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- #21
Unfortunately while I was timing it I forgot to stop the timer lol. Got to darn excited about it. Next time I’ll have to keep my concentration and turn the timer off lol.
First time roasting beans.
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If your phone has a lap timer function, you can hit lap at the first sound of popping then hit stop right before dumping. If you get into the details enough, there are other points where you might want to hit lap later on. That is a fast roast, but I think it’s the way poppers are!
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- #23
Got these in today.
Congrats and welcome to the best rabbit hole ever. I don't know anything about the beans you purchased, but I have yet to roast anything that wasn't better than store brands.I hope you let us know how it goes and please feel free to ask questions. There are, at least to me, a surprising number who roast on this forum.
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- #25
Some of the newest beans. The darker one was 48 seconds after the first crack ended. The lighter one was 48 seconds after I heard the first crack.
You aren't waisting any time! I would definitely time from when you first hear popping as we aren't sure second crack is distinct enough. So if you remember, I said time from 1st crack for a 4:30 roast should be 1:00-1:15. What this tells us is that there is too much heat as expected, shortening this phase of the roast. It's better that it's faster than slower so you don't get baked beans! With roasters, you generally ramp down the heat right before first crack. There is usually enough heat in there to complete the roast(there is a whole side track on rate of rise, it should be declining). Popper, the branded machine, has a heat control. I haven't done it myself, but you might be able to get a cheap voltage controller that plugs into the outlet between the machine and turn it down some at first crack. I have been careful not to get into the weeds too much because you don't have a lot of control, but I am sure there are solutions.
You can see the cracks in the one on the right compared to the one on the left, that's usually a sign of second crack. As mentioned above, the beans probably aren't all progressing the same. It all looks good and usable so enjoy!
Here is chart of the roast process with a commercial roaster. You can't control these, but maybe it will give you something to think about. Note how much longer the roast takes.
scroll down a little
You can see the cracks in the one on the right compared to the one on the left, that's usually a sign of second crack. As mentioned above, the beans probably aren't all progressing the same. It all looks good and usable so enjoy!
Here is chart of the roast process with a commercial roaster. You can't control these, but maybe it will give you something to think about. Note how much longer the roast takes.
From Green To Perfectly Roasted: Easy Coffee Roasting Guide
This coffee roasting guide will help you achieve the perfect roast for the freshest and best tasting coffee possible. See our roasting profiles and charts here.
www.coffeegrindguru.com
scroll down a little
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- #27
The saga continues. Today it was a bean from Peru that I got it a sampler pack. From start to finish was 6:05 with the first crack starting at 4:30.
I use a home rigged cooler this time to get the beans cooled faster. Also added a make shift chimney instead of the popper shoot. I wanted a dark roast on this one.
I use a home rigged cooler this time to get the beans cooled faster. Also added a make shift chimney instead of the popper shoot. I wanted a dark roast on this one.
That is an excellent job! Congratulations and enjoy. I bet your next batch of Yemen is going to be great.
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- #29
Thank you for all your help, much appreciated
Thanks to some friendly enabling on the forum (Hi Chris!), I too started roasting my own coffee beans a few weeks ago. And all I can say is that once that door is opened, you never want to go back! Looks like I like a darker roast than your examples. I tried roasting milder, but it seemed more bitter for some reason. Today's batch was something like 3:45-4:00 in for the first pop, with me removing things at ~7:30. Followed with a decaf for 3:15 for the first pop, continuing to around 6:00. All I can say is that the coffee I've roasted myself has been delicious.
Some new beans I've ordered from Sweet Maria's call for a milder roast, so I will try to scale back things there.
I was gifted a popcorn popper, and following a recommendation from the Sweet Maria's website, I've taken a chimney from one of my oil lanterns to use instead of the plastic hood that came with the machine. Works great! The beans are stirred with the handle of a long wooden spoon (holding the spoon), while wearing a dedicated pair of leather work gloves and safety glasses to protect my eyes from heat.
Some new beans I've ordered from Sweet Maria's call for a milder roast, so I will try to scale back things there.
I was gifted a popcorn popper, and following a recommendation from the Sweet Maria's website, I've taken a chimney from one of my oil lanterns to use instead of the plastic hood that came with the machine. Works great! The beans are stirred with the handle of a long wooden spoon (holding the spoon), while wearing a dedicated pair of leather work gloves and safety glasses to protect my eyes from heat.
Just so you know, what you are experiencing is called stalling. The time after first crack really shouldn't be above 30% of total even for a darker roast. You are near 50%! The quickest solution is probably to decrease your batch size. Enjoy the process and it's results.
I'll keep this in mind, thanks. I have sort of been thinking that it is a little bit less than doubling the time from when first starts to pop, but mostly going by visuals at the end. Like I said, I'm liking the dark roast--the beans are not blackened. I have tried batches of 3 oz. and 4 oz. and have noticed that the time involved varies, 3 oz. being longer if I recall correctly (perhaps due to more hot air passage in the shoot due to a lesser density of coffee bean), but I'm going by the visual effect at the end in both cases, also knowing that it darkens a little bit further as it cools.
The next beans call for a milder grind, so I'll shoot for 30% on these for starters.
I wouldn't shoot for 30% right away. Because you mentioned that the beans aren't getting that dark plus the long time after first, what happens is there isn't enough heat for the beans to fully develop. That's why it is called a stall, it is a temperature stall. Specifically, the bean temperature. Given a fixed amount of heat, each bean needs a certain amount of BTU to roast, your only adjustment is batch size(less beans). Also, 30% is a high number. Most roasts need to be around 22-25%, I just randomly said 30 because I haven't done really dark roasts(I can look it up). It's all within a pretty tight range. For the roast time Wid is getting, we are talking about 15 seconds from medium into dark. Outside of standard parameters, you are baking instead of roasting. I was trying not to say anything negative, but you mentioned a bitter taste. If it tastes wooden, that's a sign of baked. The sugars fail to caramelise without enough heat. This is the same process as making crispy skin on your chicken, it needs enough heat to complete the Maillard reaction. Going by the look can be deceptive, the inside may not be developed. This is why I was going on about keeping track of times, you have no other gauges to consult without temperature probes.
Above all, please have fun and realise that I am trying to interpret a basic roasting profile onto a machine not originally made for purpose. The basic profile is something many people have come to through experience and produces predictable results. Like what Wid is getting now.
I don't know how reliable the typical "percentage" rules of thumb are when you're dealing with a roast that's so quick. The same rules of thumb tell you that 4:30 is far too quick to reach first crack.
Rao and others suggest that the absolute time for different stages can matter as much as percentages do. I suspect that the value of percentage benchmarks begins to lessen and even break down altogether when you're looking at an extremely quick or slow roast.
Rao and others suggest that the absolute time for different stages can matter as much as percentages do. I suspect that the value of percentage benchmarks begins to lessen and even break down altogether when you're looking at an extremely quick or slow roast.
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- #35
Kind Of curious at what time you expect the first crack to happen?
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- #37
I’m considering an actual roaster. The hot air popper is making some nice coffee. If it gets better with a roaster I’m in.
I agree of course, it’s all I have to go with since I have never used a popper. Wid’s roasts seem to fit into that framework and he is getting nice roasts now, but I concede that it may be coincidence.
9-10 minutes to 1c is pretty late on an air popper. I shoot for that with bigger batches on my bullet, but I get great results with 453g roasts with a 9 minute total roast time (~212C final temp, 1c ~6:30). Lighter roasts go even quicker.
The comment about needing to stir the beans is moot when the whole point of the air popper is that the airflow circulates the beans. That's how I decided my batch size on them: if the airflow wasn't spinning the beans in the chamber, I'd remove beans until it started to.
In my opinion, the best thing about an actual roaster is the larger batch size. There are some roasts I will never forget, but hopefully one day reproduce, that I did with an air popper. An Ethiopia Yirgacheffe with a straight up blueberry pancake taste that would be insulted if I called it "notes." Deep chocolate Guatemala Huehuetanango that made me wonder if I'd swapped my cup out for an unsweetened mocha.
I definitely get more repeatable roasts on my current setup. It's way less of a chore to roast for other people now. It's really cool to be able to tweak different parameters. I'm very happy with my roaster...
But the steps between air popper and $3k roaster had me looking back constantly. Air poppers make fantastic coffee!
My roaster progression, for context:
Many different air poppers
iRoast 2
Gene Cafe CBR-101
Aillio Bullet R1 v2
Edit: I forgot to mention that I love your cooling setup. It took me years to try using a fan, because flipping my beans around in a mesh strainer was "good enough."
My wonderful girlfriend tried using an old fan underneath the same strainer, and it cut cooling time in half for 1/4lb batches.
The comment about needing to stir the beans is moot when the whole point of the air popper is that the airflow circulates the beans. That's how I decided my batch size on them: if the airflow wasn't spinning the beans in the chamber, I'd remove beans until it started to.
In my opinion, the best thing about an actual roaster is the larger batch size. There are some roasts I will never forget, but hopefully one day reproduce, that I did with an air popper. An Ethiopia Yirgacheffe with a straight up blueberry pancake taste that would be insulted if I called it "notes." Deep chocolate Guatemala Huehuetanango that made me wonder if I'd swapped my cup out for an unsweetened mocha.
I definitely get more repeatable roasts on my current setup. It's way less of a chore to roast for other people now. It's really cool to be able to tweak different parameters. I'm very happy with my roaster...
But the steps between air popper and $3k roaster had me looking back constantly. Air poppers make fantastic coffee!
My roaster progression, for context:
Many different air poppers
iRoast 2
Gene Cafe CBR-101
Aillio Bullet R1 v2
Edit: I forgot to mention that I love your cooling setup. It took me years to try using a fan, because flipping my beans around in a mesh strainer was "good enough."
My wonderful girlfriend tried using an old fan underneath the same strainer, and it cut cooling time in half for 1/4lb batches.
I should've added that your time to first crack sounds like it's in the typical range for a popper.
As far as drum roasters go, I must say that I'm very, very happy with my Hottop, and I was happy enough with the Behmor for a while. I especially love the how I can hook up the Hottop to my laptop (via Artisan) for real time monitoring and control (and to save roast profiles for later review or comparison).
However, you ought to continue to have fun with what popper. You're enjoying your roasting and your roasts, and that's what this is all about!
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