First Razor: R89 or Fatip Gentile?

[VerbaVolant]

Next week I'll be getting either the R89 or Fatip Gentile as my first DE razor.
...Which one should I go for and should I be worried about blade alignment issues on the Gentile?...

If I would have to chose between R89 and Fatip Gentile I would go for the RazoRock GameChanger.

Anyway, Fatip would be last on that list, R89 would be second from top, right after GameChanger. Materials or not, R89 is a fantastic razor and, in my opinion, perfect as a starter.

...Thank you for your help.

You are welcome.

 

[Raven Koenes]

Back to the OP's question; the Fatip Gentile vs. Muhle R89. When I look at the Gentile I think of a Gillette Old style. The R89 is a modern DE razor that is one of the top choices in a safety bar razor. No comparison.

Hey, King Gillette got it right the first time. He never made a better razor. I'm reminded of the time I talked to a Millennial about music. He said, "That Derek Domino guy didn't know how to play the guitar."

 

[Raven Koenes]

If I would have to chose between R89 and Fatip Gentile I would go for the RazoRock GameChanger.

Anyway, Fatip would be last on that list, R89 would be second from top, right after GameChanger. Materials or not, R89 is a fantastic razor and, in my opinion, perfect as a starter.

I haven't tried the GameChanger. I do know @Cal likes his very much. I also like his Shavemac handle on it.

I think as far as zamak disposable razors go the standard Merkur head beats out the r89/EJ89 head. I've also found that the Fatip Solid Bar Gentile beats out both of those hands down in smoothness and efficiency.

 

[Raven Koenes]

I own a Fatip Gentile, a Fatip Gentile Ulivo, a Fatip Grande, and a Fatip Gentile Nobile. Of those 4 razors, the first three all align the blade perfectly well. The Nobile on the other hand, I have had major problems with. The razor initially came with a head that was impossible to align (mind you I have been shaving with Fatip for 2-ish years, so not a novice) and the replacement head was just as bad. Others like Esox or Raven may own 10+ Fatips and have NEVER had one align as badly as what got from the Nobile.

Every time I here your Nobile story I feel so bad for you. I just really wish it would have worked out for you. BTW it is 20+ Fatips now. I also have two Fatip Nobile Black Tie Razors on the way from Connaught. I recieved two Fatip Nobile Horn razors from Connaught last week. I still haven't received the Black Tie razors yet. I'm starting to panic a little as they were sent on the same day at the same time.

I'm not trying to rub it in but my Nobile Horn has no alignment issues:

 

[dundak]

Following that theory, my Gillette NEW SC that has significantly more blade gap than my Fatip Grande, should be more efficient than my Fatip Grande.

Gillette NEW SC left, Fatip Grande right.
View attachment 944608 View attachment 944607

Blade gap and exposures.

NEW SC.
View attachment 944609

Fatip Grande.
View attachment 944610

Both have positive blade exposure. The SC has significantly more blade gap, but the Fatip is more than twice as efficient.

Gap does make a razor more effective, but in my opinion, blade exposure makes a razor far more efficient than blade gap, assuming, it's used at the proper angle.

As blade gap increases, so does the angle of skin against blade edge as your skin flows through that gap. Effectively creating a steeper shaving angle. A byproduct of that is increased pressure of the skin against the blade edge which also contributes to a more effective shave assuming pressure applied is a constant.

I dont personally like gap in a razors design and get a far smoother shave with less irritation with minimal to no gap. Using my NEW SC, 3 passes is the maximum my skin can tolerate. I've done as many as 5 full passes with my Grande and a Kai blade, all done ATG, and had no irritation whatsoever. As gap increases, for me, the faster the irritation of my skin grows.

The whole efficiency thing makes talking razors strange to me. My point was if he is a guy who shaves once a week smaller blade gaps may pose an issue because of clogging. To me all razors are efficient and can get me the shave I want, some just tend to bite more. Usually due to the angle you forced to use and/or huge blade gaps. But huge blade gaps are the new black in shaving.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I have the range of the Fatip razors. The Gentile is smoother than the others (by a small but significant margin) and only a very small amount less efficient.

I find it an excellent razor. In my hands it works better when I use it at a steep angle or at its design angle (neutral angle).

If you start with a Gentile it might well be the only DE safety razor you'll ever need.

The best blade for me is the Polsilver (sharp and smooth). Emphasis on smooth.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[gigetto]

R89 is quite good for daily shaves, Fatip Gentile in my opinion is very aggressive i don't use it anymore.

 

[steffenapelz]

I haven't tried the GameChanger. I do know @Cal likes his very much. I also like his Shavemac handle on it.

I think as far as zamak disposable razors go the standard Merkur head beats out the r89/EJ89 head. I've also found that the Fatip Solid Bar Gentile beats out both of those hands down in smoothness and efficiency.

I can vouch for the RR GC, as well. The original .68 gap is just about as smooth as the Gentile (not quite tho) but is significantly less likely to bite. The .84 gap is comparable in efficiency to the Fatip OC (Mk2) in its efficiency and smoothness, BUT due to the large blade gap, this one CAN bite pretty badly if one is in a hurry and careless about planting razor strokes gently on the skin. No other razor I own requires on average more alumn block after each shave ...the Fatip Grande does less damage IMO when one is in a hurry and makes a mistake. Both GCs are fantastic razors even if they shave very different from either Fatip or Muehle R89...

 

[steffenapelz]

Every time I here your Nobile story I feel so bad for you. I just really wish it would have worked out for you. BTW it is 20+ Fatips now. I also have two Fatip Nobile Black Tie Razors on the way from Connaught. I recieved two Fatip Nobile Horn razors from Connaught last week. I still haven't received the Black Tie razors yet. I'm starting to panic a little as they were sent on the same day at the same time.

I'm not trying to rub it in but my Nobile Horn has no alignment issues:
View attachment 944808

No worries...I am taking it in the spirit it was intended. I did get the handle in the end, which is what I really wanted anyway (if Fatip sold handles and heads seaparately), so no harm done.

 

[steffenapelz]

the shave I want, some just tend to bite more. Usually due to the angle you forced to use and/or huge blade gaps. But huge blade gaps are the new black in shaving.

Agreed. And I don't find they really work well as daily drivers for me, nor do I usually even get a closer shave...so in the end, just increased risk of blood, which is silly IMO. Therefore, I shave very little with the one larger gap razor I have...

 

[Raven Koenes]

The .84 gap is comparable in efficiency to the Fatip OC (Mk2) in its efficiency and smoothness, BUT due to the large blade gap, this one CAN bite pretty badly if one is in a hurry and careless about planting razor strokes gently on the skin. .

Ahhhh, so that's why Cal likes his GC .84!

 

[MM879]

I can vouch for the RR GC, as well. The original .68 gap is just about as smooth as the Gentile (not quite tho) but is significantly less likely to bite. The .84 gap is comparable in efficiency to the Fatip OC (Mk2) in its efficiency and smoothness, BUT due to the large blade gap, this one CAN bite pretty badly if one is in a hurry and careless about planting razor strokes gently on the skin. No other razor I own requires on average more alumn block after each shave ...the Fatip Grande does less damage IMO when one is in a hurry and makes a mistake. Both GCs are fantastic razors even if they shave very different from either Fatip or Muehle R89...

I agree with your understanding of blade protrusion/gap. "CAN bite pretty badly if one is in a hurry and careless about planting razor " When you understand this principle you can evaluate different razor designs better.

 

[Yod dropping fool]

Also have both the Fatip Gentile and the EJ DE89. Both are good razors and can provide an excellent shave. IMO, the Fatip gives a slightly smoother shave and there is more blade feel with the DE89. No alignment problems with my Fatip, but the finish on the DE89 is superior. FWIW, I've had the DE89 for over 5 years (used daily) and it's still in excellent condition.
Whichever the OP chooses - don't think they can really go wrong.

 

[Esox]

Others like Esox or Raven may own 10+ Fatips and have NEVER had one align as badly as what got from the Nobile.

Mine can go out of alignment pretty bad, but it seldom does. The picture below is the furthest out of alignment I can make mine.

Less than 5 seconds later its sorted out, but if loaded with the same process as outlined above in this thread its rare I need to realign the blade.

The difference so far as I know, and reason for the increased cost, is that while Jagger is a one piece cap, the Muhle has a brass insert for the thread.

I thought EJ made the same change. I posted this picture quite a while back and someone said they made that change. Zamak rots when the plating wears through.

But huge blade gaps are the new black in shaving.

Sadly yeah. A large blade gap isnt necessary.

BUT due to the large blade gap, this one CAN bite pretty badly if one is in a hurry and careless about planting razor strokes gently on the skin.

There is an advantage to having blade gap in that scenario. When I first got my Grande it planed off a high spot close to the right side of my mouth my first 7 shaves. I was use to using my NEW SC, which has gap. Because it has gap, when I got to the same place in the shave my Grande brought blood, my SC would warn me. The skin can bunch up in the gap and I could feel the tension of my skin increase as it flowed through the gap. My Grande with virtually no gap at all, doesnt give that warning.

The other thing I've learned is that no matter how little pressure you apply to your skin, there will be a 'wave' of skin ahead of the blade. It may be very small and quite likely is judging from the size of weepers that are occurring, but they can happen because that 'wave' has no distance to propagate into. The more pressure used, the taller that wave ahead of the blade becomes and the larger, and deeper, that weeper could be.

Think about the below pic and how waves propagate. The razor starting to move top left instigating that movement. The blue and/or red waves would be your skin surface ahead of the razor from the pressure applied. When those waves can no longer travel, they bunch up, you shave into and over them and plane off the tops creating a weeper.

This is why I was always getting a weeper right side of my mouth. The same spot every time. I'd be stroking from my ear towards the corner of my mouth. A wave of skin ahead of the razor and blade, and when I'd get to the corner of my mouth, that wave had no where to go, bunched up and I'd plane the top of that wave off just a tiny bit and get a weeper.

To overcome that I stretch my skin tighter and shave in a slightly different direction. Either slightly up or slightly down when I get to the same spot, but never straight into the corner of my mouth anymore. That wave needs a direction to travel in, so I gave it one. No more weeper there.

When that happens, the bigger the blade gap the bigger the bite of skin that gap can grab. The other side of that coin might be, the larger the gap the sooner you'll feel the tension of your skin increase warning you to slow down. That makes a razor more forgiving of mistakes in technique. My NEW SC is more forgiving than either my Grande or my Old Types.

My made in Canada Gillette Old Type has literally no gap at all and is one of my most unforgiving razors because if you make a mistake you feel absolutely nothing until you see the blood.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

I thought EJ made the same change. I posted this picture quite a while back and someone said they made that change. Zamak rots when the plating wears through.

View attachment 944922

If they have, I haven't heard about it, and mine appears to be the one piece casting - although I did get it several years ago. The only signs of deterioration on mine after being my primary razor for those years, are a few little pinprick blisters on the cap, which don't appear to be getting any worse at the moment.

 

[Esox]

If they have, I haven't heard about it, and mine appears to be the one piece casting - although I did get it several years ago. The only signs of deterioration on mine after being my primary razor for those years, are a few little pinprick blisters on the cap, which don't appear to be getting any worse at the moment.

Yeah the change could have been in the last year I suppose.

Clear nail polish should seal those flea bites in the plating if they're a concern. That would also work on the threads, assuming there enough play between them.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

Yeah the change could have been in the last year I suppose.

Clear nail polish should seal those flea bites in the plating if they're a concern. That would also work on the threads, assuming there enough play between them.

Nah, not a concern to be honest, Mike. I might need a replacement cap at some point, but they're £7.50 with 5 free Feathers thrown in. I don't mind paying the equivalent of that every few years for getting my preferred shave. Handle and baseplate still looks fine.

 

[hadzi.dado78]

R89 or Gentile? Gentile always.
Or GC .84 for $55

 

[AJ Monte]

Yes, loading the blade with the razor upside down just plain works.

I did not know there was another way to load a blade. My grandpa must have taught me well - hahaha. What is the method if not cap upside down?