First Gold Dollar Hone Attempt

[Ru4scuba?]

All,

Been awhile since I posted in the Str8 forum.

For there last few months I've been wanting to get into str8s again...but the effort to get my blades up to snuff (mailing them off to have someone else hone) has been keeping me back. Lately, I've been looking at a gold dollar I purchased a couple of years ago with interest. I really wanted to see if I could set the bevel and hone off my norton 4K/8K, crox paddle alone. Previously, I would always send out my razors for touch ups and honing for fear of ruining them...this has been the biggest drawback in the whole str8 experience IMHO...don't want to have to rely on someone else if I don't have to. I purchased the 4k/8k but as too timid to run my nice Dovos across them.

So I followed Lynn's method, available on YouTube of circle honing (40 cycles per side) for 3-4 cycles on the he 4k, followed up by 10-15 x strokes each time. Then I went back to the 8k for 40 circles one time per side) followed by 10-15 x strokes. After that, a test run off the arm proved to be still rough...I remember folks telling me these gold dollars needed work but we're good starter blades to try....first attempt seemed to prove that theory.

I went back and repeated the above, and added a 40 cycle run on each side (both 4k and 8k) with no pressure. I followed that up with 20 laps on the crox paddle and 100 linen/leather...the hairs were popping much easier on my arm.

Tomorrow morning I'll give it a test shave and post results!

 

[Doc226]

Setting a bevel on a factory GD on a 4K stone is going to take a LOOOOOOOOOOOOONG time.

Counting laps while honing is really not the way to do it, you need to look, feel and hear for the changes that tell you when the work on that stone is done.

Look at the scratches with a loupe, make sure they are reaching the edge and the previous stones scratches are being removed.

Feel the change that happens when the razors gets a bit sticky to the stone

You can also hear the changes.

 

[buca3152]

+1 on what doc said. A 600 or 1k chosera is more like it IMO. I started on a Norton 4/8 and after 2 hours on the 4k I decided to get a 1k stone. Your visual will tell you where you are so use the loupe or get one if you don't have one. I have 10x, 30x, and 60x but I almost always use the 10x. I find that its enough to see what I need to see. After the visual you still have to verify when the bevel is set either through arm hair test, thumbnail test etc.

 

[Seraphim]

Bevel setting a GD on a 1K hone is counted in minutes, not laps...

 

[blackhhawk]

Bevel setting a GD on a 1K hone is counted in minutes, not laps...

This is the truth. I start the gold dollars on a DMT 600 then move to 1k to finish setting the bevel. Even on the DMT 600, I spend a bit of time. I can't imagine doing it on a 4k

Also, out of my experience no real work needs to be done to the gold dollar. You might need to hone out some width inconsistencies but other than that you should be fine. The shoulder might get in the way a little but that's easy to work with.

 

[Acmemfg]

"This is the truth. I start the gold dollars on a DMT 600 then move to 1k to finish setting the bevel. Even on the DMT 600, I spend a but if time. I can't imagine doing it on a 4k"

Ha...I tried it once with a Double Arrow on a coticule. Not knowing the folly of my ways (and because that is all I had at the time) I experienced a TRUE sense of frustration indeed.

 

[buca3152]

Hone it heel leading sideways and bypass the shoulders and or stabilizerss if they are in the way.

 

[Ru4scuba?]

While I'm tempted to get a bevel setter, I want to start by making the edges right on my existing four str8s...to that end I have a loupe on the way to examine them so I know what I'm looking for.

That said...what am I looking for? What visual feedback are you looking for to ensure you have a quality bevel?

 

[SliceOfLife]

Circle honing is done because in theory it removes the most material by preventing scratches from each motion being parallel or (theoretically) following the same path.

This theory as I understand it has been disproven by guys who know metal better than I, but basically because of science and stuff, circle patterns may look more random to the eye under the scope, but they don't actually remove material -AT THE EDGE- any faster. You can do them if they're comfortable for you, but they really don't benefit you any.

If speed is what you want, then half strokes are the way to go. (back and forth on one side for a bit, then flip and repeat, rather than flipping every time you reach the end of the stone).


And yeah, counting strokes is for the birds. You'd do just as well to grab the little hourglass out of a game of pictionary and use it to time yourself.


And visual feedback for a bevel? Not really anything visual that I've found. I like the TPT. Basically drag the edge along the pad of your thumb without pressure, it should bite in just a hair and drag the same amount for the full length of the edge. If the drag is inconsistent at any point, you're not done.

As others have said, a 4k Norton's gonna take awhile to bevel a factory GD. Probably under an hour, but not by much. You could shave that down considerably if you're willing to use a lot of pressure. Or you could just pick up a cheap 1000grit king for <$20.
I did mine on DMT 220->600->1200 in a couple minutes each.

 

[Krodor]

While I'm tempted to get a bevel setter, I want to start by making the edges right on my existing four str8s...to that end I have a loupe on the way to examine them so I know what I'm looking for.

That said...what am I looking for? What visual feedback are you looking for to ensure you have a quality bevel?

It'll be straight....as a razor. Sounds funny, I know, but if you just go until you can pop arm hair to set a bevel, that's not enough. The edge can be all jiggy-jaggy on the microscopic level and still be sharp enough to do that...you'll see what I mean in the loupe:

• If you have razors that recently had a nice edge but have degraded a bit, strop them a few times then look at the edge in the loupe. It will likely be a nearly perfect line the entire length of the blade. That's what you're looking for.
  
• If you have an ebay special, dust off all the extra rust (ha!) and have a look at the edge. Typically there are little microchips (not the computer kind), little dings, gouges, etc that need to be honed-away.

Wish I had a 'scope with a camera so I could show you, but you'll see soon enough.

 

[Ru4scuba?]

It'll be straight....as a razor. Sounds funny, I know, but if you just go until you can pop arm hair to set a bevel, that's not enough. The edge can be all jiggy-jaggy on the microscopic level and still be sharp enough to do that...you'll see what I mean in the loupe:

• If you have razors that recently had a nice edge but have degraded a bit, strop them a few times then look at the edge in the loupe. It will likely be a nearly perfect line the entire length of the blade. That's what you're looking for.
  
• If you have an ebay special, dust off all the extra rust (ha!) and have a look at the edge. Typically there are little microchips (not the computer kind), little dings, gouges, etc that need to be honed-away.

Wish I had a 'scope with a camera so I could show you, but you'll see soon enough.

I think I see your point. After last night, I felt like I had a rough, but decent shaver for my first attempt...it was still pretty rough on the face. Nothing like the razors I've bought off the BST by trusted folks or VB honed str8s. I managed a full first pass all over the face and it felt so rough, I went to one of my str8s hone by a pro to finish...

First attempts being what they are, I'm happy I got by with a first pass...wish I would have cut more hair and not left a raw face afterwards, but hey...progress!

 

[Krodor]

this currently-running thread here:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...-on-razors-at-different-levels-of-degradation

shows many of the pictures that are in my head. (great photos guys!)

 

[Ru4scuba?]

this currently-running thread here:
http://badgerandblade.com/vb/showth...-on-razors-at-different-levels-of-degradation

shows many of the pictures that are in my head. (great photos guys!)

That's good stuff thanks for posting...but these guys have sexy camera set ups...can you see that with a simple set of Jewelers loupes I bought off Amazon? I bought a 10/20/30 loupe

 

[blackhhawk]

That's good stuff thanks for posting...but these guys have sexy camera set ups...can you see that with a simple set of Jewelers loupes I bought off Amazon? I bought a 10/20/30 loupe

I recommend going to radio shack and getting their 10 dollar microscope. It zooms in enough to see what you need to see. I generally look to make sure the edge is getting honed evenly. By looking at it, youll be able to see if part of the edge isn't making contact or if something is wrong. I also check and make sure i get the scratches from my dmt 600 out when I move to my 1k.

 

[bluesman 7]

That's good stuff thanks for posting...but these guys have sexy camera set ups...can you see that with a simple set of Jewelers loupes I bought off Amazon? I bought a 10/20/30 loupe

Not to say that blackhawk's microscope suggestion isn't a good one (I'll probably buy one of these myself) The truth is that if you can see problems with your 10x loupe, you don't need to look with the 20x. If you can see problems with 20x, you don't need to look with the 30x, and on and on. You can learn an awful lot with the loupes you have.

 

[Krodor]

I recommend going to radio shack and getting their 10 dollar microscope.

yup, that's the one I have. Works fine.
http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2179604

You'l be able to see enough, no problem.

 

[blackhhawk]

It took some getting used to as far as being able to find the edge easily and running the view up the edge. After that, I think its great. I keep it zoomed in all the way.

 

[Ru4scuba?]

Good stuff thanks for all the suggestions! Proving B&B is still a great place to be!

Second shave test today after an hour an hour on the 4k last night, followed up by CroX and a serious linen/leather strop. Got a pass and a half (maybe three quarters) before I put it down and went to the DE to finish. Still a bit rough and have some minor razor burn but it's definitely cutting rough stubble!

It mows down arm/leg hair very easily...but obviously the finishing touch isn't there...not smooth yet

 

[Ru4scuba?]

Just watched gssixgun's video on how to set a bevel and finish on a 4k/6k....tried it on the GD...feels pretty sharp...give it a go (at least in the cheeks and neck) tomorrow.

Face hasn't taken a beating like I've given it the last two days in awhile...but I'm determined to get this!

 

[Doc226]

Just watched gssixgun's video on how to set a bevel and finish on a 4k/6k....tried it on the GD...feels pretty sharp...give it a go (at least in the cheeks and neck) tomorrow.

Face hasn't taken a beating like I've given it the last two days in awhile...but I'm determined to get this!

Shaving off a 6k stone will be hard to do. You will have to max out every bit of smoothness and keenness out of that stone to deliver an acceptable shave IMO