What's new

First Straight Razor - Any advice?

What brand 12k stone?

Regardless, the 12k is only a finisher. You cannot set a bevel with that level of stone. Well, you could, but it would take a very long time and you would definitely wear that stone down a lot. And you would have to re lap several times, I think. Have you lapped your stone? It needs to be lapped before use and lapped again periodically. Honing a razor from scratch calls for a bevel setter, a couple of intermediate grit stones, and a finisher. Sometimes a coarse repair stone before the bevel setter. Same goes for lapping film except of course you don't have to lap your lapping film, just use it on a verifiably flat base.

It is exceedingly difficult and potentially frustrating and confusing to try to learn to hone a razor that you are also trying to learn to shave with. I once recommended absolutely against even trying this. I still think it is way harder than simply starting out with a sharp razor, experiencing the edge, learning to shave and appreciate what the razor does and how it behaves on the face, and THEN learning to hone it once it gets dull. However lately it has been a thing, for newbies to start out with an unproven razor, hone it using The Method, testing for sharpness using the treetop test or the HHT, and then try shaving with it. Shaving arm hair is no test of a razor. It is a test of a pocketknife. A razor is levels of magnitude sharper than that. It should treetop, or else give a solid HHT4, for a nice easy shave. Your pocketknife can't do that. Check out the Newbie Honing Compendium. READ the base threads beginning to end. They will answer all of your questions. If you can follow directions, you can probably learn to hone, and get it right by probably the second or third attempt. Maybe even the first time at bat, if you don't try to freestyle it or leave out stuff or substitute stuff. The Method is inexpensive, easy to learn, even for a newbie, and gives better than professional quality edges once you are nailing it. A 12k rock by itself does not a Method Edge make.

A Gold Dollar is nice steel. Crudely ground, and having IMHO rather poor geometry, but it can certainly be made to shave and GDs have many happy owners. Properly honed, it will give you way more than your money's worth.
Finally got around to putting steel to stone today. Just haven't had time until now, with the holidays and all. Before I began, I stumbled across your thread on the burr method. I know this method, and have used it with success on many knives... But I still had a ton of ah-ha moments while reading through your text.

Thank you.

I've set it aside to try and shave with tomorrow. It's sharp... but I have a feeling it's not ready. Even after reading your advice, I still managed to let the shoulder if the razor ride-up and ruin hours of bevel setting [emoji58]. After much wasted steel, I did finally set a bevel, but never got it to where it would tree-top. I just don't think I spent enough time on the progression.

The shave will tell me, of this I'm sure.



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
Finally got around to putting steel to stone today. Just haven't had time until now, with the holidays and all. Before I began, I stumbled across your thread on the burr method. I know this method, and have used it with success on many knives... But I still had a ton of ah-ha moments while reading through your text.

Thank you.

I've set it aside to try and shave with tomorrow. It's sharp... but I have a feeling it's not ready. Even after reading your advice, I still managed to let the shoulder if the razor ride-up and ruin hours of bevel setting [emoji58]. After much wasted steel, I did finally set a bevel, but never got it to where it would tree-top. I just don't think I spent enough time on the progression.

The shave will tell me, of this I'm sure.



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
It shaves!

It's not amazing and a definitely think it could be sharper, but some of that could be my complete lack of skill/technique.

Still, no blood and comparable closeness w/ my de for same number of passes. I started to attempt an ATG pass but abandoned that idea in favor of walking away from this first SR shave as a success [emoji12].

I'm going to shave w/ as-is for a few days (probably until next weekend) to see how much I can improve w/ technique and have a better feel for gauging any improvement gained from further honing.

All-in-all, it's the most fun I've had for $9 in quite a while.
proxy.php


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
It shaves!

It's not amazing and a definitely think it could be sharper, but some of that could be my complete lack of skill/technique.

Still, no blood and comparable closeness w/ my de for same number of passes. I started to attempt an ATG pass but abandoned that idea in favor of walking away from this first SR shave as a success [emoji12].

I'm going to shave w/ as-is for a few days (probably until next weekend) to see how much I can improve w/ technique and have a better feel for gauging any improvement gained from further honing.

All-in-all, it's the most fun I've had for $9 in quite a while.
proxy.php


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk


:a14::a14:
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
It shaves!

It's not amazing and a definitely think it could be sharper, but some of that could be my complete lack of skill/technique.

Still, no blood and comparable closeness w/ my de for same number of passes. I started to attempt an ATG pass but abandoned that idea in favor of walking away from this first SR shave as a success [emoji12].

I'm going to shave w/ as-is for a few days (probably until next weekend) to see how much I can improve w/ technique and have a better feel for gauging any improvement gained from further honing.

All-in-all, it's the most fun I've had for $9 in quite a while.
proxy.php


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk

Keeping all the red stuff inside your face is the objective for your first few shaves. Closeness will come in time, with experience. The standard sharpness tests will tell you if the edge is holding you back or not, but typically at this stage your progress is held back simply by lack of experience and learned skills. The obvious solution to that is to shave again. And again. And again and again and again, and after 40 or 50 shaves you should have it pretty well nailed. At some point in that process, the quality of the edge becomes the main limiting factor.

Another good $9 purchase at this point would be a "Magic Razor" brand shavette from Sallys Beauty Supply. Get the type that uses half of a DE blade. Shave with that... carefully. Very low shave angle, spine nearly dragging on the face. Stretch tight. Try two WTG passes. That will give you a comparison of edges while still using the same basic configuration as the straight razor. "Shave ready" straights are all over the board. Some guys enjoy a razor that is not so sharp but is more gentle. Some are not used to a very sharp razor. Some have never even shaved with a very sharp razor and would not want to do so. Some insist on the very sharpest edge possible, and rely on skill to get smoothness while the razor handles the sharpness. So yeah, a shave ready razor from a member or a recommended vendor would be an excellent addition to your den, but the shavette is more of a known quantity, sort of a universal standard.

Most edge failures are due to improperly set bevel. Next most common reason for a poor edge is too much pressure or misdirected pressure during progression and finish. The post finish treatment has the potential to greatly improve the edge once basic honing is mastered, but not before. If you can't set a bevel, further honing is a waste of time. If you can't get a good 8k edge, a 12k stone is a waste of money and even a 1u film is a waste of effort. If you can't get a good 12k or 1u edge, post finish on pasted balsa, even done correctly, is a waste of time and money. Achieving a truly great edge is a building process. Each stage requires that the stage before it be executed properly with all possible care and diligence.

A properly executed 8k edge can shave reasonably well. The 8k Norton was after all, the standard razor finisher, for a long time. At least in the U.S. and I guess Canada. It won't do well on the standard sharpness tests, and the shave will not be effortless. It will demand a bit of skill to get the requisite cutting power out of the razor. But it is a good milestone in your progress. If you can't shave off an 8k Naniwa, (or 3u lapping film) which is somewhat finer and higher quality than the 8k Norton, then there is no point visiting the next level of stone or film. Likewise, the pasted balsa.

Do take the time to read the linked threads (this is a lot of reading!) contained in the Newbie Honing Compendium, when you are ready to see what can be done to improve your edge.

Resetting the bevel repeatedly is a waste of steel. But you can afford to waste Chinese steel, so consider starting over again. Lead with the heel and this will help you to keep the shoulder from riding the hone. Your bevel must be at least nearly there, already, or you would not be so successful in your shave.

I hope you are honing in hand. It makes a difference, especially in the beginning of your honing journey. It helps you to quickly master pressure regulation and blade/hone alignment.

Bringing the shoulder up on the hone a time or two during honing is not the end of the world. If not done excessively, all it does is round up the toe a bit, maybe add a bit of smile at the end. Not a total deal breaker, but you must deal with it all through the progression if you want the toe sharp. However if the toe is not sharp, IMHO no big deal. Just makes the razor safer, like the round nosed scissors you used in first grade art class. I never worry overly much if the last 1/4" or so of the edge is not brilliantly sharp. As the rest of the blade wears, it will catch up, anyway, after a couple of decades.
 
Keeping all the red stuff inside your face is the objective for your first few shaves. Closeness will come in time, with experience. The standard sharpness tests will tell you if the edge is holding you back or not, but typically at this stage your progress is held back simply by lack of experience and learned skills. The obvious solution to that is to shave again. And again. And again and again and again, and after 40 or 50 shaves you should have it pretty well nailed. At some point in that process, the quality of the edge becomes the main limiting factor.

Another good $9 purchase at this point would be a "Magic Razor" brand shavette from Sallys Beauty Supply. Get the type that uses half of a DE blade. Shave with that... carefully. Very low shave angle, spine nearly dragging on the face. Stretch tight. Try two WTG passes. That will give you a comparison of edges while still using the same basic configuration as the straight razor. "Shave ready" straights are all over the board. Some guys enjoy a razor that is not so sharp but is more gentle. Some are not used to a very sharp razor. Some have never even shaved with a very sharp razor and would not want to do so. Some insist on the very sharpest edge possible, and rely on skill to get smoothness while the razor handles the sharpness. So yeah, a shave ready razor from a member or a recommended vendor would be an excellent addition to your den, but the shavette is more of a known quantity, sort of a universal standard.

Most edge failures are due to improperly set bevel. Next most common reason for a poor edge is too much pressure or misdirected pressure during progression and finish. The post finish treatment has the potential to greatly improve the edge once basic honing is mastered, but not before. If you can't set a bevel, further honing is a waste of time. If you can't get a good 8k edge, a 12k stone is a waste of money and even a 1u film is a waste of effort. If you can't get a good 12k or 1u edge, post finish on pasted balsa, even done correctly, is a waste of time and money. Achieving a truly great edge is a building process. Each stage requires that the stage before it be executed properly with all possible care and diligence.

A properly executed 8k edge can shave reasonably well. The 8k Norton was after all, the standard razor finisher, for a long time. At least in the U.S. and I guess Canada. It won't do well on the standard sharpness tests, and the shave will not be effortless. It will demand a bit of skill to get the requisite cutting power out of the razor. But it is a good milestone in your progress. If you can't shave off an 8k Naniwa, (or 3u lapping film) which is somewhat finer and higher quality than the 8k Norton, then there is no point visiting the next level of stone or film. Likewise, the pasted balsa.

Do take the time to read the linked threads (this is a lot of reading!) contained in the Newbie Honing Compendium, when you are ready to see what can be done to improve your edge.

Resetting the bevel repeatedly is a waste of steel. But you can afford to waste Chinese steel, so consider starting over again. Lead with the heel and this will help you to keep the shoulder from riding the hone. Your bevel must be at least nearly there, already, or you would not be so successful in your shave.

I hope you are honing in hand. It makes a difference, especially in the beginning of your honing journey. It helps you to quickly master pressure regulation and blade/hone alignment.

Bringing the shoulder up on the hone a time or two during honing is not the end of the world. If not done excessively, all it does is round up the toe a bit, maybe add a bit of smile at the end. Not a total deal breaker, but you must deal with it all through the progression if you want the toe sharp. However if the toe is not sharp, IMHO no big deal. Just makes the razor safer, like the round nosed scissors you used in first grade art class. I never worry overly much if the last 1/4" or so of the edge is not brilliantly sharp. As the rest of the blade wears, it will catch up, anyway, after a couple of decades.

Too many good things about this post. :a14:

I've learned that all we have to fear is fear itself. Not much is learned until you jump into the pool. As long as the life guard Slash et al is here, anyone can learn if they are so predisposed.
 
Keeping all the red stuff inside your face is the objective for your first few shaves. Closeness will come in time, with experience. The standard sharpness tests will tell you if the edge is holding you back or not, but typically at this stage your progress is held back simply by lack of experience and learned skills. The obvious solution to that is to shave again. And again. And again and again and again, and after 40 or 50 shaves you should have it pretty well nailed. At some point in that process, the quality of the edge becomes the main limiting factor.

Another good $9 purchase at this point would be a "Magic Razor" brand shavette from Sallys Beauty Supply. Get the type that uses half of a DE blade. Shave with that... carefully. Very low shave angle, spine nearly dragging on the face. Stretch tight. Try two WTG passes. That will give you a comparison of edges while still using the same basic configuration as the straight razor. "Shave ready" straights are all over the board. Some guys enjoy a razor that is not so sharp but is more gentle. Some are not used to a very sharp razor. Some have never even shaved with a very sharp razor and would not want to do so. Some insist on the very sharpest edge possible, and rely on skill to get smoothness while the razor handles the sharpness. So yeah, a shave ready razor from a member or a recommended vendor would be an excellent addition to your den, but the shavette is more of a known quantity, sort of a universal standard.

Most edge failures are due to improperly set bevel. Next most common reason for a poor edge is too much pressure or misdirected pressure during progression and finish. The post finish treatment has the potential to greatly improve the edge once basic honing is mastered, but not before. If you can't set a bevel, further honing is a waste of time. If you can't get a good 8k edge, a 12k stone is a waste of money and even a 1u film is a waste of effort. If you can't get a good 12k or 1u edge, post finish on pasted balsa, even done correctly, is a waste of time and money. Achieving a truly great edge is a building process. Each stage requires that the stage before it be executed properly with all possible care and diligence.

A properly executed 8k edge can shave reasonably well. The 8k Norton was after all, the standard razor finisher, for a long time. At least in the U.S. and I guess Canada. It won't do well on the standard sharpness tests, and the shave will not be effortless. It will demand a bit of skill to get the requisite cutting power out of the razor. But it is a good milestone in your progress. If you can't shave off an 8k Naniwa, (or 3u lapping film) which is somewhat finer and higher quality than the 8k Norton, then there is no point visiting the next level of stone or film. Likewise, the pasted balsa.

Do take the time to read the linked threads (this is a lot of reading!) contained in the Newbie Honing Compendium, when you are ready to see what can be done to improve your edge.

Resetting the bevel repeatedly is a waste of steel. But you can afford to waste Chinese steel, so consider starting over again. Lead with the heel and this will help you to keep the shoulder from riding the hone. Your bevel must be at least nearly there, already, or you would not be so successful in your shave.

I hope you are honing in hand. It makes a difference, especially in the beginning of your honing journey. It helps you to quickly master pressure regulation and blade/hone alignment.

Bringing the shoulder up on the hone a time or two during honing is not the end of the world. If not done excessively, all it does is round up the toe a bit, maybe add a bit of smile at the end. Not a total deal breaker, but you must deal with it all through the progression if you want the toe sharp. However if the toe is not sharp, IMHO no big deal. Just makes the razor safer, like the round nosed scissors you used in first grade art class. I never worry overly much if the last 1/4" or so of the edge is not brilliantly sharp. As the rest of the blade wears, it will catch up, anyway, after a couple of decades.
I love all these suggestions. I'm absolutely going to pickup that shavette and probably a second dollar, simply to keep practicing.

Thank you X 1000!



Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
A few links that might benefit you at this point.

First of all, the strop. You can buy. Or you can buy cheap.
Barber Leather Strop Straight Razor Sharpening Shave Shaving 2.5" X 25" LARGE | eBay

Or you can make.
The Gold Daddy Strop!

Here is The Method.
Newbie Honing Compendium

And some of the high points are in these threads:
HHT
Hanging Hair Test - home of the famous Belgian Coticule Whetstone

Treetop test
Is My Razor Sharp? The Treetopping Test

The burr method, which you are already familiar with.
Setting the Bevel with the Burr Method

The famous, epic, Lapping Film thread. It is long, but read it all, anyway.
Lapping film, try it.

Here is the magic part of The Method:
How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop

Finally, here is another thread not a part of The Method. When you meet the qualifications stated in the first post, you might consider getting in on this passaround, if you want to see what all the fuss is all about, regarding the pasted balsa strop.
Pass-Around! Two Modded GD Razors and a Pasted Balsa Strop

A cheap Gold Dollar #66 source:
Classic Pro Gold Dollar Shave Straight Edge Barber Razor Folding Hair Shaving | eBay
Don't get one. Get a dozen. Great fodder for modifying. The passaround razors are modified Gold Dollars.
 
A few links that might benefit you at this point.

First of all, the strop. You can buy. Or you can buy cheap.
Barber Leather Strop Straight Razor Sharpening Shave Shaving 2.5" X 25" LARGE | eBay

Or you can make.
The Gold Daddy Strop!

Here is The Method.
Newbie Honing Compendium

And some of the high points are in these threads:
HHT
Hanging Hair Test - home of the famous Belgian Coticule Whetstone

Treetop test
Is My Razor Sharp? The Treetopping Test

The burr method, which you are already familiar with.
Setting the Bevel with the Burr Method

The famous, epic, Lapping Film thread. It is long, but read it all, anyway.
Lapping film, try it.

Here is the magic part of The Method:
How To Use a Pasted Balsa Strop

Finally, here is another thread not a part of The Method. When you meet the qualifications stated in the first post, you might consider getting in on this passaround, if you want to see what all the fuss is all about, regarding the pasted balsa strop.
Pass-Around! Two Modded GD Razors and a Pasted Balsa Strop

A cheap Gold Dollar #66 source:
Classic Pro Gold Dollar Shave Straight Edge Barber Razor Folding Hair Shaving | eBay
Don't get one. Get a dozen. Great fodder for modifying. The passaround razors are modified Gold Dollars.
Thank you.

With regard to the strop, I was gifted one that was made by Straight Razor Design (they don't seem to be around anymore).

One of the strips is leather, the other is some brown fabric. It's not canvas. Maybe nylon? I'm not sure. I'm try and get a picture later.

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
I ordered seven more of those gold dollars BTW. Good advice + good deal...how do you ignore that?!?

I'm going to get some lapping film too. Seems like that's the route to go.

Anything to be mindful of when grabbing a granite or marble stone from Home Depot?

Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 

Slash McCoy

I freehand dog rockets
Read the threads first, to the end. As time goes on, techniques and materials evolve. Generally we find the best plate to be a 3/4" x 3" x 12" piece of acrylic, which also makes a great base for a balsa strop, so get four or more of them. Three will be for balsa. The threads explain all.
 
This is the strop I mentioned.

For funsies, these are my stones. I don't use that King (obviously) and the NANIWA arrived broken, so I sent it back and went with the cheaper 12k on the far right.

From left to right: 120/180k flattening; Winco (grit unkown) knife/tool stone (took a lot of work to flatten); brand unkown 1000/6000k stone; Kota 3000/8000; King 6000; offbrand Chinese 12k. Ragtag grouping, right?
proxy.php
proxy.php
proxy.php


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
 
This is the strop I mentioned.

For funsies, these are my stones. I don't use that King (obviously) and the NANIWA arrived broken, so I sent it back and went with the cheaper 12k on the far right.

From left to right: 120/180k flattening; Winco (grit unkown) knife/tool stone (took a lot of work to flatten); brand unkown 1000/6000k stone; Kota 3000/8000; King 6000; offbrand Chinese 12k. Ragtag grouping, right?
proxy.php
proxy.php
proxy.php


Sent from my Pixel 3 XL using Tapatalk
Nice set up. Everything looks so new...… I won't show you my shop....LOL.
 
Top Bottom