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First Straight Razor Shave a Disaster!

G'day Everyone,

I finally plucked up the courage to have a go at shaving with a straight razor. I have a Bengall Imperial that has been in the family for as long as I can remember and I sent it away to get it cleaned and honed. It was already in pretty good nick but the edge definitely needed bringing back to shave ready condition. It came back before Christmas but I hadn't got up the nerve to try it out.

I have been wet shaving with DE razors for a while so this was the next logical step. I must admit that the straight razor is intimidating and having read all the stories about the razor gangs in Sydney in the 1920's going around slashing each other with razors, my imagination ran wild. Chicago gangsters used Tommy guns - Australian gangsters used cut throat razors - a far more scary weapon.

Anyway I digress - the guy that honed the razor (a reputable honer btw) didn't mention that it need stropping, but after watching numerous Youtube clips and reading the forums, I stropped it anyway. I bought a cheap-arse razor kit some months ago, a chinese straight razor, strop, brush and stand along with a wooden soap bowl. You don't expect much for fifty bucks on ebay but the wooden brush stand and wooden bowl were pretty good and worth the $50. The razor was pretty much as you would expect. However, I figured the strop might be OK.

Today is a public holiday in Australia and my partner was working, so I decided to bite the bullet and enter the world of straight razors. I got out all the bits and pieces and stropped the razor - 50 passes. It cut the hair on my arm. Next was to do the lathering etc. All pretty straight forward so far. And there I was in front of the bathroom mirror, lather on face holding the razor wondering how all this works. Of course the Youtubers make it look easy. I just couldn't figure out how to get the first stroke from the side burn area down to the jaw line. Which hand do you use? I tried both and on either side of my face. Still haven't made a stroke yet. First stroke - tried to get the angle right but the razor wouldn't move on my face. Apparently you don't use pressure, just scrape the lather off and the blade does the rest - this wasn't happening. Tried on the other side, same thing. Eventually, I dragged it down my face and I could feel the blade chattering on my whiskers (only a one day growth BTW). It really took effort and it tugged like anything. So I kept going and things didn't get better. Ended up getting out the DE and doing it properly.

What went wrong? Obviously the blade wasn't sharp enough. It cut my arm hairs but dragged on that also. I paid over $50 for the hone plus postage. Not sure if I got my money's worth there. Will email the guy tomorrow and discuss it with him. Did I ruin the edge when I stropped it? Was the strop just cheap crap and it took the edge of the blade? I would have expected the blade to be shave ready - maybe it was and I stropped it incorrectly. Not sure about any of this.

At least there wasn't any blood!

cheers
Andrew
 
Hello and welcome to straight shaving. A shave ready razor should cut hair above the skin of the arm. It is easy to roll the edge on a razor if you make a mistake in your stropping and put pressure on the edge instead of the spine. That could be the cause of the razor not being sharp enough. Check out the shave clinic forums. Keep working at it and you should do fine.
 
Owning a straight razor and not being able to keep it sharp makes little sense. For under $40 you can get some lapping film, follow Slashes videos and get it back in shape. You need to watch some stropping videos too so you don't roll the edge again. You might be able to bring the edge back with proper stropping. A proper edge won't pull or have any of the characteristics you described.

The other possibility is poor beard prep. This also takes practice. Shaving after a hot shower with a really good lather makes a lot of difference.
 
As mentioned, a truly shave ready razor will "grab" hairs without touching the skin and cut them cleanly (the Treetopping test). If it won't treetop well, it won't shave well.

Also, must straight shavers make a "thinner" (more water) lather. You don't need mounds of lather that you will just have to rinse off the blade.

And finally, assuming the razor is sharp, make sure to keep a shallow blade angle (the spine almost flat against your skin, no more than a spine width off your skin).

It all takes practice, but it's extremely rewarding and enjoyable when you get there. But ... Make sure you start with a sharp razor.
 
Hello and welcome to straight shaving. A shave ready razor should cut hair above the skin of the arm. It is easy to roll the edge on a razor if you make a mistake in your stropping and put pressure on the edge instead of the spine. That could be the cause of the razor not being sharp enough. Check out the shave clinic forums. Keep working at it and you should do fine.
Great. From the sounds of it, I'm guessing I rolled the edge on mine too.
 
Thanks for the advice. A rolled edge sounds plausible and the most likely culprit. As it's the first time I have stropped a razor, I remember that on a few passes, I didn't turn the blade over on the spine but blade. The blade must have touched the strop etc. As I didn't have any blood, I am still keen to have another go. Will get the blade sorted. I don't think it was the lather etc as I have been shaving with a DE for a while and seem to have that under control.

Anyway, onwards and upwards

cheers
Andrew
 
Best advice, use a dull butter knife to practice stropping. Once you get the feel of the back and forth motion then try with your razor. The pressure you should have on your blade when it’s on the strop should be only the weight of the razor. Your hand should just “guide” the blade up and down it. Too much pressure will ruin the edge as well. It takes some practice. Also a good starting strop such as an Illinois brand strop from Amazon may improve your feel and can be had for less then $40.00 US.

Larry
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
When you say it cut arm hair, do you mean you actually stroked the razor ON your arm, touching the skin? That doesn't mean anything. That is no test for a razor. Your pocketknife should do that, with ease. A razor must be a LOT sharper than that. If you pass it 1/4" ABOVE the skin of your forearm, it should sever hair tips. We call that "treetopping". The bare minimum IMHO is it should get at least one or two hair tips per pass at a height of 1/8" above the skin of your forearm. That is marginal. We mostly consider that to be shave ready but barely so.

What is your definition of "reputable honer"? From where I sit, it would seem that he did a pretty sad job of honing your razor. I could be wrong, but if it won't treetop, you won't get much of a shave out of it. I think you need to reach out to your honer and tell him about your results. It wouldn't surprise me if he isn't even a straight shaver. NEVER let anyone who does not shave with a straight razor, hone yours. Just because he can make a knife sharp enough to shave a few arm hairs or slice paper or whatever, doesn't mean he knows anything about honing a razor. Thats a whole nother critter.

I seriously doubt you ruined your edge in only one stropping session.

How about posting pics of all your gear? Particularly your strop. And if the Chinese razor is a Gold Dollar, don't toss it. It can be honed and used. If it is one with big thick scales and brass or stainless steel bolsters like a pocketknife handle, yeah you can toss that. But give us a pic. And your Bengall. Bengalls have sort of a checkered reputation... quality has gone up and down. But it should still shave if honed by someone who knows what he is doing.

Lucky for you there are a lot of members in Australia and you can probably find someone you can send your razors to for honing while you learn to shave. Once you are shaving good, you will probably want to start honing your own razors. In the Honing sub forum, there is a sticky thread (permanently pinned to the top of the page) called "Newbie Honing Compendium". Read EVERYTHING in it when you think you are ready, from beginning to end, before you spend a penny on anything.
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Another thing. The standard angle for shaving is simply found. Place the razor flat against your cheek. Now raise the spine of the razor away from the skin with the edge still on the skin. The gap between the spine and your face should be equal to the thickness of the spine. That is your standard shave angle. A very sharp razor will need the spine kept closer to the skin. An extremely sharp razor will have you practically dragging the spine on your face. A dull razor might have you leaning the razor out to about one and a half spine thicknesses. NO MORE!!!!!!!!! A higher shave angle than necessary is SCRAPING, not shaving. If it won't shave at all at one spine thickness, it is dull. Dull. Dull. Scraping will irritate your face, maybe cut you, and BTW this will put a lot more wear on your razor's edge than a low shave angle.

Read some more threads. Educate yourself. Watch more youtube. Just remember that there are some guys out there who are expert and some who are idiots. Keep your BS filters on. Vids recommended on this forum should be okay.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
Thanks for the advice. A rolled edge sounds plausible and the most likely culprit. As it's the first time I have stropped a razor, I remember that on a few passes, I didn't turn the blade over on the spine but blade. The blade must have touched the strop etc. As I didn't have any blood, I am still keen to have another go. Will get the blade sorted. I don't think it was the lather etc as I have been shaving with a DE for a while and seem to have that under control.

Anyway, onwards and upwards

cheers
Andrew

Welcome to the straight razor rabbit hole.

Sounds like maybe you rolled the edge. In any case it sounds like the edge when you shaved wasn't sharp. Possibly that's on the strop, or on the strop user (you), or on the honer you hired. There is a big learning curve but the razor has to be sharp or nothing happens, it feels very tuggy, the razor won't move along easily, etc.

Everyone says the various hair cutting tests (hanging hair test, tree topping test) work for them and I'm sure they do. I've not gotten these tests sorted out at all. The only test that works well for me is the shave test (although the finger-pad test is useful).

The razor should shave easily with its spine very close to the skin. If it does that, it's sharp.

You don't need a fine, expensive strop just yet and shouldn't buy one, but you need a decent enough strop. Slash has mentioned various times a cheap enough strop sold on both eBay and Amazon which he believes decent enough to begin on. I've heard of guys without enough money to buy any strop successfully stropping on newspaper. However, the stropping must be done correctly.

Stropping is so important many of us post a lot about it. Here's a link to one of my better posts on the subject (not saying my post is definitive); it contains some good information I borrowed from other guys. Here's a link to some of my other posts on stropping just to illustrate how important the subject is to me.

Done wrong stropping can ruin an edge. Not saying that's what happened to your edge of course but I think it could be why your edge was dull.

If I've learned anything about straight razor shaving it's that the edge must be sharp. I've purchased a number of "shave ready" razors, some from vendors regarded pretty highly on this board, and found most of them not shave ready (although a few have been, from a particular vendor).

Oh, it's a big rabbit hole but worth the trouble (at least it is to me).

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
My intial though was the the razor was not sharp on delivery (before stropping). IME you need to be really careless but its not impossible to roll the edge when stropping the razor.

Does any part of the blade treetop?
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
My initial though was the the razor was not sharp on delivery (before stropping).

I believe this is a real possibility.

The OP said it was honed by a reputable honer. I'm not sure what that means, but my experience tells me it doesn't always mean much. Yes, I know there are excellent honers for hire, but there are a lot of self named honemeisters out there whose edges have not impressed me. By that I mean the edges I could produce early in my honing journey, edges far less sharp than my current edges, were clearly sharper than the edges I received from these guys.

Trust me on this. I'm not a very good honer yet. Just a fumbling about amateur at best. However, I have the huge advantage of time. To a honer for hire the process must be fast. Otherwise it's not worth doing for money.

I know too that the process can be fast for some honers. One honer I know (and won't name because he doesn't want the business) has told me how many minutes it takes him. About as long as it takes me to eat an apple. His edges are sharp too. How does he do that? I have no idea, but I know he's using stones I don't own and don't know how to use, and I know he's had worlds of experience with fine knives and razors. He's an edge guy!

Again, I'm only a beginner at honing, but I can literally spend hours honing a razor on my slow Arkansas stones and still have it not be sharp enough. Or, sometimes, I can successfully complete the process in perhaps half an hour beginning with an eBay special (but that's rare). The point I'm making is it takes time and experience. Even with experience it still takes time; for the guys trying to make money as honers time is money.

Yes, there may be honers for hire doing it as a sideline business which is partly a hobby. For them it may be different. There may be others for whom the pride of a gloriously sharp edge is the motivation and the heck with the time it takes. I don't know many honers for hire.

Some in my experience of their edges just aren't up to snuff.

Sorry for the rant, but it might be the OP's razor wasn't sharp from the get go.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 
If requested Jarrod sends these out truly shave ready honed on a Coticule at no extra cost.
https://thesuperiorshave.com/product/dovo-best-quality-5-8/. I have one in my rotation and it shaves as the same as the rest. I like it because it is full hollow and I think they shave the best. In fact I gifted all my razors that were not at least full hollow except my Gold Dollars that I spent so much time modifying. Adding jimps, re-profiling etc... You don't need the weight of the razor to shave if the edge is proper.
 

Chan Eil Whiskers

Fumbling about.
If requested Jarrod sends these out truly shave ready honed on a Coticule at no extra cost.
https://thesuperiorshave.com/product/dovo-best-quality-5-8/. I have one in my rotation and it shaves as the same as the rest. I like it because it is full hollow and I think they shave the best. In fact I gifted all my razors that were not at least full hollow except my Gold Dollars that I spent so much time modifying. Adding jimps, re-profiling etc... You don't need the weight of the razor to shave if the edge is proper.

I had read somewhere Jarrod has changed to using only convex Arkansas stones in his honing, but that might be incorrect. It's not like I play poker with him every Saturday night.

Your point is right regardless. He sells sharp razors, truly shave ready, which you're attesting to. Very important, sharp.

Happy shaves,

Jim
 

steveclarkus

Goose Poop Connoisseur
G'day Everyone,

I finally plucked up the courage to have a go at shaving with a straight razor. I have a Bengall Imperial that has been in the family for as long as I can remember and I sent it away to get it cleaned and honed. It was already in pretty good nick but the edge definitely needed bringing back to shave ready condition. It came back before Christmas but I hadn't got up the nerve to try it out.

I have been wet shaving with DE razors for a while so this was the next logical step. I must admit that the straight razor is intimidating and having read all the stories about the razor gangs in Sydney in the 1920's going around slashing each other with razors, my imagination ran wild. Chicago gangsters used Tommy guns - Australian gangsters used cut throat razors - a far more scary weapon.

Anyway I digress - the guy that honed the razor (a reputable honer btw) didn't mention that it need stropping, but after watching numerous Youtube clips and reading the forums, I stropped it anyway. I bought a cheap-arse razor kit some months ago, a chinese straight razor, strop, brush and stand along with a wooden soap bowl. You don't expect much for fifty bucks on ebay but the wooden brush stand and wooden bowl were pretty good and worth the $50. The razor was pretty much as you would expect. However, I figured the strop might be OK.

Today is a public holiday in Australia and my partner was working, so I decided to bite the bullet and enter the world of straight razors. I got out all the bits and pieces and stropped the razor - 50 passes. It cut the hair on my arm. Next was to do the lathering etc. All pretty straight forward so far. And there I was in front of the bathroom mirror, lather on face holding the razor wondering how all this works. Of course the Youtubers make it look easy. I just couldn't figure out how to get the first stroke from the side burn area down to the jaw line. Which hand do you use? I tried both and on either side of my face. Still haven't made a stroke yet. First stroke - tried to get the angle right but the razor wouldn't move on my face. Apparently you don't use pressure, just scrape the lather off and the blade does the rest - this wasn't happening. Tried on the other side, same thing. Eventually, I dragged it down my face and I could feel the blade chattering on my whiskers (only a one day growth BTW). It really took effort and it tugged like anything. So I kept going and things didn't get better. Ended up getting out the DE and doing it properly.

What went wrong? Obviously the blade wasn't sharp enough. It cut my arm hairs but dragged on that also. I paid over $50 for the hone plus postage. Not sure if I got my money's worth there. Will email the guy tomorrow and discuss it with him. Did I ruin the edge when I stropped it? Was the strop just cheap crap and it took the edge of the blade? I would have expected the blade to be shave ready - maybe it was and I stropped it incorrectly. Not sure about any of this.

At least there wasn't any blood!

cheers
Andrew
I think the first straight shave being a disaster is the norm. Don’t worry about it. You might consider picking up an inexpensive half blade shavette to learn to shave with while you are learning to hone and strop. The advice above about film and following “The Method” is spot on. You will be getting very good edges in a week or two if you follow the instructions exactly. I started that way then bought stones and am now going back to film. The stuff can’t be beat and it is very inexpensive. You can get film from Chinese sellers on eBay for about $25 US for a full set. Now regarding your Bengall razor, they are wonderful and were heavily marketed in Australia. I have two and all I can say is to buy them when you find them. You are fortunate to be in Bengall heaven!
 
Just think of it as lesson #1 and a practice shave for round #2. The biggest part of straight shaving is managing the razon on your face and it appear you have started to learn that without incident which is going to be valuable for the next round.

Keep at it, take your time and just take small steps towards the final full face shave.
 
It looks like my original thread got resurrected! Just an update on my straight razor journey - The Bengall got sent off to the UK for re-honing. As yet, it still hasn't arrived and it's been three weeks in the post. It's probably been delayed due to the Corona virus slowing everything up. It's frustrating as I would love to get it back.

In the meantime, I bought a "shave ready" Gold Dollar from Fleabay to muck about with. It wasn't shave ready either but it did shave better than the Bengal. Currently I am up to shave number 7 !! I also bought a Shapton 12k stone and have been trying to hone the 66 to get it sharper but it's not working - could be my technique and it could be the razor. I did this once a week for 5 shaves and my shaving technique is getting better but not the edge.

I took it a bit further and killed the edge on a glass and went 4k, 8k, and 12k. Lots of honing issues and the back half of the blade didn't seem to hone like the front half. I have a feeling that the shoulder needs removing as it didn't seem to sit flat on the hone. My inexperience is absolutely killing me. Anyway I sort of got it shaving again but on shave number 7 I wasn't even sure it was cutting any whiskers. With all the shaves so far, I just do one pass with the straight and finish up with a DE. Last couple of shaves I have been progressing from a pass and a half to two passes.

Only one nick so far - I get much worse nicks with the DE, especially with Astra blades. They are sharp, in the same way that broken glass is sharp.

I might just wait until the Bengall gets back before I try again.

Thanks for all the helpful comments. They have been a big help.

cheers
Andrew
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
It looks like my original thread got resurrected! Just an update on my straight razor journey - The Bengall got sent off to the UK for re-honing. As yet, it still hasn't arrived and it's been three weeks in the post. It's probably been delayed due to the Corona virus slowing everything up. It's frustrating as I would love to get it back.

In the meantime, I bought a "shave ready" Gold Dollar from Fleabay to muck about with. It wasn't shave ready either but it did shave better than the Bengal. Currently I am up to shave number 7 !! I also bought a Shapton 12k stone and have been trying to hone the 66 to get it sharper but it's not working - could be my technique and it could be the razor. I did this once a week for 5 shaves and my shaving technique is getting better but not the edge.

I took it a bit further and killed the edge on a glass and went 4k, 8k, and 12k. Lots of honing issues and the back half of the blade didn't seem to hone like the front half. I have a feeling that the shoulder needs removing as it didn't seem to sit flat on the hone. My inexperience is absolutely killing me. Anyway I sort of got it shaving again but on shave number 7 I wasn't even sure it was cutting any whiskers. With all the shaves so far, I just do one pass with the straight and finish up with a DE. Last couple of shaves I have been progressing from a pass and a half to two passes.

Only one nick so far - I get much worse nicks with the DE, especially with Astra blades. They are sharp, in the same way that broken glass is sharp.

I might just wait until the Bengall gets back before I try again.

Thanks for all the helpful comments. They have been a big help.

cheers
Andrew

What a surprise... a shave ready GD on fleabay that isn't shave ready at all. LOL it is pretty common.

Glassing the edge accomplishes nothing, only gives you more work to do in honing. You need to reset the bevel, now.

Keep the shoulder and stabilizer off the hone. If the shoulder rides up on the hone you are lifting the heel end and honing the toe and not the heel. You will probably find that honing with the heel leading a bit will help you. Removing the shoulder is not a simple task. Removing or partially removing the stabilizer isn't so much of a project.

The good news is it is only a GD66 and it is okay to just go nuts on it. Definitely a candidate for setting the bevel by the burr method. Read the Newbie Honing Compendium sticky at the top of the honing subforum.
 
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