protective lather. I prefer a lather that is a bit thicker than your photo shows. Soap and cream are relatively cheap so don't skimp on using them.
That was helpful. I had a lot of cream left over in my brush even after 3 passes, so I suspect it may have been the opposite problem, not enough water to thicken it up. But like you said in the first post from your link, all I ever used for 30 years was canned stuff, then more recently experimented with VDH and Cremo, so I had no idea what to expect. I've watched a ton of videos but I still wasn't sure how thick to expect my cream to get before it gets too watery. I found a good thread with pictures here about face lathering with a cream, but unfortunately most of the pictures don't show up for some reason.
 
Great advice above!

For what it is worth, I prefer to lather creams in a bowl. I also find it easier to use a good quality shave stick, like La Toja or Speick, than most creams. Start with a damp brush then add a few drops of water at a time until you get the lather you want.
 
@T Bone - this thread may prove useful for you: Foolproof Lather Method (TM) - any soap - any brush - https://www.badgerandblade.com/forum/threads/foolproof-lather-method-tm-any-soap-any-brush.613233/ In any event the photos show what a nice lather looks like.

Your La Toja stick should be good if you want to face lather. Many of us find it an excellent, easy-to-lather choice. I use it, especially when traveling, and find that wetting your face, rubbing the stick ATG to get a fine film of soap on your face, then adding water slowly while swirling your brush on your face helps La Toja explode into a rich protective lather.
 
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I saw you asked if your lather was too dry. For me it is, but then I typically use a straight and prefer a wetter lather. Even on the odd occasion I use a DE I have what would be considered a wet lather.
 
#1 on Musicman's advice. I don't believe that the bet lather or soap in the world will overcome flawed technique and the frequent weepers and irritation are more likely technique related than lather related and technique may need some tweaks for different razors. I have the same issues with specific razors when I take them out of rotation for extended time and then pick them up again. Case in point- I am taking a break from my Parker Variant because of those same issues after a period of using gentler razors. I find that it sometimes takes me a day or two to adapt to a razor when I shift. I find that using an alum block after every shave gives me a good read on where I need to be more careful. Working on pressure and angle will get you where you want to be and you can continue to develop your lathering skills and preferences.
 
I agree with lathering in a bowl to start. Just get a cereal bowl or similar from the kitchen and use it, something maybe 5-6" in diameter and 3" or so deep. I recommend watching YouTube as I think it is much easier than interpreting written instructions; "Geofatboy" (among others) has some great "how to" lathering videos.

This is also a great lather bowl, and cheap:

Screen Shot 2022-01-11 at 12.51.56 PM.png


As far as water on the brush, I figure I can always add water but I can't take it away so I tend to start a little on the dry side. I've seen people give two shakes, a squeeze in the middle of the brush, a squeeze on the end, all manner of different moves -- I like to get the brush really soaked and then shake/squeeze so that it is not dripping, adding back water as needed.
 
No need to get a bowl. Few tips from my perspective.

  1. let the brush soak, before use drain most of the water, it should be damp only
  2. take at least half less amount of Speick cream. No need to use any other, this stuff rocks
  3. apply the cream with your finger to the top of your damp brush
  4. paint it on your face, using paint strokes only
  5. continu step 4 by dipping brush lightly with tips in water and continue painting
  6. when you have reached the phase that you can see your skin through the soap on your face, you may start working the brush on your face, us8ng swirling motions
  7. make sure you USE the brush, no time for petting
  8. you may need to add even more water during this phase
  9. by now the lather should have exploded into more than enough for 2 or 3 passes


good luck and let us know! There is a good youtube video for this approach, just don’t have it here
 
This is going to sound a little odd but if you have naturally oil skin try rubbing a small amount of 100% Grapeseed oil into your skin before you apply the shave soap to your face. It helps
 

steveclarkus

Goose Poop Connoisseur
I've been getting a good DFS doing 3 passes (WTG/XTG/ATG) with my Henson mild using just Cremo, but I also get weepers nearly every shave, which I don't like. The B&B advice was that I really need to use a brush and better cream or soap, so I ordered a PAA Starcraft and some Speick cream, and loaded a GSB (current #1 in the Mass Appeal Blade thread) into my Henson.

So now I'm returning to the Shave Clinic. I'm 50 but I feel like a teenager trying to do this for the first time, and there's surprisingly little in the way of basic instructions (at least not that I could find), so I'm hoping y'all can provide some feedback here!

First, I wet my Starcraft. I'm not sure, should it be soaking wet, should the water drip out, or should I shake or squeeze it out? I thought I read somewhere here to shake it, but I couldn't find where I saw that. Still, it seemed a happy medium between drip and squeeze, so I shook.
View attachment 1391749

Then I wet my face and took this much Speick...
View attachment 1391752

...and smeared it on my face and neck.
View attachment 1391753

Then I swirled and painted with the brush for I don't know, probably 30 seconds? Maybe a minute?
View attachment 1391759

I'm not sure how it should be, but that seems kinda dry. Is that dry? Or did I not swirl and paint enough? I think it's dry. Sprinkled some more water on the brush and swirled and painted a bit more. Still dry I think, so I did it again, now it looks like this:
View attachment 1391760

I'm not sure that's still all that much better, but I don't want to overdo the water either, so I went with it. That GSB is smooth! This is the first time I've used a GSB too, maybe I should have used a blade I'm more familiar with so I'd know if any difference is the blade or the cream. Anyway, I wet my face again after the first pass - not trying to rinse off any residual cream, but just to get it wet again. Was I supposed to do that? Then I swirled/painted on some more from the brush. Same after the XTG pass. There was still plenty on the brush to go around:
View attachment 1391766

ATG I got a weeper at one corner of my mustache and one on my neck. 😖 Feeling my face, I still needed some cleanup on both jawlines and both sides of my adam's apple. There's still more than plenty cream on the brush, which makes me think that little smidge of cream was still way more than I needed! Unfortunately, cleaning up the neck produced a good dozen weepers on the right side. 😖😖 I'll spare you all that picture. Happily, the bleeding stopped rinsing with cold water before even applying alum. Alum feedback was strong on the mustache and (predictably) on the neck, but pretty mild everywhere else.

Thanks anyone who read this far. In the end, it was a DFS, and 3 hours later I can feel just a couple spots I could have done better. I do wish I could quit with the weepers. And this took a full 30 minutes, which is entirely more time than I have most days, though I don't expect to be taking pics most of the time either. Any feedback would be appreciated - either general feedback or answers to specific questions above. Hopefully not too bad for a middle aged 18-year-old!
When I use cream, I just put a dollop of cream, about half of what you are using, on a wet but shaken out brush and face lather. When I get the lather on my face, I dip the tips of the brush in water then hydrate the lather to a rather thin wet lather. I find bowl lathering cream is a waste of time and cream. The wetter the lather the slicker the lather but it shouldn’t be so wet it drips off your face.
 
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